Best death

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Piccolo Daimao
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Re: Best death

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:29 pm

Godo wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Godo wrote:[...]but people tend to like Vegeta's more for some strange reason.
I think it's a combination of:
More screentime
More Character development
&
The whole deal with Vegeta starting out, as this evil bastard, who finally started to fight for someone other than himself.

Also the buildup was much better, than when Chaozu selfdestructed. Chaozu just did it without having any buildup for it at all.
Chao-zu did have some screentime before Z. He was an established character at that point. So when I read it, it was a teardrop moment. I actually mourn more for his death there than Vegeta the bastard.
Vegeta was just a more developed character and his death was more built-up. Realising the errors of his ways after becoming Bobbodi's servent and contributing to Boo's resurrection, his self-destruction appeared to hit a note more than Chaozu's self-destruction.

Chaozu had screentime before Z, but he's not as developed. He's always just been Tenshinhan's little buddy. Chaozu doesn't have a lot of fans. Vegeta has a lot of fans. Not to mention his self-destruction had no build-up.
Last edited by Piccolo Daimao on Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Best death

Post by Godo » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:42 pm

dbgtFO wrote: Well yeah, he was an established character, but he hadn't really done much noteworthy beforehand and didn't have any real character development IMO, as opposed to Vegeta going from what he was in the Saiyajin Arc to what he became in the Boo Arc.
Although those examples I listed didn't actually apply to what I feel about the characters. That's just some examples for why people in general prefer Vegeta's self destruction over Chaozu's.
Chaoz bore his and Tenshinhan's lovechild. That in itself makes his death more emotional.
Seriously, even though I know why people prefer Vegeta's death, I don't understand why. He never was a likeable character, and his death suited him fine.
Piccolo Daimao wrote: Vegeta was just a more developed character and his death was more built-up. Realising the errors of his ways after becoming Bobbodi's servent and contributing to Boo's resurrection, his self-destruction appeared to hit a note more than Chaozu's self-destruction.

Chaozu had screentime before Z, but he's not as developed. He's always just been Tenshinhan's little buddy. Chaozu doesn't have a lot of fans. Vegeta has a lot of fans. Not to mention his self-destruction had no build-up.
Chaoz did also realize his errors. He left his martial arts school because it was focused into making it's pupils into assassins.
Even though he isn't that developed, he should have more fans than Vegeta IMO. But then we are speaking about a series where all the strong guys are the coolest, so Chaoz is quickly forgotten.
Simply, Vegeta looks cooler, and is stronger, and to be honest, his character development isn't that much to hang on the tree.
I mean, compare it do Piccolo; the spawn of a demon who becomes good, and then we have Vegeta, a spoiled prince...and what irks me more is that often Vegeta's sacrifice gets more roses than Piccolo's.

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Re: Best death

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:55 pm

Godo wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Well yeah, he was an established character, but he hadn't really done much noteworthy beforehand and didn't have any real character development IMO, as opposed to Vegeta going from what he was in the Saiyajin Arc to what he became in the Boo Arc.
Although those examples I listed didn't actually apply to what I feel about the characters. That's just some examples for why people in general prefer Vegeta's self destruction over Chaozu's.
Chaoz bore his and Tenshinhan's lovechild. That in itself makes his death more emotional.
Seriously, even though I know why people prefer Vegeta's death, I don't understand why. He never was a likeable character, and his death suited him fine.
Piccolo Daimao wrote: Vegeta was just a more developed character and his death was more built-up. Realising the errors of his ways after becoming Bobbodi's servent and contributing to Boo's resurrection, his self-destruction appeared to hit a note more than Chaozu's self-destruction.

