Favorite transformation sequence?

[Dayspring]

True that the transformation in the anime are better than in the manga

Er...I don't remember reading a concensus about that...

Neither do I, it's just what I think. It's obvious that the transformation sequences are handled much better in the anime,

Please never use personal opinions as hardcore facts. It's not obvious in the least; it is simply, as you said, just what you think.

I'm not saying the manga is worse than the anime

That's my point though: you are saying just that whenever you make claims like "true that the anime is better," or "obviously these are the methods that work better, which aren't found in the manga," or "clearly blabla." You're starting your sentence off with a statement that indicates your opinion is self-evidently the only correct one.

Obviously, sound, colour and movement works better than black and white stills

Again, not self-evident and not always the case.

Thus, when someone says, "The book's always better than the movie," inform them that that statement means exactly tommyrot.

You're arguing the wrong point: when people say that it's because a movie's visuals, acting, audio and sooo much more is fed to you. You do not interperate anything in a movie (besides intent and meaning of the plot) because what you see is what you get. With books it's up to the reader to interperate everything, so all you see when you go to a movie is that version which differs from your imaginings. In almost every case you'll be let down as a result.

[Bejiita]

Er...I don't remember reading a concensus about that...

Neither do I, it's just what I think. It's obvious that the transformation sequences are handled much better in the anime,

Please never use personal opinions as hardcore facts. It's not obvious in the least; it is simply, as you said, just what you think.

I'm not saying the manga is worse than the anime

That's my point though: you are saying just that whenever you make claims like "true that the anime is better," or "obviously these are the methods that work better, which aren't found in the manga," or "clearly blabla." You're starting your sentence off with a statement that indicates your opinion is self-evidently the only correct one.

Obviously, sound, colour and movement works better than black and white stills

Again, not self-evident and not always the case.

Thus, when someone says, "The book's always better than the movie," inform them that that statement means exactly tommyrot.

You're arguing the wrong point: when people say that it's because a movie's visuals, acting, audio and sooo much more is fed to you. You do not interperate anything in a movie (besides intent and meaning of the plot) because what you see is what you get. With books it's up to the reader to interperate everything, so all you see when you go to a movie is that version which differs from your imaginings. In almost every case you'll be let down as a result.

Why are you looking for arguments where they are not needed Dayspring?

If I say the anime tranfsormations are better than those shown in the manga I am obviously giving my personal opinion, where is there an official statement which says the anime is better than the manga? Well, there isn't...so obviously anyone's posts which have obvious opinions are not going to be officially true, the way you're going on is as if I'm an official representative of DBZ stating facts or something.

And I would say that watching transformations is better than reading them with pictures, which I've already stated, even though the manga artwork is better.


You are either a manga lover, or a user looking for an argument that lasts at least 4 pages before being locked.

You can't argue with people who claim their opinions are true when no actual fact is evident, I may have said, for example, 'True that Titanic is better Pearl Harbour', and aside from the fact the the two films may have different audiences with different opinions, and me saying Titanic is better isn't a fact, and Titanic probably is better, people will still argue on wether I'm wrong or right, when in actual fact, a film can be awesome for one person, and shit to another.

So in reality, there is no better film, because everyone has different opinions.

But at least when I say 'the anime transformations sequences are better than in the manga', I give some reasons on why I think it is better, like, the colour, it's moving animation, and there's is sound, whatever. All you can say is I'm not correct and I'm not the one who is right, even though you have not said which of the two you prefer yourself, you haven't given any reasons on why you think one is better than the other.

[Dayspring]

You've completely missed the point of mosts, Bejiita, so I'll end the discussion here since you feel I'm simply looking for a fight. If you want to know what I was getting at, please re-read everything in your quoted section and then compare your use of the words "obvious" and "true that" to your previous posts.

I'm going to make an address to everybody in the General Discussion forum of the Daizenshuu EX section after lunch. Everybody please read it.

