Why all the hate with Kai??

[TripleRach]

This thread, combined with the fact that I seem to get into a lot of arguments about it, inspired me to finally articulate my thoughts about Kai. (Spoiler: They're negative thoughts.)

I'd like to think I have fairly logical reasoning, and I'm probably not a screaming lunatic. So if you want something besides Youtube to bitch at, there's something.

And despite how this post may sound, I'm honestly just trying to add to VegettoEX's point. Nothing more.

[Gaffer Tape]

That was awesome and pretty much sums up my feelings on it as well, as I feel that we come from similar backgrounds and preferences (right down to Curtis Hoffmann's summaries). Hell, I'd love it if you wrote a lengthier piece on that, as a matter of fact.

[Mewzard]

If you're in it for the Japanese version, I can see reasons as to why you wouldn't like it or feel it necessary. Hell, I feel the same way since I have a few Dragon Boxes on my shelf now.

But, for the dub, it's above and beyond more important than Z will be until Funi eventually redubs it. I admit it, I have a problem...I'm a dubbie (no 12 steps for me). But joking aside, while I like several of the voices of the series, I always wanted more from the anime than Funi was originally willing to give. So, Kai's very important to me right now as a fan. It's giving me a dub I can be proud to enjoy as an adult. I can honestly say I love watching Kai every week it comes on Nicktoons, then again on DVD. I haven't been this excited about the series since I last finished the original anime for DB, Z, and finished the manga. It's almost like I'm watching it all over again for the first time. Come Hell or high water, I want Kai's dub to cover all of the Z material (it'll last me until Funi redubs it all...they must).

And do I take that to mean we'll never see you review another set of Kai in English?...I knew I shouldn't have gotten my hopes up. But how can I not? I feel like a new fan again, only with old fan knowledge.

[AoiKageNoChikara]

First of all TripleRach.

That was a very good explanation of your issues with Kai, I don´t agree in much though, but
It´s a great thread you did, I actually prefer this rants over Video rants, you can put much more thought making it and of course much more thought into reading it. I´m actually glad you didn´t fill it up with Foul Speech Like many critics i´ve watched.

The things I agree...

1: Some Reanimated scenes look ackward
2: The pacing is better
3: They should have started with DB, why do I agree? because that way they could go improving for a much longer time that they had Beginning From Z, Quality would get better and Of course, much more music and space to make it more Legendary, that way people would stop complaining about the music when The anime Begins with the Saiyan Arc. and of course, pacing would be even better.

Things I don´t agree...

1: You talked as if ALL Reanimated scenes were amazingly bad when they are not, I do agree some look bad, but let´s remember Z doesn´t always look well either. and Some Reanimated Scenes look amazing, and no one can deny it, Like every Reanimated Scene When Cell became perfect, When Vegeta Charged his final flash, I do agree that some stick out very much but I can take them because that to me is a glymps of how a new Db Anime would look, Also you say the Quality doesn´t surprise you, Well I actually had a glymps of a dbkai dvd quality, not even blu ray and it looked amazingly clear to me.

2: Here again Downgrading Kai´s Score, Kai has many great compositions too bad they are the most underated, I won´t deny Kikuchi made some outstanding compositions for Z, but it´s extremely unfair that Kai gets treated to the very best treatment like just a decent Score, But I guess I don´t even need to defend it, I´m happy Enjoying Kai´s Score, I respect all opinions, but I won´t deny many disturb me, Beign the most disturbing one for me The treatment the Score Is given, I´m a musician, not a profesional but I am, And I get shocked when people Downgrade every single track in Kai against the most generic Kikuchi or faulconer´s score.

3: "Kai is just not good enough following the Manga" People complain That Kai goes to fast sometimes, and if they left more filler or canon material in They would complain that´s it´s 2 slow, Kai 2x faster than Z, to me that´s a great thing, and the closest they could do to perfection, Since they Actually started in Z, would you rather have it begin at Goku arriving at Kame House with no prologue, no db explanation, No Bardock vs Frieza Beginning? I don´t think it would be so clever.