Chaozu had screentime before Z, but he's not as developed. He's always just been Tenshinhan's little buddy. Chaozu doesn't have a lot of fans. Vegeta has a lot of fans. Not to mention his self-destruction had no build-up.
Chaoz did also realize his errors. He left his martial arts school because it was focused into making it's pupils into assassins.
Even though he isn't that developed, he should have more fans than Vegeta IMO. But then we are speaking about a series where all the strong guys are the coolest, so Chaoz is quickly forgotten.
Simply, Vegeta looks cooler, and is stronger, and to be honest, his character development isn't that much to hang on the tree.
I mean, compare it do Piccolo; the spawn of a demon who becomes good, and then we have Vegeta, a spoiled prince...and what irks me more is that often Vegeta's sacrifice gets more roses than Piccolo's.
Well, you summed it up perfectly. Vegeta's cool, strong and has more development than Chaozu. Chaozu is Tenshinhan's little buddy who doesn't do much at all.
Holden Caulfield in [b][i]The Catcher in the Rye[/i][/b] wrote:I hope to hell when I do die somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something. Anything except sticking me in a goddam cemetery. People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday, and all that crap. Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

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Re: Best death

Post by dbgtFO » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:58 pm

Godo wrote:Chaoz bore his and Tenshinhan's lovechild. That in itself makes his death more emotional.
Seriously, even though I know why people prefer Vegeta's death, I don't understand why. He never was a likeable character, and his death suited him fine.
But Freeza was the one responsible for making Vegeta so unlikeable, so it's not Vegeta's fault! He only wanted to do good in the world and live happily with his father!!! :lol:

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Re: Best death

Post by Rocketman » Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:29 pm

Godo wrote:Chaoz did also realize his errors. He left his martial arts school because it was focused into making it's pupils into assassins.
No, he left because Tien did.
I mean, compare it do Piccolo; the spawn of a demon who becomes good, and then we have Vegeta, a spoiled prince...and what irks me more is that often Vegeta's sacrifice gets more roses than Piccolo's.
Piccolo was magically less evil from his birth, becomes good by beating a child, and the anime stretches things out so much his sacrifice doesn't make sense.

Also you have to like Gohan before you can really like Piccolo dying for him. Same reason nobody cares about Tien dying for Chaozu.

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Re: Best death

Post by rereboy » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:08 pm

Godo wrote:
rereboy wrote:
Chiaotzu is just weird... Besides Tenshinhan, nobody likes him. Not even Toriyama.

And the Saibaimen were designed to be owned.
I like him. He is cute.
Really? Would you like to meet him in a dark alley?

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Re: Best death

Post by Godo » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:48 pm

rereboy wrote: Really? Would you like to meet him in a dark alley?
It depends on the setting. If he is smiling and whispering crazy stuff, I would have shat my pants.
Otherwise I would be more like "aww, how cute" and be killed the instant later.

Rocketman wrote: No, he left because Tenshinhan did.
He didn't want to paralyze Goku to begin with. He had already at that point walked away from the path.
Rocketman wrote: Piccolo was magically less evil from his birth, becomes good by beating a child, and the anime stretches things out so much his sacrifice doesn't make sense.
Vegeta was about as evil as Piccolo was at his birth. He became "good" after neglecting his child, spending time with him training, still not giving a shit about him until he died, and yet again he became evil 7 years later, just to sacrifice himself again for that same child (remember his outburst against Cell).
Vegeta is like Piccolo but 10x worse in character and flaws. At least Piccolo proved more useful in almost every arc.
Rocketman wrote: Also you have to like Gohan before you can really like Piccolo dying for him. Same reason nobody cares about Tenshinhan dying for Chaozu.
Says who? I am not a great Gohan fan myself, but I like his sacrifice there. I am not a great Chaoz fan either, but I like his sacrifice too. Also, I am really not a fan of Goku either (I think that he is a little bit too cocky), but I like his sacrifice at the end of the Cell Games.
It's not about who one sacrifices oneself for, but for what reason.
Vegeta was like "ah, hell, I am about to die and don't want to go to hell, better try to make the best out of it". Buu being released was his fault, after all.
Gohan being attacked wasn't Piccolo's fault, and stupid Gohan not killing Cell off in time wasn't Goku's fault, and neither was everyone getting pummeled Chaoz's fault.

Vegeta's sacrifice was something he fully deserved, something he saw coming, and nothing to be even remotely sad over.
Hell, I felt more sad over Vegeta's death at Namek than in the Buu Arc. In the Buu Arc he had made too many mistakes and had too many idiot moments to be even likeable.

