"Sparking!" - Official "I Have It" Topic

gallagtor · Post by **gallagtor** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:04 am

lost in thought wrote:
gallagtor wrote:I dont pretend to be an expert on this kind of thing, but I can't really think of any conflicts that could come from fixing the voices.. It should detect that and change the voices when it loads your save data. I know what you mean when you say that by fixing one bug usually leads to another, but that's usually in game, right? The menu screens don't seem to be that complex to me, but that's just my assumption.
See, it's all coding. One line of code can, and usually does conflict another. In the source of a videogame there is no distinction between "the game" and "the menu", they are all done through various lines of coding, to generate the desired action, appearance, and anything else the developer might wish to add to it.

There is little and no distinction between in game, and out, since everything you see is generated by carefully written functions that do what they are supposed too. So if a bug appears, the developer evaluates it, and what it affects, and if it needs to be mended - the developer will make a "work around" for it, to mend it (for example, if you have any experience with the browser Internet Explorer, you should know that it is almost entirely uncompatible with damn near every client-side scripting language, so then people who wish to increase compliance, will make workarounds for client side coding, so people can develop their websites to function properly in IE,) but 9 times out of 10, whenever you patch a bug, you're invariably creating another bug.

So the end result is, you've got to weigh the pro's and con's of your actions before you commit to them, because there will always be a new bug, when you patch a previous one. It all comes down to conflicts in your coding, and generally it just isn't worth it to try and optimise your entire game programming for the sake of one bug that doesn't have a drastic effect on the game.

Edit: Note: You also made mention that you don't see the menus as being complicated? Well, you should look at source files for these games from time to time. That, or look at fan games created in RPG maker, or a program utilizing C/C+/C++, since C is a very popular language for programming games these days.
You could even look at PHP, which shares a lot of similarities with C, but lacks about half the complexity.

Code is code, any way you slice it, and if you can't comprehend PHP streight out of the gate, then the coding involved in programming a game would whoosh past you so many times, you would prematurely age 20 years.

Thanks for the info, lost in thought. I didn't realize there no concrete distinction between in-game code and menu screen code. I just assumed they were completely different animals. By the way, I'm curious as to what programming language console games such as this are written in. Any idea?

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:38 am

Lost's right, coding for a game, especially ones these days, is no easy task. To fix one small bug could take dozens of lines of code. But first you have to find the part where the bug is at which could take a while. And then there's always the chance that recoding that section or adding a new bit of code to fix what's broken could break something else somewhere else.

I remember one game for the 64, Aidyn Crhonicles. An RPG. The developers had intended to include a way, like any RPG, to revive your characters if they died in battle. However, every try at such coding they made caused the game to crash when you attempted the ressurection. Not knowing what part of the code was causing the problem they simply scrapped the feature.

If the US release date hadn't been pushed up it's possible they would have found the time to fix the audio file glitch. But, as has been said, it's really a very minor problem that probably takes, what, a minute to get around? It's not game breaking and so it's not a priority.

Thanks for the info, lost in thought. I didn't realize there no concrete distinction between in-game code and menu screen code. I just assumed they were completely different animals. By the way, I'm curious as to what programming language console games such as this are written in. Any idea?

I'm pretty sure the consoles all use their own languages, though they may use C++ or something.

gallagtor · Post by **gallagtor** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:44 am

Anyway, getting back on topic, has anyone figured out how to open the last Z Battle Gate?

h3ndrix2005 · Post by **h3ndrix2005** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:03 am

Collect the dragonballs and make the wish.

lost in thought · Post by **lost in thought** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:00 am

gallagtor wrote:Thanks for the info, lost in thought. I didn't realize there no concrete distinction between in-game code and menu screen code. I just assumed they were completely different animals. By the way, I'm curious as to what programming language console games such as this are written in. Any idea?

You're very welcome, Gallagtor. And assuming there is a distinction isn't a very uncommon ideal, and the idea flourishes because of how video games perform.

Now as far as the languages go, that are used for coding videogames, I *would* say C, since if I am remembering correctly the PS1 used C to develop their games, but without any concrete evidence, I really don't know. I do know that for most consoles, videogame engines are usually developed in C, or C+ though.

Xyex wrote:Lost's right

Thanks for backing me up.

Xyex wrote:I remember one game for the 64, Aidyn Crhonicles. An RPG. The developers had intended to include a way, like any RPG, to revive your characters if they died in battle. However, every try at such coding they made caused the game to crash when you attempted the ressurection. Not knowing what part of the code was causing the problem they simply scrapped the feature.

That is exactly why developers have to weigh the bug, before commiting to its fix. Especially if you fix a bug, and it conflicts somewhere else, and the finding of the code that conflicts with you fix, is becoming difficult to find.

One more word to Gallagtor: Some bugs may be very difficult to fix, based on where they are in the code. The amount of coding it takes to make a videogame is huge, and you come out with thousands and thousands of lines. And since bugs are rarely obvious, it would make finding them a job within itself.

Xyex · Post by **Xyex** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 12:20 pm

No problem lost. And ya, finding the bug in gameplay = easy. Finding the bug in code = pain in the ass. It's like looking for a needle in a hay stack.

gallagtor wrote:Anyway, getting back on topic, has anyone figured out how to open the last Z Battle Gate?