About Gregory and Ginyu Bulma, Gregory is a filler character yes, but he´s too integrated to the Anime to be left out, Same with Ginyu Bulma, I´m satisfied with them beign faster, and
let´s remember Goku´s Flashback Before Doing the Kamehameha 20x is filler, would you have the rather gorgeous filler beign Butchered out when it´s so integrated to the anime? it would look very very bad, Like The First blow exchange of Freeza and Goku inside the Dust Cloud at the very begining of the fight, butchering out that flashback would be more dissapointing,

4: Complaining about the Frieza Introduction... Forgive if I´m rude with My reply but.... Why the hell would anyone complain about that? Please, It´s like if you are searching every single detail to complain on it, Dbz had flaws too, every anime has flaws, Everything has flaws, Complaining about everything will only bitter yourself, and that´s not recommendable.

And Finally "Its very existence is an insult to my intelligence"... Does that mean I am An idiot for Watching Kai and Liking it better than Z? That proves to me you actually tried and search for every single detail to complain in, If I were to do that with every anime, I would get depressed and turn over to American Cartoons, Because I don´t even try to find any goodness in Anything, and that´s clearly what you are doing, atleast for me, and if that´s a rushed analysis I made, My apologies, I´m not the greatest Scientific on earth, I can commit Mistakes.

Well that´s all I have To say I think, I hope I haven´t lost anything important, I guess this covers all the points I agree and don´t agree.


Now... To webmaster VegettoEX...

I won´t Lie I haven´t watched all the video because I can´t my internet is quite slow now and I don´t have much time...

Though My english is not perfect, and my apologies If I got you wrong, I understand you say This guy is beign rude and Extremely Closed minded... Again Forgive me If I got you wrong, I´m trying to be as respectful as I can here with everyone (and if you are a webmaster I guess you can delete the hell out of my account if I make you mad and I still need to discuss) but to me this guy TheBeardOfPower is actually exposing his points very well, he´s not beign rude and his talking not about anyone who likes dbz better.... he talks about the haters and there´s quite a difference, he even uses "That´s My Opinion" When saying Kai is better, he´s beign very polite, and top of all, he says he respects anyone´s opinions if they like Z much more by nostalgia, ect. he´s only ranting about the haters, in fact, the very same haters he speaks of show their true colors disregarding the fact they are giving him the reason.


Mmmm not always we search on youtube, we´re all here discussing about the same thing
aren´t we? also we got Kanzentai and some other db sites (for me Latino sites too) and you have to agree that you can´t despise information sources.



BTW Mewzard I agree with everything you say.

[PuppetDoctor]

I don't want to turn this into a thread about "TheBeardofPower" but he can be a real jerk towards people who comment on his videos. He isn't the nicest of guys at times and if he doesn't like your comment then he will flame you.

Now back on topic here.

I don't hate Dragon Ball Kai but it seems like for me over time I am beginning to dislike it. Maybe its because I am watching each episode three times (Japanese, Nicktoons broadcast, and CW4Kids broadcast). It seems like for me the more I watch it the more I dislike the show.

Especially, now watching the Freeza episodes on Nicktoons I am realizing I really dislike Kai. The English voices are excellent (minus Kaio and maybe Tenshinhan who sounds bored) but I just do not like the new score minus a few tracks. It seems like most of Kai's score is generic and there isn't a lot of time it seems for silence. While I find there is silence its just not as much in the Dragon Ball Z dub.

My other big issue is the redrawn scenes. Some of them just look downright awful and there are so many of them in the Freeza saga. It is just very annoying and takes you out of the moment.

Those are my biggest issues with Kai and for that reason I wish that Funimation would re-dub DBZ with their new cast. I love Kikuchi's score and it would be nice to be able to listen to an accurate dub with his score.

[AgitoZ]

This thread, combined with the fact that I seem to get into a lot of arguments about it, inspired me to finally articulate my thoughts about Kai. (Spoiler: They're negative thoughts.)

Interesting read but I have a bone to pick with you and many others.

