Gohan using the Kamehameha

SonGohan-san · Post by **SonGohan-san** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 7:22 pm

Yeah, "devil" something was what I remember reading now that I think of it, not "demon."

Pancakes · Post by **Pancakes** » Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:42 pm

I'd like to know when Mirai Trunks learned the Masenko. He used it in movie 9, but I don't think he did in the series.... >P

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 12:04 am

Pancakes wrote:I'd like to know when Mirai Trunks learned the Masenko. He used it in movie 9, but I don't think he did in the series.... >P

Movie 8.

At least that makes sense. Trunks trained under Gohan in the future, and to see him use one of Gohan's moves makes sense... at least they BOTH use it, unlike Gohan using it outta nowhere.

The S · Post by **The S** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 2:35 pm

Son Gohan's ability list:
Bukujutsu, Chou Kamehameha, Energy Dan, Kamehameha, Kuchibue, Masenko, Oozaru, Renzoku Energy Dan, Shield, Super Saiya-jin, Super Saiya-jin 2, Toujyou Cool Pose, Ultra Super Saiya-jin, Zanzoken.

Piccolo's ability list:
Bakurestumaha, Bukujutsu, Choubakurestumaha, Chonoryoku, Energy Dan, Kokusanyudokodan, Kousengan, Kyodaika, Makankosappo, Makousen, Masenko, Materialization, Meditation, Namek Fusion, Renzoku Kikouha, Renzoku Senkoudan, Reverse Mafuba, Sai Sei, Shishin No Ken, Shogekiha, Tsuihidan, Tsuno Beam, Zanzoken.

Mirai no Trunks' ability list:
Bukujutsu, Burning Attack, Finishing Buster, Kamehameha, Masenko, Renzoku Kikouha, Super Saiya-jin, Ultra Super Saiya-jin, Ultra Super Saiya-jin Stage 2, Zanzoken.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:32 pm

Wow, that's complex. Even Reverse Mafuba... where did that come from?

Post by **TripleRach** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:44 pm

Piccolo reverses Kami/Shen's Mafuuba at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:59 pm

No no, you misunderstand. I know of the technique, but I'm suprised that even it would be included. Then I asked where the list came from, because I figure it wasn't just written out on the spot.

Post by **TripleRach** » Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:21 pm

Oh okay. ^^;;

That sounds like a Daizenshuu-based listing, though. Some of those techniques have names only in the Daizenshuu, and not directly mentioned in the series.

Adamas de Diama · Post by **Adamas de Diama** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 12:18 am

Even the Kamehameha launched from the feet has a modified name and generally listed as a totally seperate attack ^_^. Bless their hearts, those Japanese.

BTW, I just looked up Masenko...and it means "Demon Flash". I say 'demon', though the site I got this from insists on 'evil'. If I know any Japanese at all, I know that 'aku' = 'evil', and 'ma' (in a word) = 'demon' (usually). Yeah.

My two cents.

The S · Post by **The S** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:09 am

Ashikarakamehameha!

Nihongo wa sutekki desu!

Adamas de Diama · Post by **Adamas de Diama** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:13 am

I dunno exactly what the first part means, but I assume the second means "Japanese is beautiful."

Asukarakamehameha?? Hm...sure you don't mean Ashide Kamehameha?

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:35 am

SonGohan-san wrote:I always assumed he learned it from Piccolo until I saw the entire series w/o him doing it. Though you're question seemed rhetorical, I'll answer it anyways. You probably assumed like I did that Piccolo taught him one of his own attacks during the training (not his best one mind you b/c Piccolo would still need to kill him after Vegita and Nappa were dealt with). There's also the fact that Gohan's Masenko is yellow like virtually all of Piccolo's attacks.

Also, I want to say that Masenko means something along "Demon attack". I know I got that from somewhere. How right that actually is is another story.

I hate to nit-pick, but I need to disagree. Piccolo did teach Gohan everything he knew (Except the Mankassapo), with the intention of Gohan becoming stronger than himself, he even says so. Kami goes on to say that Piccolo must realize that he was going to soon die, and wanted to leave his evil legacy with the son of his greatest rival.

I had never really thought about it, but I suppose Gohan could've learned the Kamehameha from Kuririn when they were on their way to Namek.

SonGohan-san · Post by **SonGohan-san** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:48 am

[/quote]Piccolo did teach Gohan everything he knew (Except the Mankassapo), with the intention of Gohan becoming stronger than himself, he even says so. Kami goes on to say that Piccolo must realize that he was going to soon die, and wanted to leave his evil legacy with the son of his greatest rival.[/quote]

Did he? Or are you just assuming he did? Where is that stated? And where is it stated that he wants Gohan to actually become stronger? I know Piccolo wanted him to become strong so he could help out. Help out HIS cause that is. But I don't recall it being stated anywhere that Piccolo wanted him to actually become stronger than himself. And if he planned on having Gohan become stronger, why not just teach him the makkankosappo?

However, it is stated several times by Piccolo himself that he has plans to still rule the world after the Sayians are defeated. He states this even during the Saiyan conflict, I believe. Not a very good strategy, if you ask me, to make your rival's son stronger if this is indeed still your goal. All you're doing then is creating an even stronger enemy.

