Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[dbgtFO]

Sorry, but I don't see why this is different. If we think that the original King Piccolo had a battle power of 220, and now Piccolo has millions...

What do you mean? Are you agreeing with me that your earlier comment(below) was wrong?:

You know that is not true. Kami fusion goes to a random number. I see it possible that if Piccolo fused with Kami instead of Nail, he would go instantly somewhere near the power he had against 17.

I don't think that is the case. To understand that line, you must read the entire chapter.

The chapter (and the one before that) goes on something like this:
• <Trunks arrives and find #19 head>
• Trunks: "Who is that fatass androids??"
• <Piccolo beat the crap out of #20>
• Kuririn: "OMG Piccolo so incredible, he is not even SSJ"
• Piccolo: "WTF this android defeated SSJ Trunks... does the future changed and this android is weak, or we became too strong?"
• <Trunks arrives>
• Trunks: "Guys, I don't want to sound mean... but this old hag here is not the androids that defeated me"
• Everybody: "Whaaat??"

Reading the chapter, my conclusion is that Kuririn was mistaken, simply like that. Everybody believed that #20 was the android that defeated Trunks. So Kuririn's line makes complete sense even if Piccolo was nowhere close to the level of a Super Saiyan.

If Krillin thought Piccolo was stronger, than Trunks due to Piccolo beating #20 up, he would have given an indication of him not sensing Piccolo accurately, but he didn't and his comment stands: Piccolo has a power only Super Saiyans are supposed to have.

And I should remember to not take serious the reactions of beings like Kuririn and Tenshinhan. The SSJ level is so beyond their comprehension they wet their pants if they see anyone with a power like that.

Krillin sensed USSJ Vegeta was stronger than #17 absorbed Cell, he sensed Cell's hidden powers, which Vegeta & Trunks couldn't and he also sensed, that Trunks has even more dormant power hidden underneath the surface. On all accounts he was right.
For sure we shouldn't trust a power statement from Krillin...

[Fox666]

What do you mean? Are you agreeing with me that your earlier comment(below) was wrong?:

Sort of. But I am confused now

Krillin sensed USSJ Vegeta was stronger than #17 absorbed Cell, he sensed Cell's hidden powers, which Vegeta & Trunks couldn't and he also sensed, that Trunks has even more dormant power hidden underneath the surface. On all accounts he was right.
For sure we shouldn't trust a power statement from Krillin...

Does there exist such kind of thing as sensing hidden transformation power?

I thought that Kuririn just realized that Trunks was holding back some hidden power based on his behavior (as Kuririn and Trunks were quite close to each other)

[dbgtFO]

Krillin sensed USSJ Vegeta was stronger than #17 absorbed Cell, he sensed Cell's hidden powers, which Vegeta & Trunks couldn't and he also sensed, that Trunks has even more dormant power hidden underneath the surface. On all accounts he was right.
For sure we shouldn't trust a power statement from Krillin...

Does there exist such kind of thing as sensing hidden transformation power?

I thought that Kuririn just realized that Trunks was holding back some hidden power based on his behavior (as Kuririn and Trunks were quite close to each other)

Chapter: 383 (DBZ 189), P6.2, P7.1-2
Context: after saying Cell is hiding his true power
Kuririn: “Just like you are, Trunks…[ ] I suppose Vegeta hasn’t noticed just due to the way he is, but I can tell somehow…You’re…restraining yourself for Vegeta…You’ve surpassed the wall which Vegeta couldn't overcome…Am I wrong?”

Interpret it however you want...

[Rocketman]

"Power only Super Saiyans are supposed to have" just means it's above 3,000,000.

[dbgtFO]

"Power only Super Saiyans are supposed to have" just means it's above 3,000,000.

Or it's above Kaiokenx20, since Goku wasn't a SSj by that point.

[Rocketman]

Or it's above Kaiokenx20, since Goku wasn't a SSj by that point.

Piccolo doesn't have the Kaioken.

[dbgtFO]

Or it's above Kaiokenx20, since Goku wasn't a SSj by that point.

Piccolo doesn't have the Kaioken.

Okay.. then I could just say that it's above 50% Freeza, since Freeza isn't a Super Saiyan.

[p123]

Piccolo arriving on Namek should be around Gohan's power. A power that Gohan can't even dream about and is enough to help out against Freeza. I would think 200-300k would be the best range for Gohan and Piccolo. Piccolo fusing with Kami should double his power based on that, and seeing how strong he is in the Androids Saga this is a common belief nowadays.


Piccolo during the Trunks Saga has no fear of Vegeta whatsoever, Piccolo does not challenge people or talk crap to those he cannot oppose. He only chooses to fight when he feels he can win, if he cannot win, he does not bother to even attempt to fight back he knows it's a losing cost. Piccolo during the Trunks Saga is certainly above Vegeta's power against Freeza. Perhaps Piccolo is even stronger than all of the Base Saiyans by this point. Seeing how 3 years later he is a SSJ level opponent, the massive gains logically started once he fused with Nail. Seeing how he was in strict training for a whole year, he likely got massively stronger than he was on Namek in only a year...