The only legitimate/arguable points I found are; New animation feels out of place, pacing is better, and some actors performances. Yes most new animation is bad, but some is decent, all of it still sticks out like sore thumb. The actors are pretty old at this point so I can't complain about certain performances, but some newer stunt casts are unforgivable. They're at least trying, and most of the time they are good performances.

But my biggest gripes are Kai's music and comparing it to DBZ. All who look at the music always compare it to something, praising the other then giving a back handed compliment to Kai's music. Kai's music is never talked about on it's own. I feel the music is good it fits in the DB universe.

You complain you dislike Kai because it doesn't follow the manga well enough. You've also said you dislike the additions that were added to DBZ, but still enjoy it. You also said Kai's pacing is a plus. Yet you still say it can't replace DBZ. I get it you love DBZ, it's what you're used too. But don't say DBZ is better. Kai tells the story much better and faster. Is it perfect? No, but it's much better than DBZ. There are more things to nitpick about DBZ than Kai. If you like the manga and think it's superior it is, fine. But don't use it against Kai and then say DBZ is better.

Many points being brought by people are good to say to explain why you dislike Kai. But don't use them to say it sucks.

Also I hope I interpreted you're article correctly. It was very well written, although I wish you went more in-depth.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, see, that's the problem. These are opinions. You can't tell Rach not to say that DBZ is better any more than you can tell someone that Kai can't be called better. Of course she can think that. And of course you can think the opposite. You can use reasoning to back up the arguments (which both of you do), but at the end of the day, none of this is empirical. I admit I found it a bit silly when you told her that she can't say that DBZ is better because DBKai is clearly better. Well, no... that's basically saying that you believe your opinion to hold a higher empirical value than hers. And that just doesn't really work.

[AgitoZ]

Well, see, that's the problem. These are opinions. You can't tell Rach not to say that DBZ is better any more than you can tell someone that Kai can't be called better. Of course she can think that. And of course you can think the opposite. You can use reasoning to back up the arguments (which both of you do), but at the end of the day, none of this is empirical. I admit I found it a bit silly when you told her that she can't say that DBZ is better because DBKai is clearly better. Well, no... that's basically saying that you believe your opinion to hold a higher empirical value than hers. And that just doesn't really work.

I assume you mean this?

But don't say DBZ is better. Kai tells the story much better and faster. Is it perfect? No, but it's much better than DBZ. There are more things to nitpick about DBZ than Kai. If you like the manga and think it's superior it is, fine. But don't use it against Kai and then say DBZ is better.

I guess I should have worded it better. I meant Kai told the story better than DBZ. Sorry for any confusion.

[Turtle Marked Stone]

I dislike Kai because of the new terrible stunt casting. I like Kai because it tells the story better then Z ever could. The middle ground is the dub I suppose.

Also I hate Youtube and everything on it and wouldn't take much of anything seriously on there either.

[TripleRach]

1: You talked as if ALL Reanimated scenes were amazingly bad when they are not, I do agree some look bad, but let´s remember Z doesn´t always look well either. and Some Reanimated Scenes look amazing, and no one can deny it, Like every Reanimated Scene When Cell became perfect, When Vegeta Charged his final flash, I do agree that some stick out very much but I can take them because that to me is a glymps of how a new Db Anime would look, Also you say the Quality doesn´t surprise you, Well I actually had a glymps of a dbkai dvd quality, not even blu ray and it looked amazingly clear to me.

2: Here again Downgrading Kai´s Score, Kai has many great compositions too bad they are the most underated, I won´t deny Kikuchi made some outstanding compositions for Z, but it´s extremely unfair that Kai gets treated to the very best treatment like just a decent Score, But I guess I don´t even need to defend it, I´m happy Enjoying Kai´s Score, I respect all opinions, but I won´t deny many disturb me, Beign the most disturbing one for me The treatment the Score Is given, I´m a musician, not a profesional but I am, And I get shocked when people Downgrade every single track in Kai against the most generic Kikuchi or faulconer´s score.