And, to be honest, I have no idea where you get "him wanting to leave his evil legacy behind" from. I could have overlooked this at some point. I overlook a ton of crap. But when he was killed by Nappa, he seemed pretty disgusted with himself for letting his emotions bring about his end. He said something like, "Me, the devil, sacrificing himself for this...kid" That's loosely what he said according to the fansubs I own, I think. That again, doesn't sound like someone's last words would be to someone if they were actually prepping them from the start to take his place.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:08 am

SonGohan-san wrote:Did he? Or are you just assuming he did? Where is that stated? And where is it stated that he wants Gohan to actually become stronger? I know Piccolo wanted him to become strong so he could help out. Help out HIS cause that is. But I don't recall it being stated anywhere that Piccolo wanted him to actually become stronger than himself. And if he planned on having Gohan become stronger, why not just teach him the makkankosappo?

However, it is stated several times by Piccolo himself that he has plans to still rule the world after the Sayians are defeated. He states this even during the Saiyan conflict, I believe. Not a very good strategy, if you ask me, to make your rival's son stronger if this is indeed still your goal. All you're doing then is creating an even stronger enemy.

And, to be honest, I have no idea where you get "him wanting to leave his evil legacy behind" from. I could have overlooked this at some point. I overlook a ton of crap. But when he was killed by Nappa, he seemed pretty disgusted with himself for letting his emotions bring about his end. He said something like, "Me, the devil, sacrificing himself for this...kid" That's loosely what he said according to the fansubs I own, I think. That again, doesn't sound like someone's last words would be to someone if they were actually prepping them from the start to take his place.

Well It wasn't really said directly, but their was some strong evidence to back up my claim.:

(DBZ Manga issue 13)

Kami: "Perhaps he is even aware of it...Aware that I...and thus he, Piccolo...have only one year to live.

Popo: ... One Year...

Kami: I do not know, however if that is because Piccolo is going to be killed by the Saiyans when they arrive in a year...or if my life span happens to end at that time.

My death is Piccolo's death, and Piccolo's death is my death...heh heh...it is not a pleasent thing, even for a god, to know one's own death...

He knows this...he might be wanting to leave something behind...even if it is in Son Goku's son..."

That in itself may not be conclusive, but in the same issue Piccolo also says "Prepare yourself...for...you are about to be remade in my own image!" So it's very creditable.

[/b]

SonGohan-san · Post by **SonGohan-san** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:21 am

Yeah, like I said, I overlook plenty. I can see the "leaving his legacy behind" argument being substanciated with this material but at the same time I think its a very huge inductive leap to assume that he actually taughted Gohan EVERYTHING except the makkankosappo and that he intended for him to become stronger than himself.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:00 pm

SonGohan-san wrote:Yeah, like I said, I overlook plenty. I can see the "leaving his legacy behind" argument being substanciated with this material but at the same time I think its a very huge inductive leap to assume that he actually taughted Gohan EVERYTHING except the makkankosappo and that he intended for him to become stronger than himself.

Yes, perhaps I over-stated a bit. But then Piccolo only trained him for six months (the other 6 were spent on his own in the wilderness) So it wouldn't be possible to teach him everything.

However, after digging through my mangas a bit more, I found another quote that supports my statement:

(DBZ manga 13)

Piccolo: You will sleep, you will eat...and you will fight with me!

Gohan: B-b-but I'll die...

Piccolo: Or become strong. Stronger than me......and the Saiyans who come to destroy us.

Also, when Piccolo is saying this he has a little grin on his face, it doesn't seem like he's upset by the idea that Gohan is going to exceed him.

EDIT: I just wanted to note, the sections that I placed in bold appeared that way in the manga, not that I emphasized them to prove my point. (But they do that very nicely)

SonGohan-san · Post by **SonGohan-san** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 3:14 pm

Yeah, those do support pretty well. I really should read the mangas (as you can probably tell, I don't).

I can't understand why Piccolo would say that and actually mean it considering his typical bad guy agenda at the the time. It doesn't make sense. You could argue that he didn't REALLY want Gohan to become stronger than him, that he was just motivating him. But that sounds so wishy washy especially if he explicitly said those words. Maybe he was also trying to brainwash Gohan to be his tool on top of making him stronger?
Hmmm, but you're right, there does seem to be some good evidence to support the idea of Piccolo wanting Gohan to become stronger.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 4:27 pm

I think Piccolo did it out of not having any other choice against the coming Saiyajins. It had taken all he and Goku could, with Goku having to also sacrifice himself just to defeat Radditz, and as was stated, Vegita and Nappa were much, much stronger. It was really out of desperation.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Mar 06, 2004 5:36 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:I think Piccolo did it out of not having any other choice against the coming Saiyajins. It had taken all he and Goku could, with Goku having to also sacrifice himself just to defeat Radditz, and as was stated, Vegita and Nappa were much, much stronger. It was really out of desperation.

It could be, but then I direct again to what Kami said. Of course you could make the argument that Kami is senile and has no idea what he's talking about. More likely however, Toriyama was using Kami's narrative with Popo as a plot device to give insight into Piccolo's thinking. I doubt Toriyama drew out all those panels of explination for no reason.

Kanzenshuu

Gohan using the Kamehameha

Who is online