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Re: Best death

Post by CatouttaHell » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:50 pm

Tenshinhan's death, especially in the Japanese, was by far the most touching for me.
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Re: Best death

Post by Gozar » Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:59 pm

Kuririn in DragonBall. Hands down. It's the only death in all of DragonBall that every made me cry. Even though the death itself isn't much to speak of, the emotion that Masako Nozawa brings in the scene is absolutely stellar. It was the first ever major death in DB and it's probably the only time we ever see Goku get emotional (Meaning visibly "sad" rather than just pure anger) over a death.

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Re: Best death

Post by Shiyonasan » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:02 am

Hmm...so many impactful deaths in the series...

I think I'll have to go with Gohan's death in the alternate future. Trunks' reaction to his death in that gloomy, mellow scene while the rain is pouring down just creates the impact in that scene for me. Takeshi Kusao's performance in this scene is top notch as well. After that, his biggest role model was gone and all he had left was his mother. Definitely a very sad death...

Honorable mention goes to Kuririn's death at the end of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. Watching that part for the time was something else. I was definitely not expecting a scene like that in Dragon Ball.

Also, this death doesn't get mentioned often, but Chi-Chi's death in the Buu Arc when she gets turned into an egg and then gets smashed by Buu is pretty sad too. Poor Goten probably never ate eggs again after that...

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Re: Best death

Post by Kingdom Heartless » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:26 am

Chiaotzu is just weird... Besides Tenshinhan, nobody likes him. Not even Toriyama.
Wait, Toriyama doesn't like Tenshinhan?
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Re: Best death

Post by Cipher » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:46 am

Kingdom Heartless wrote:Wait, Toriyama doesn't like Tenshinhan?
Ya I read it in an interview once.

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Re: Best death

Post by rereboy » Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:29 am

Kingdom Heartless wrote:
Chiaotzu is just weird... Besides Tenshinhan, nobody likes him. Not even Toriyama.
Wait, Toriyama doesn't like Tenshinhan?
I said that Toriyama doesn't like Chiaotzu (because of how little he does in the series). Only Tenshinhan likes him.

Obviously I was somewhat kidding.

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Re: Best death

Post by Godo » Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:21 pm

Shiyonasan wrote: Honorable mention goes to Kuririn's death at the end of the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai. Watching that part for the time was something else. I was definitely not expecting a scene like that in Dragon Ball.
Thumbs up to this one. When I read it for the first time, it was pure shock to me to see someone from the good side actually dying. Add Kame Sennin and Chaoz to that too, and we got a dark arc.

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Re: Best death

Post by Rory » Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:00 pm

Kuririn's death at Freeza's hands was always powerful in my eyes.
It's probably Tanaka's performance, there's something about the point where he explodes where it just seems so... brutal, sounds kinda' like "GOKUUUUU-AA!!".
Just sounds fuckin' painful, imploding.

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Re: Best death

Post by Wobbuffet » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:29 pm

I would say Shen Long's death.
I watched that when I was a kid, and I was like "What the hell, is that even possible? Everybody is doomed!"
That scene really scared me.
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Re: Best death

Post by In Brightest Day » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:28 pm

I know a lot of people hate the guy, but I'm going to go with Yamcha's death in the Saiyan arc. Not that it was really built to or anything, but thats the beauty of it. It was just so out of nowhere and really set the tone for what was going to be a very violent, long drawn out battle. Kuririn's reaction is what REALLY did it for me, though. While you always knew they were relatively close, it came across as Krillin had just lost a brother, which was also evident in his subsequent domination of three of the other Cultivars.

Very powerful scene as far as setting the tone for what the rest of the arc was going to be.

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Re: Best death

Post by Rory » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:05 pm

In Brightest Day wrote:I know a lot of people hate the guy, but I'm going to go with Yamcha's death in the Saiyan arc.
Who hates Yamcha?

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Re: Best death

Post by In Brightest Day » Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:41 pm

Just a lot of Dragonball fans in general. He gets a lot of unnecessary bullshit.

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Re: Best death

Post by Ussj Future Trunks » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:08 am

Well I don't like him because his personality is unlikeable but he also seems very useless. In DB he never got past the quarter finals then he gets killed by saibamen etc.
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