Dragonball Kai (FUNimation English) Dub: General Discussion

[ohaimynameiserik]

When explaining how a planet is about to explode, "Need I give you a lesson in geology?" isn't THAT bad of a line. Not the best, but at least it's relevant.
Especially when it's being delivered by that oh so sexy Ayres Freeza...

[MR.Mark]

Seems perfectly in character for Freeza to say such a line anyway.

[Ashy-kun]

Sounds pretty accurate to Freeza's character to me. An attempt to talk down on his opponent and gain a bit of superiority over him again.

And, at the risk of starting something, I have to admit, even though I am a translater myself (or perhaps because I am), I actually don't mind some of the added lines still there in Kai. Now, in Z, when a LOT of the scripts were these sorts of lines? That's different. But in Kai, the script is generally accurate. However, my main point was going to be...

We're talking about aliens that inherently are able to speak Japanese, including Freeza who speaks with two variations. Formal and informal. And it's not like it's just a case of their language being translated to Japanese for the ease of the audience understanding. It's very clear that Freeza is speaking Japanese, as Gokuu understands pretty much his every word (except perhaps if Freeza says what would be the Japanese equivalent of "durr-hurr, he done said a big word", in English.)

Now, this would include certain phrases that make sense damn near exclusively in Japanese, and would include words that define things that Freeza wouldn't know about.

Here's an example. Let's say Freeza was particularly pissed off, and started firing on everyone, after coming back from the Energetic Ball. Let's say he said "Kisama no subete koroshiteyaru zo! Neko mo shakushi mo!" I would translate this as something like "I will kill every one of you! Every Tom, Dick and Harry of you!"

Now, you may say "How the hell would Freeza know that idiom? How would Freeza, who is accustomed to the naming structures of his own race and Saiyans, and yet perhaps none more, would know names of Earthlings, particularly English ones? He's never been to Earth." However, using that logic, you could say the same about the original line.

The idiom is "Neko mo shakushi mo" (One Piece fans may know "Shakushi" as the Japanese name for Captain Kuro's killer attack, where he zooms all over the place and carves up anything in his path - The pun in the name comes from this, though I won't explain the pun, as we'll go into a tangent). This essentially means "Every Tom, Dick or Harry", or "Every man and his dog". In other words, anything and everything, anyone and everyone.

However, literally translated the idiom is "Even cats and ladles as well". That is what the Japanese say, for their equivalent of "Every Tom, Dick and Harry". Those are the words they use. We translate them to a way we understand them in English, but there is no getting around the fact that in the line I made up for Freeza, he says "Even cats and ladles too!" Now, going by the logic of "How would Freeza know about the idiom 'Every Tom, Dick and Harry'?", think of it this way. Freeza's not been to Earth. Yes, we know. And yet he knows about the Japanese idiom, "Neko mo shakushi mo", despite the fact that it's highly unlikely that cats exist anywhere else than on Earth?

Basically, if Freeza's basically able to speak perfect Japanese, and say idioms like this, then how is it so bad that in English, he says similar idioms, like "The ball is in your court", or know about the study of rocks, geology? "Need I teach you about geology?"

[batistabus]

logic and Japanese insight

I think everyone who complains about the expressions should read this. Thank you.

Dammit...I have to remember to watch those episodes when i get home >.<

[DB_Fan1991]

Understandable, but that line threw me off a bit, but since it's Chris Ayres' Freeza it's not too bad, but had it been Linda's Freeza I would have said it was a stupid line. Schemmel's Goku was badass in these episodes a lot better than he was in season 3. Normally I don't mind his Kaio, but in serious episodes like these it really killed the emotion. Kai's dub makes me feel like Sean should have given up Kaio, but still awesome as Goku though.

[Mountain]

Understandable, but that line threw me off a bit, but since it's Chris Ayres' Freeza it's not too bad, but had it been Linda's Freeza I would have said it was a stupid line. Schemmel's Goku was badass in these episodes a lot better than he was in season 3. Normally I don't mind his Kaio, but in serious episodes like these it really killed the emotion. Kai's dub makes me feel like Sean should have given up Kaio, but still awesome as Goku though.

I agree. Being a huge fan of the Japanese version, I'm surprised how much I am digging the Kai dub. However, Kaio really does kill the vibe. It's a shame. Otherwise, nice work FUNi!

[Rocketman]

Basically, if Freeza's basically able to speak perfect Japanese, and say idioms like this, then how is it so bad that in English, he says similar idioms, like "The ball is in your court", or know about the study of rocks, geology? "Need I teach you about geology?"

Also Freeza saying "the writing on the wall" a few episodes back, which comes from the Bible's Book of Daniel.

[NeoKING]

The idiom is "Neko mo shakushi mo" (One Piece fans may know "Shakushi" as the Japanese name for Captain Kuro's killer attack, where he zooms all over the place and carves up anything in his path - The pun in the name comes from this, though I won't explain the pun, as we'll go into a tangent). This essentially means "Every Tom, Dick or Harry", or "Every man and his dog". In other words, anything and everything, anyone and everyone.

However, literally translated the idiom is "Even cats and ladles as well". That is what the Japanese say, for their equivalent of "Every Tom, Dick and Harry".

Don't mean to intrude on your epic Japanese translation 101, but wouldn't a more accurate translation of "Nekomoshakushimo" be "Everyone and their grandmother?" But then again, it's all arbitrary, so...