3: "Kai is just not good enough following the Manga" People complain That Kai goes to fast sometimes, and if they left more filler or canon material in They would complain that´s it´s 2 slow, Kai 2x faster than Z, to me that´s a great thing, and the closest they could do to perfection, Since they Actually started in Z, would you rather have it begin at Goku arriving at Kame House with no prologue, no db explanation, No Bardock vs Freeza Beginning? I don´t think it would be so clever.

About Gregory and Ginyu Bulma, Gregory is a filler character yes, but he´s too integrated to the Anime to be left out, Same with Ginyu Bulma, I´m satisfied with them beign faster, and
let´s remember Goku´s Flashback Before Doing the Kamehameha 20x is filler, would you have the rather gorgeous filler beign Butchered out when it´s so integrated to the anime? it would look very very bad, Like The First blow exchange of Freeza and Goku inside the Dust Cloud at the very begining of the fight, butchering out that flashback would be more dissapointing,

4: Complaining about the Freeza Introduction... Forgive if I´m rude with My reply but.... Why the hell would anyone complain about that? Please, It´s like if you are searching every single detail to complain on it, Dbz had flaws too, every anime has flaws, Everything has flaws, Complaining about everything will only bitter yourself, and that´s not recommendable.

And Finally "Its very existence is an insult to my intelligence"... Does that mean I am An idiot for Watching Kai and Liking it better than Z? That proves to me you actually tried and search for every single detail to complain in, If I were to do that with every anime, I would get depressed and turn over to American Cartoons, Because I don´t even try to find any goodness in Anything, and that´s clearly what you are doing, atleast for me, and if that´s a rushed analysis I made, My apologies, I´m not the greatest Scientific on earth, I can commit Mistakes.

Well that´s all I have To say I think, I hope I haven´t lost anything important, I guess this covers all the points I agree and don´t agree.

1) I do remember Cell's transformation looked pretty good, but some good does not excuse some bad. This is the second time they're working with this footage, so if they're actually creating more ugly scenes, then they're doing something very wrong.

2) I just don't like Kai's music as much as the original score. It's not as interesting or memorable to me. I don't think I need a degree in music to feel that way.

3) Yes, I would have liked that. A lot of American fans started the story that way and did just fine.

4) I complained about it because it's not there in the manga. Plain and simple. But to get into detail, they've introduced Freeza as someone powerful enough to destroy the Saiyan home planet before they've even introduced Raditz. It hurts the subtle buildup of powerful enemies, from Raditz to Nappa to Vegeta, and then on to Freeza and his men. We don't need to see Freeza that soon. It's also incredibly silly to explain Gokuu's alien heritage right before Raditz was going to explain it anyway.

5) My problem is with the overall production and purpose of the series. That's what I find stupid. I didn't say people who liked Kai were idiots.

You keep trying to write me off as someone who does nothing but look for things to complain about, but that is not at all what I was trying to do. I made general complaints based on memory. Just because I don't like some things doesn't mean I'm not capable of liking anything.

You complain you dislike Kai because it doesn't follow the manga well enough. You've also said you dislike the additions that were added to DBZ, but still enjoy it. You also said Kai's pacing is a plus. Yet you still say it can't replace DBZ. I get it you love DBZ, it's what you're used too. But don't say DBZ is better. Kai tells the story much better and faster. Is it perfect? No, but it's much better than DBZ. There are more things to nitpick about DBZ than Kai. If you like the manga and think it's superior (it is), fine. But don't use it against Kai and then say DBZ is better.

Many points being brought by people are good to say to explain why you dislike Kai. But don't use them to say it sucks.

"What I'm used to" is not the reason I prefer DBZ. I prefer it because it's a genuinely more enjoyable audio-visual experience, which is the biggest selling point of a manga-to-anime adaptation, for me anyway. Without the good audio-visual experience, it has nothing over the manga, so I may as well just read that instead. That was my point.

"Better" and "sucks" are subjective terms. There's no reason I or anyone else can't use them if we genuinely think that way.

[Cipher]

But my biggest gripes are Kai's music and comparing it to DBZ. All who look at the music always compare it to something, praising the other then giving a back handed compliment to Kai's music. Kai's music is never talked about on it's own. I feel the music is good it fits in the DB universe.