Piccolo during the Androids Saga is stronger than the power he felt from SSJ Trunks. Piccolo is well aware that Trunks is nothing to the androids , yet he does not lack in confidence going in to fight against them. I personally put Piccolo a couple of shades above Yardrat SSJ Goku...


Piccolo Post Rosat, which would only have been one year of training I would place somewhere between Imperfect Cell and Semi Cell. Kamiccolo Pre Rosat is nowhere near Imperfect Cell, Cell tanks Piccolo's massive attack with ease. Piccolo is stated to grown a level post rosat, but still knows he's nothing. Not to mention he says he feels that Semi Cell's power is unnatural and does not feel he could ever be stronger than him. Not to mention the Base Saiyans implications in the Buu Saga which would suggest that he is weaker than even them.

[Senzu_Bean]

Piccolo got that strong in those three years because he trained with Super Saiyan Goku. Nail doesn't have anything to do with it.

And Piccolo is strong enough to hold himself to a Cell Junior.

[p123]

Piccolo got that strong in those three years because he trained with Super Saiyan Goku. Nail doesn't have anything to do with it.

That's never implied. We just know Piccolo got uberly powerfully. Piccolo's potential going through the roof post Nail is the logical choice. If Piccolo never merged with Nail and attained SSJ like power, it would be awfully hard for AT to explain why that happened, when Piccolo always had trouble keeping up with Base Saiyan power...Obviously the training with Goku was helpful, but even without Goku Piccolo should be in the 100 millions... If it was all about Goku, then Gohan should logically be SSJ level as well in Base since he trained with a SSJ and a SSJ level opponent as well right?

And Piccolo is strong enough to hold himself to a Cell Junior.

Yea I guess the Cell Jrs were holding back on him a little more. Maybe another page or two Piccolo would have been face down as well. Not really important, Piccolo is never really showcased fully throughout the battle. It's just people nitpicking since there's not much about Piccolo power post rosat - Buu Saga. And people take two minor panels and ran crazy with it.

[Senzu_Bean]

That's never implied.

Considering a cover panel shows Piccolo training with Super Saiyan Goku and the only reason the fighters increased in power was due the training it is indeed very implied.

Yea I guess the Cell Jrs were holding back on him a little more.

Why would it hold back to a point his opponent can fight back? There is really no other way around it:

Chapter: 407 (DBZ 213), P5.3
Context: as the Cell Juniors beat everyone up
Cell: “If you don’t show your true worth soon, things will go past the point of no return. Look closely. Vegeta or Trunks are barely fighting evenly…Even Son Goku is in trouble, having lost his stamina…”
Note: Cell says that “Vegeta ya Trunks” are fighting evenly; ya is a non-exhaustive word for ‘and’, meaning the things listed aren’t necessarily the only things there are to list. In other words, Cell’s line doesn’t necessarily mean that nobody but Trunks or Vegeta are fighting evenly, just that they’re the first examples to come to mind

[Piccolo Daimao]

Piccolo got that strong in those three years because he trained with Super Saiyan Goku. Nail doesn't have anything to do with it.

Nail actually could have something to do with his potential for power development. I'll draw you to the example of when Goku came back to Earth and asked who defeated Freeza, he asked if it was Piccolo first. Not Vegeta first, Piccolo. Think about that for a moment.

I think Piccolo became that strong in those three years because of a combination of Nail pushing his potential for power development, pushing himself harder to keep up with Super Saiyan Goku's strength and having sparring partners.

[Senzu_Bean]

The only thing Nail did to Piccolo was pushing him over one million. Period!

Naturally since Piccolo (and Vegeta) are the the strongest after Goku this would ask them if they killed Freeza and his father. Him asking Piccolo first and then Vegeta is irrelevant. Probably the green guy was close to him than Vegeta.

[Senzu_Bean]

A revision of my comparison list of battle powers:

VS Raditz

Raditz
> Gohan
>> Goku
> Piccolo
>> Tenshinhan
>> Kuririn
> Yamcha
> Yajirobe
> Chaozu
> Kame-sennin

VS Vegeta

Vegeta
>> Goku
>> Nappa
> Piccolo
>> Tenshinhan
> Kuririn
> Yamcha
> Gohan
>> Yajirobe
> Chaozu

VS Freeza's soldier

Ginyu
>> Goku
>> Ginyu's Force
>> Vegeta w/Zenkai
> Zarbon Transformed
>> Vegeta
> Zarbon
> Dodoria
>> Gohan
> Kuririn
>> Gurd

VS Freeza

Goku Super Saiyan
> Freeza Full Power
>>> Goku
= Freeza Suppressed
>> Vegeta Zenkai
> Freeza 2nd Transformation
>> Piccolo
> Freeza 1st Transformation
>> Freeza Untransformed
>> Vegeta
> Gohan
>> Kuririn