[obiwan23s]

Anyone else had problems getting episode 49 to play on the Nicktoons site? I use Firefox but I tried it over on Internet Explorer as well and it won't play the video. The player window comes up but that's it, the episode never starts. Episode 50 works fine but I don't want to skip ahead to it without seeing 49 first. It's not really a big deal to me because I've seen DBZ countless times, but I am enjoying watching the edited dub as it becomes available online and this is more or less an annoying hiccup that I feel I shouldn't be dealing with, just want to know if others are experiencing the same thing or if it's something on my end. I've had this happen a few times before on the Nicktoons site and it was usually corrected by the next day, this one seems to be lingering.

[Ashy-kun]

The idiom is "Neko mo shakushi mo" (One Piece fans may know "Shakushi" as the Japanese name for Captain Kuro's killer attack, where he zooms all over the place and carves up anything in his path - The pun in the name comes from this, though I won't explain the pun, as we'll go into a tangent). This essentially means "Every Tom, Dick or Harry", or "Every man and his dog". In other words, anything and everything, anyone and everyone.

However, literally translated the idiom is "Even cats and ladles as well". That is what the Japanese say, for their equivalent of "Every Tom, Dick and Harry".

Don't mean to intrude on your epic Japanese translation 101, but wouldn't a more accurate translation of "Nekomoshakushimo" be "Everyone and their grandmother?" But then again, it's all arbitrary, so...

True, but "Everyone and their grandmother" is essentially the same as "Every man and his dog/Everyone and their dog", and "Every Tom, Dick and Harry".

[NeoKING]

True, but "Everyone and their grandmother" is essentially the same as "Every man and his dog/Everyone and their dog", and "Every Tom, Dick and Harry".

Yeah, I know; that's why I said it's all arbitrary. It's up to whoever's in the drivers seat as to how they want to drive.

[Ashy-kun]

If it's abitrary, how can either choice be "more accurate". Sorry, pedantry in full force.

Anyways, dropping it so there's no arguments, I do have to wonder if I can find any actual examples from the original Japanese dialogue to support my argument. It does make it all a bit more solid, if I can provide an example of Freeza or someone similar using a phrase equivalent to one that would make people complain about it, if in the dub...

[Kienzan88gt]

Anyone else had problems getting episode 49 to play on the Nicktoons site? I use Firefox but I tried it over on Internet Explorer as well and it won't play the video. The player window comes up but that's it, the episode never starts. Episode 50 works fine but I don't want to skip ahead to it without seeing 49 first. It's not really a big deal to me because I've seen DBZ countless times, but I am enjoying watching the edited dub as it becomes available online and this is more or less an annoying hiccup that I feel I shouldn't be dealing with, just want to know if others are experiencing the same thing or if it's something on my end. I've had this happen a few times before on the Nicktoons site and it was usually corrected by the next day, this one seems to be lingering.

Yes, I too am having this problem on Nicktoons site. My guess is it's Christmas and the staff are probably not around since there's only a few more days left until the 25th. They'll fix it eventually, I've been enjoying the new episodes too.

[NeoKING]

If it's abitrary, how can either choice be "more accurate". Sorry, pedantry in full force.

Anyways, dropping it so there's no arguments, I do have to wonder if I can find any actual examples from the original Japanese dialogue to support my argument. It does make it all a bit more solid, if I can provide an example of Freeza or someone similar using a phrase equivalent to one that would make people complain about it, if in the dub...

Hmm... I'd say try the Freeza vs. Trunks fight, or maybe even King Cold vs. Trunks. But, it seems like the Japanese version of DB is full of idioms, so I don't think it'd be that hard.

[Ashy-kun]

Every time I think of Freeza vs Trunks, I always think of the one time that AnimeLabs could have actually arguably used the F-word, as Freeza blasts Trunks and shouts "Kutabare!" That said, I still would have used something more like "Drop dead!"

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Every time I think of Freeza vs Trunks, I always think of the one time that AnimeLabs could have actually arguably used the F-word, as Freeza blasts Trunks and shouts "Kutabare!" That said, I still would have used something more like "Drop dead!"

I'm more of a fan of "Go to hell!!" ^.^

Also, interestingly enough, wasn't it actually Trunks that said 「くたばれ！」 in the manga, instead of Freeza? Maybe Toei thought that was too rude for Trunks to say?

[obiwan23s]

Yes, I too am having this problem on Nicktoons site. My guess is it's Christmas and the staff are probably not around since there's only a few more days left until the 25th. They'll fix it eventually, I've been enjoying the new episodes too.

Thanks for confirming that. I don't get the Nicktoons channel so I'm stuck with streaming online until the BD's are released.

[dbgtFO]

Every time I think of Freeza vs Trunks, I always think of the one time that AnimeLabs could have actually arguably used the F-word, as Freeza blasts Trunks and shouts "Kutabare!" That said, I still would have used something more like "Drop dead!"

I'm more of a fan of "Go to hell!!" ^.^

Also, interestingly enough, wasn't it actually Trunks that said 「くたばれ！」 in the manga, instead of Freeza? Maybe Toei thought that was too rude for Trunks to say?

Yep, Trunks did say that.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

The anime did Trunks's transformation a lot different. It's so quick in the manga! So, it seems Freeza did steal Trunks's line, in the anime. Did Freeza even say anything when he blasted Trunks, in the manga?

Trunks usually speaks rather politely, but his speaking style was pretty rude, when talking to King Cold and Freeza (he even said the manly "ore" pronoun instead of "boku," like he later does). I wonder if Toriyama wrote him like that on purpose, since his was talking to a couple of scumbags anyway, or if he changed his mind on how Trunks would talk to enemies? I wish I had my manga, so I could check out how he speaks to #17, #18 and Cell...

[Piccolo Daimao]

Btw, in the Viz copy of the manga, after Trunks shouts, "Die!", Freeza retorts, "You're the one who's going to die!"