Ah, but this is where I disagree entirely. Kai's soundtrack is fine on its own. It does everything competently. I've listened to some tracks on their own via Youtube and a good chunk of them are quite catchy. On it's own, it's nothing amazing, but nothing offensive. My problem is that it doesn't fit the Dragon Ball universe. It's the same problem I've come to have with the Faulconer Productions score over the years. I like a lot of it, but it's just not Dragon Ball.

When I say Kai's score is generic, it's not because it necessarily sounds like any other current shonen anime. It's because its approach is simply generic. Listening to it on its own, there's no way I could ever pinpoint what genre it's meant to accompany, besides guessing "action." Listening to it on its own, I would never be able to say, "It sounds like it goes with a B-movie martial arts kind of thing." Even if Kikuchi's scores play similarly to each other, when I listen to his Dragon Ball tracks on their own, that's eactly the vibe I get. Even on their own, I would be able to pick up something of the series' genre and tone from listening to them.

Not so with Yamamoto's score, decent though it is. It's an arguably fine soundtrack, but it's not necessarily Dragon Ball.

You complain you dislike Kai because it doesn't follow the manga well enough. You've also said you dislike the additions that were added to DBZ, but still enjoy it. You also said Kai's pacing is a plus. Yet you still say it can't replace DBZ. I get it you love DBZ, it's what you're used too. But don't say DBZ is better. Kai tells the story much better and faster. Is it perfect? No, but it's much better than DBZ. There are more things to nitpick about DBZ than Kai. If you like the manga and think it's superior it is, fine. But don't use it against Kai and then say DBZ is better.

But it's kind of impossible to judge Kai on its own, when the problems you're talking about are a direct result of it poorly handling the footage it uses from Z. This person clearly doesn't love Z; they love the manga. I really think TripleRach hit the nail on the end when she called Kai an adaptation-of-an-adaptation. In the end, I think that prevents it from capturing the separate experiences of either Z or the manga. It loses a lot of what makes Z what it is, be it the soundtrack or the filler or the overall approach. At the same time, it still falls pretty far from the manga. So what is it? That doesn't mean it's god-awful or unwatchable, but that does mean I'm unlikely to make it my preferred way of experiencing the story.

But I can understand as well that for some people it's the only watchable version of a Dragon Ball anime out there right now. If you're really hard up to see the series in motion and this is the pacing required for you to do it, I get that. But that's also the only capacity in which I could truly recommend it over either the original anime or the manga.

Many points being brought by people are good to say to explain why you dislike Kai. But don't use them to say it sucks.

Maybe because no one's actually trying to say it sucks? They're just trying to explain why they dislike it, or at least like it less than either Z or the manga. Why does liking something else better have to mean it sucks?

There's nothing truly awful about Kai. It's just that, unless you fall into the niche of people who need to see moving pictures and can't stomach the original anime's pacing, I'm going to point you toward one of the other versions. Were it an entirely separate anime adaptation that actually brought something new to the table, my feelings would likely be different. But that's not what it is.

I'm seeing one point brought up over and over again in this thread, and it's this:

Kai isn't perfect, but it's still faster than Z, so it must be objectively better. Obviously for a lot of people the pacing does not make up for the loss of other aspects, and it still isn't the fastest version of the story available. Basically, I'm seeing a lot of points brought by people which are good to explain why they like Kai. But don't use them to say it's superior.

[penguintruth]

The problem with Kai's soundtrack isn't that it's nessarily bad. In fact, some of it is quite good. And you can't even argue that it's any more overused than Kikuchi's pieces. The problem is, it's very... how should I put this? It's kind of limited-sounding, and quiet, and a little anemic at times.

As for Kai in general, this is what I said on Funimation's forums, and I think I've said it here, too:

My thought on Kai is this: It's an ingredient, not a meal.