VS Revival Freeza

Goku Super Saiyan
> Trunks Super Saiyan
>> Freeza
> King Cold
>>> Goku
> Trunks
>> Vegeta
> Piccolo
>> Tenshinhan
> Gohan
>> Kuririn
> Yamcha

VS Artificial Humans arc

Trunks Super Saiyan 3rd Grade
> Cell Heavily-suppressed
>> Vegeta Super Saiyan 2nd Grade
> Trunks Super Saiyan 2nd Grade
>>> Cell Semi-Perfect
>>> Artificial Human #16
= Cell Imperfect
>>> Super Piccolo
= Artificial Human #17
> Artificial Human #18
>> Vegeta Super Saiyan
> Goku Super Saiyan
> Trunks Super Saiyan
> Piccolo
>>> Artificial Human #20
> Artificial Human #19
>>> Vegeta
> Goku
> Tenshinhan
> Trunks
> Gohan
> Kuririn
>> Yamcha

VS Cell Games

> Gohan Mad Super Saiyan 2
= Cell Powered-up
>> Cell Power-weighted
> Cell Full-powered
>> Cell Suppressed
> Gohan Full-powered Super Saiyan
> Goku Full-powered Super Saiyan
>> Cell Jr.
> Vegeta Full-powered Super Saiyan
> Trunks Full-powered Super Saiyan
>> Piccolo
>>> Gohan
> Goku
>> Vegeta
> Trunks
> Tenshinhan
> Kuririn
>> Yamcha

VS Babidi's fighters

Goku Super Saiyan 2
> Vegeta Super Saiyan 2
>> Dabura
> Gohan Super Saiyan 2
> East Kaioshin
>> Goku Super Saiyan
> Vegeta Super Saiyan
> Gohan Super Saiyan
>> Piccolo
>> Trunks Super Saiyan
> Goten Super Saiyan
>> Yakon
> Goku
> Vegeta
> Gohan
>> Tenshinhan
>> Trunks
> Goten
> Kuririn
>> Yamcha
>>> Pui Pui

VS Majin Buu arc

Vegetto Super Saiyan
>>> Majin Buu Evil Merged w/Gohan, Piccolo, Trunks & Goten
> Majin Buu Evil Merged w/Gotenks & Piccolo
>>> Majin Buu Pure Powered-weight
> Gohan The Mightiest Warrior
>> Majin Buu Evil Merged w/Piccolo, Trunks & Goten
> Gotenks Super Saiyan 3
= Majin Buu Evil
>> Goku Super Saiyan 3
> Majin Buu Pure
>> Gotenks Super Saiyan
= Majin Buu Innocent
>> Vegeta Majin Super Saiyan 2
>>> Vegetto
>> Gotenks
>> Goku
= Vegeta

[Piccolo Daimao]

The only thing Nail did to Piccolo was pushing him over one million. Period!

Naturally since Piccolo (and Vegeta) are the the strongest after Goku this would ask them if they killed Freeza and his father. Him asking Piccolo first and then Vegeta is irrelevant. Probably the green guy was close to him than Vegeta.

How do we know merging with Nail didn't give him other benefits too? Piccolo gained Nail's knowledge too, who's to say it didn't boost his potential for power growth? Training with a Super Saiyan isn't magic. Of course training with someone much more powerful than you is going to make you work harder in order to keep up with them, but even then, there has to be other aspects to make you as strong as Piccolo was.

And Goku asking Piccolo first does matter, because Goku would ask the strongest person he knows. It's not about which one was closer, because he asked Piccolo if it was him first and if it was Vegeta.

[Rocketman]

Considering a cover panel shows Piccolo training with Super Saiyan Goku and the only reason the fighters increased in power was due the training it is indeed very implied.

So why was Gohan irrelevant versus the Androids? He trained with a Super Saiyan AND a fused Namek and has more potential than either.

[Senzu_Bean]

... there has to be other aspects to make you as strong as Piccolo was.

Plot. And be green.

So why was Gohan irrelevant versus the Androids? He trained with a Super Saiyan AND a fused Namek and has more potential than either.

Plot, Gohan is a kid and Saiyans' norm only can get that strong. The fact is Gohan training with Goku and Piccolo should have been quite stronger than Krillin and as far as we know both of them are pretty useless compared to everybody but Yamcha.

[Piccolo Daimao]

... there has to be other aspects to make you as strong as Piccolo was.

Plot. And be green.

I'm just saying merging with Nail could've boosted his potential for power growth, and that's a valid theory.

[Senzu_Bean]

... there has to be other aspects to make you as strong as Piccolo was.

Plot. And be green.

I'm just saying merging with Nail could've boosted his potential for power growth, and that's a valid theory.

If such merging didn't automatically made him gain power besides the one he did on Namek then I agree.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I'm just saying merging with Nail could've boosted his potential for power growth, and that's a valid theory.

If such merging didn't automatically made him gain power besides the one he did on Namek then I agree.

I don't quite understand what you're saying.