I've been seeing this question on Gamefaqs too. According to them you need to wish for "Real Tournament" or something. Apparently it lets you play a special DB style tournament or something (allowing you to play with Tao, Roshi, and Kid Goku before even unlocking them). At least, that's what I've heard. I don't have my copy yet, still hasn't even gotten to Jers... *kicks VGC*

gurugt705 · Post by **gurugt705** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:00 pm

I picked up the american version, I'm 75% done with the saiyan saga battle gate, I love it.

lost in thought · Post by **lost in thought** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 1:53 pm

Oh god damn, Freeza is batting me around something terrible.

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:05 pm

My Tenkaichi line of the week (from 2nd form Cell): "This is impossible! Crushed by the vile Vegeta!"

This game had a HELL of a learning curve, but I'm getting better. I can't picture myself getting all those Dragonballs any time soon, though.

I was wondering why the heck anyone would order the Japanese version instead of waiting for the English adaptation, but now I know why. Wow, is that music annoying or what?

UPDATE! New fantastic line (from Perfect Cell): "Beaten! By that nauseating Vegeta!"

Just beautiful.

wannywan · Post by **wannywan** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:28 pm

Just got BT an hour ago - I can see what everyone means by the learning curve!!

I'm so glad I'm playing a new DBZ game - my copy of Budokai 3 got scratched by a friend after one week of furious play so I've been playing Budokai 2 for ages now!

I changed the controls at the start to the 'B' controls to play more like the last Budokai's - did anyone Else do this?

lost in thought · Post by **lost in thought** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:25 pm

wannywan wrote:Just got BT an hour ago - I can see what everyone means by the learning curve!!

I'm so glad I'm playing a new DBZ game - my copy of Budokai 3 got scratched by a friend after one week of furious play so I've been playing Budokai 2 for ages now!

I changed the controls at the start to the 'B' controls to play more like the last Budokai's - did anyone Else do this?

I changed the controls as well, but now there's a problem, that the game doesn't take account for: When you set the controls differently, the attack listings remain the same, so you have to figure out which button does which. Like for instance in attacks that use the triangle, I have to press O, and for attacks that use O, I have to press X.
It's goofy.

AznMastah · Post by **AznMastah** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:36 pm

I'm going to sound really stupid but how do you equip techniques to your characters? Because i unlocked supersaiyan trunks but i don't know how to make him go supersaiyan in duel mode (T_T)

Post by **VegettoEX** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:43 pm

AznMastah wrote: I'm going to sound really stupid but how do you equip techniques to your characters? Because i unlocked supersaiyan trunks but i don't know how to make him go supersaiyan in duel mode (T_T)

You don't. You don't transform during battles. Different forms of characters have to be selected before you fight as them. For example, regular Trunks and SSJ Trunks are two "different" characters. Pressing DOWN and UP on the character select screen allows you to choose the different forms of the character (though some, like Trunks and Vegeta, have different base characters with their own individual alternate costumes/transformations).

dim_sum_boy · Post by **dim_sum_boy** » Fri Oct 21, 2005 9:56 pm

I just got it a couple hours ago. I have to say it's quite different than Budokai 3. The controls a hard to learn, but I guess I'll get used to it.

Ginyu Taiko · Post by **Ginyu Taiko** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:51 am

Just got it today... Still amazed by the freedom of movement one has in this game!

I'm still not very good at it, though.

dim_sum_boy · Post by **dim_sum_boy** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 12:56 am

The feel of this game is different than Budokai 3. It feels a lot like DBZ: Sagas. I mean the punch, kick combos are kinda like sagas. Don't get me worng, I think this game is fun. Tenkaichi's Z battle Gate is pretty much like Budokai 1 where you just get to fight the opponent right away.

Dominator · Post by **Dominator** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:29 am

I just got mine yesterday *hugs his Budokai Tenkaichi*.

wannywan · Post by **wannywan** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:38 am

Yeah, lost in thought, that's really annoying isn't it? I would've thought that the controls would be marked as 'ki attack' etc. Especially since they give you the option to change the controls in the first place!

I've had it since yesterday and stayed up till about 5 am last night playing it.

What a brilliant game!

Dominator · Post by **Dominator** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:37 am

Oozaru Vegeta is as hard as ****! Anyone beat him yet? I've already unlocked most of the sagas and movies, including Bojack, Broli, Cooler and Super 17. Whereas Budokai 3 dragged on a bit in Dragon Universe, you get too easily addicted in Battle Gate!

SuperFusion · Post by **SuperFusion** » Sat Oct 22, 2005 10:46 am

Dominator wrote:Oozaru Vegeta is as hard as ****! Anyone beat him yet? I've already unlocked most of the sagas and movies, including Bojack, Broli, Cooler and Super 17. Whereas Budokai 3 dragged on a bit in Dragon Universe, you get too easily addicted in Battle Gate!

Just run for your life, and when he gets close, blast him with a ki attack. That's how I did it :O

Kanzenshuu

"Sparking!" - Official "I Have It" Topic

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