You add it to DBZ here and there to supplement it. Saiyan arc DBZ, Freeza arc Kai, or Saiyan arc Kai, Freeza arc DBZ, or little bits and pieces of DBZ Saiyan arc, little bits and pieces of Kai Saiyan arc, and so forth. Mix and match, match and mix. I want to have a faster way of getting through the Freeza arc, but I want to hear Kikuchi's music during the Super Saiyan transformation. So I watch DBZ on the Dragon Boxes, in Japanese, of course, since the dub is awful. Or maybe I want to hear Sean Schemmel's best stuff, so I put in Kai to hear his "I am the Super Saiyan, Son Goku!" and then take out the disc and put in the Dragon Box disc. Or maybe I want to watch Kai for the Freeza arc, but I want the filler flashbacks to King Vegeta, so I watch that on the Dragon Box and then put back in Kai.

I'd watch Kai exclusively if it had Kikuchi's score and some of the little pieces of filler I liked, or if it were completely reanimated. But that's me. If I would recommend a way of watching DBZ to new viewers, it would be Kai all the way, because they aren't used to the fillers so they won't miss any, and they aren't used to the Kikuchi score, so they won't miss that either. They won't even miss the VAs from either version that aren't in Kai. There's an English dub done well enough that I won't have to warn them about it. Kai is a chance for a new generation to pick up DBZ.

But for me, it's an ingredient. And a pretty good one.

[Ringworm128]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3PJhpO3Mp4 I think this guy says all that needs to be said.

I don't need to watch the video -- reading the person's flaming, rude, and illogical comments gives me all I need. Someone disagrees with him? They're a "fanboy", and so just dismiss them outright. Done.

Why do you people keep turning to YouTube for anything DBZ-related? I don't turn to Fox News for engaging and intellectual discussion of copyright reform.

Its part 2 I realy should have posted basically he said the reason all the hate is going towards Kai is because it ruind there ilusion of what DBZ is. It ruind there belief that Freeza was some Over the top sterotype vilian it ruind there belief that Krilin was a mere comic relief character it ruind there belief that DBZ is HARDCORE and all the characters are badass and its ment to listend to with Rock Music etc. In short all the Fanboys are raging cos they cant stand to see DBZ how it was originally intended.

[TheGreatness25]

I hate reading Youtube comments because they never have anything insightful to add. They're either going to be a broken sentence praising the video (for example: "OMG luv it!!!") or a whole laundry list of why the people dislike it. I personally think that someone who dislikes the video has more of an incentive to post a comment as opposed to someone who liked it. It's like when you shop at a store. If you're satisfied, do you fill out those comment card things? Probably not. But if you're dissatisfied, you have a lot more of an incentive to fill one out. But I move on.

Here's why a fan of the original Japanese version of Z might dislike Kai:
1) Too fast-paced at times (jumping from one scene to the next)
2) Grown too fond of the original score
3) The original Z was beautifully performed and the new vocals cannot surpass or maybe even match them (I personally like Nozawa's original Z work more than her Kai work)

I don't know, those are just some complaints I heard.

Here's why a fan of the dub might dislike Kai:
1) New Gohan, Bulma, Freeza, etc.
2) No Faulconer-esque score
3) Different dialog than the original dub

You have to remember that whereas many people appreciate and love the changes that the dub of Kai made, the fans who are true dub fans love the score and whatnot. To them that is their DBZ experience and when that is compromised, they do not approve of it.

I mean general reasons to dislike Kai are the lack of filler (hey some people like them) and whatnot. What I really think it is, is that it's something... different? Many people loathe "different."

I'm not a huge fan of Kai, I don't watch it on TV, but I do get the Blu-rays. I don't love it, but I don't despise it either. It's hard for me to sit down and watch the Japanese version of it though because... I don't sit down to watch it seriously. I just kind of have it on in the background as I go online and whatnot (like what I'm doing right now actually lol) and don't want to be bothered trying to read everything. If I had to go and rewatch the whole series though, I'd probably prefer to do it with Kai because of how much shorter it is. I think I suffered through the extremely long DBZ episodes that have 10 seconds of fighting per episode too many times.

My advice to you though is to not pay attention to what those on Youtube say. The fans that you can categorize with are on Forums like this, not on Youtube.

[AoiKageNoChikara]

I´m back at replying! (though I feel very sick and exhausted due to my Final exams week haha)

First To TripleRach (I actually enjoy this argument a whole lot)

1: I actually Agree, No Good thing excuses a bad thing, and it´s true it´s the 2nd time Toei Has used this footage but they have never reanimated it, we don´t know what needs to be done to this scenes to look new, I remember watching a fullscreen clip in HD of Dragonball Kai, one of the badly made reanimated scenes didn´t look so bad there, but I will give this one to you, no problem, I´m not right on this one but I´m not entirely wrong, There may be badly made reanimated scenes, but Dbz had it´s problems, and I accepted them, Would you give me a reason to not accept any flaw in Kai? I´m not even trying to state that Kai is perfect, no, I´m just trying to say it´s not the garbage everyone tells about it, and learn a bit why people hate it.

2: True, Very true, But My problem is... why does people dislike Kai´s Score? only because they prefer Kikuchi? I do think Kikuchi´s Score is Overall More memorable than Z, but why? because we had it for all episodes of Original DB and DBZ, there was varius themes that were rearranged varius times in the series, but why? because there was a hell more episodes, more time to grow to love the score, is it fair to put Kai´s Score to shame because of That? I mean, it's extremely unfair, ever since the beginning of Kai there´s been this mass disgust for the score, Calling it bad from the first episode (which didn´t even featued half of the score in the first cd) is that fair? I don´t think so, if people don't like Kai´s Score it´s not because it´s generic or less memorable than Z. it´s because people don´t even want to like it.

3: Again, I think you are beign unfair to Kai, Dbz beign our beloved original should have to making like the manga in the first place, was there even a reason to add Those filler episodes just at the beginning? I don´t really agree much on what people say that filler adds texture to the original, I´m usually against filler, but Dbz has all the dragonball saga to back it up, if just after episode 153 of Dragonball they had moved to roshi´s house in Z´s first episode, there wouldn´t be much of a shock becuase the last episode just ended with an adventure, but Since Kai begins when Z takes in, going directly to Roshi´s house would feel very rushed, and then again, If I accepted some mistakes in Z, why would I not Accept them in Kai? you say you are a manga purist, yet you seem to dislike the fact that Kai doesn´t began with Goku Entering Kame House but goes faster to it, yet you accept In Z that it doesn´t begins with Kame house and it moves 2x slower to it.

4: I´m not arguing with this one, I accept your opinion, I guess there´s no need for a little prologue for a retelling of Dbz for newcomers, You want Kai to be perfect, but is there anything perfect? Is there any anime that Strickly follows the manga step by step? and what´s more, at the end of the Day Kai´s not even for us, but for new generations, who don´t know who the hell is frieza or Goku, Dragonball Kai doesn´t start it´s action until episode 3, Many anime now begin with a bang, and that´s what the new generation likes, I like Kai´s Begining because it doesn´t not only Give Info On DB, but Starts with a bang so newcomers are interested, and That will no only lead them to Kai itself but to All the db Franchise, but I guess that doesn´t even matter. (sorry if this reply was a little rude)

5: Good to know, Thanks for explaining,


Well my apologies, But I was decieved by the fact the only good thing you found good on Kai was the pace and later you even said that even with that it´s not worth it, I would consider that kind of dislike toward the movie, But I like To see the good side of things, If people learned to enjoy rather than Criticized, everyone would end up winning, I agree Kai´s not perfect, there are many flaws like every other thing including original Z, but if one doesn´t try to find goodness, they´ll never find it.


Now to Answer to Cipher...

I don´t find what´s the problem, mmm You say there´s nothing amazing to it, and I am amazed at that comment right there, I will tell you why it´s not Dragonball For you, because you don´t let it be Dragonball, if people opened to Kai, they wouldn´t call it generic, even if they liked Z So much better, saying it´s nothing amazing, leaves me just speech-less What is "A Mighty Foe"? "A Tough Struggle" wouldn´t someone say these are examples of bad composition skills and that they´re not great? You guys, Sorry if I´m rude, but for me it´s like you are trying to say even the worst of Z´s ost is better than Kai´s best Track

Now I do get the "Dragonball Feeling" but don´t you think calling Z the reminiscent of a lame b-movie is a bit insulting? well for me is, and well, it´s a bit confusing to me, "Z´s Score is better than Kai´s Because it sounds like a Kung fu b-movie"... really wowie to my head

Wouldn´t one then think Kai´s atleast very good to have a fresh air in comparison to the other soundtrack? to me it´s a double epic win, Since I love both Kai and Z, where Z Fails Kai Wins and when Kai fails Z wins,

"But it's kind of impossible to judge Kai on its own, when the problems you're talking about are a direct result of it poorly handling the footage it uses from Z. This person clearly doesn't love Z; they love the manga. I really think TripleRach hit the nail on the end when she called Kai an adaptation-of-an-adaptation. In the end, I think that prevents it from capturing the separate experiences of either Z or the manga. It loses a lot of what makes Z what it is, be it the soundtrack or the filler or the overall approach. At the same time, it still falls pretty far from the manga. So what is it? That doesn't mean it's god-awful or unwatchable, but that does mean I'm unlikely to make it my preferred way of experiencing the story."

Exactly! THat´s what I´m trying to say, Kai´s not the greatest thing ever to happen in all creation, but it´s not the garbage everyone says. unfortunately,Almost no one seems to really enjoy a single feature in Kai,

I actually agree much more on what you wrote after this, This is the kind of Replies I like, not the usual "this is bad and that is bad, and it´s the worst thing ever" even if someone liked Dbz better I just want them to accept Kai´s features, not like the superior ones, but as a good alternative to the Series.


penguintruth I agree with you, some parts of Kai´s OST Feel quite bland, especially at the first 2 arcs (getting better by time to time) and at the first arcs there were some really overused tracks, in this is what the Kikuchi Score really flared, in a vast selection of music for the show Though no one can deny Android´s saga score in kai is really good, the editing Goes better and Like I said before, where Z fails Kai Wins, and viceversa

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

This thread, combined with the fact that I seem to get into a lot of arguments about it, inspired me to finally articulate my thoughts about Kai. (Spoiler: They're negative thoughts.)

I agree with pretty much everything you said, TripleRach. The only reason I'm following Kai is because of the FUNimation dub. I've already seen the show in Japanese and now I can see the show in English the way the creators intended.

[MetaMoss]

Why the hate with Kai? Sometimes, people just need things to hate, so they hate on the closest thing to them. Or anything that might change a minute detail of their childhood. But seriously, Youtube? My personal rule #1 of the interwebz:

Under no circumstances should you even pay attention to Youtube comments. Studies show 85% of Youtube commenters are trolls and/or dusches anyway.

So, some people hate Kai? Same thing with everything else in the world. Even puppies. I know, its shameful.

[Cipher]

Now I do get the "Dragonball Feeling" but don´t you think calling Z the reminiscent of a lame b-movie is a bit insulting? well for me is, and well, it´s a bit confusing to me, "Z´s Score is better than Kai´s Because it sounds like a Kung fu b-movie"... really wowie to my head

Dragon Ball's not like a b-movie? I must have been watching the wrong series.

[Fox666]

I myself don't like Kai.

They simply wanted to made the series avaiable for HD. However, since animation is expensive for Toei standards, they simply did some vetorial strokes with coloring over an old animation.

They did not even took care in removing the fillers or made the series fast pacing, that was just a marketing strategy of sort to illude fans.

Toei at all won't waste money with animation if fans are gonna watch it and buy DVDs no matter what... that how Toei has always been.

[MR.Mark]

They did not even took care in removing the fillers or made the series fast pacing, that was just a marketing strategy of sort to illude fans.

Um, no, while the editing hasn't always been brilliant for Kai, it's been more than competent. To the point where arguing that Kai is sloppy is utterly moot and downright hypocritical. As not only is Kai faster paced, the story is more coherent than the Z adaption ever was.