[oponok]

You're arguing the wrong point: when people say that it's because a movie's visuals, acting, audio and sooo much more is fed to you. You do not interperate anything in a movie (besides intent and meaning of the plot) because what you see is what you get. With books it's up to the reader to interperate everything, so all you see when you go to a movie is that version which differs from your imaginings. In almost every case you'll be let down as a result.

Well, maybe I'm just used to going to a film with no expectations. It WILL be different from what one imagines when reading the original text. Films are condensed and reimagined by an artist or filmmaker or screenwriter who had nothing to do with the source material. They have an entirely different spin on the subject matter (see Kubrick's "The Shining" for one of the best examples). The book and the film version are two utterly different entities. If you want some extreme examples, try watching some of those lame "classic" films based on novels. Almost all of the film versions eliminate African American, Hispanic, homosexual, Native American, and Asian characters or any themes or lines of dialogue that might make conservative audiences and studio heads feel icky. But did that stop critics from praising these filmic reimaginings? Did the critics say, "Well, it's not as good as the book...?" The themes might change, the characters might be changed, the title of the damn film might be different from the original text, but it doesn't really mean anything. Film is what it is. If you want to imagine your own take on a book, then, well, read it again. You shouldn't expect a film to be what you yourself imagined, and need to remember that it's a different medium. It's simply someone's opinion if he or she is let down. Frankly, I favor reading film over literature, so it's never bothered me. Yet the times I've read a novel and then proceeded to see the movie, I'm never been "let down." The film may be a terrible film, but that's something altogether different from the book.

Uh, redirecting the conversation slightly, I always liked Super Vegeta's transformation in the manga.

[Mirai Trunks´s Nr. 1 fan]

My favourite is without a question Gohan´s SSj2 trans. I loved the part where all of a sudden he simply snapped. Also how #16 was able to inspire him.
My least favourite sequence is the only transformation that didn´t have a sequence at all. kanzentai Cell to Super kanzentai. Oh yes I loved the forms... but there was no sequence... a HUGE disappointment.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Well, here goes . . .


The Favorite

Super Saiyan 3 Goku

Not so much the transformation itself or the resulting battle power, but rather the shock value. I keep thinking about the way he had kept it to himself during his fight with Majin Vegeta . . . despite having promised that he would end the battle quickly with his highest power . . . and how surprising the truth of that lie may have been to a person who had been faithfully following the show episode by episode up to that point without the benefit of having read the corresponding manga chapter beforehand. After all, we know it shocked Vegeta; I would have given anything to have seen the look on his face in Other World.

Though it may have taken a little too long, the sheer length of the transformation gave me a real sense of just how much power Goku needed to amass to reach that level, and the glory-shot we get when he's finally finished is pretty badass.

I also liked that it was something of a tease, and that Goku didn't go all-out against Buu the way he says he could have before leaving for the Other World.


Other Favorites

Super Saiyan 2 Gohan

Cell thinks it's still a game, but Gohan is about to open up a can of whoopass. The change in his manner . . . so astonishingly different from the Gohan we all know, and yet it feels just so right that he finally comes into his own. It was really thrilling to see him hold together the fusion of power and rage he had let slip so many times before and make it real; raw, untempered emotion the likes of which we never really see again in Dragonball Z despite the continually escalading powers of its main characters. SSJ3 Goku is my favorite transformation sequence, but SSJ2 Gohan is interconnected with so much history and so many memories that it just might be the shining moment of the entire series, and for me is just beyond words.

And honestly, who doesn't just love "Spirit vs. Spirit"?

(As I watched the force of Gohan's explosion kick up a great dust that went whooshing over Cell, Trunks, Piccolo, Vegeta and even Goku himself, I remember thinking that Gohan had done exactly that; left them all in the dust, in terms of power. Heh . . . how corny.)

"Super" Vegeta

The actual scene where Vegeta pushed himself into the USSJ state is beautifully animated, and after getting thoroughly thrashed by No. 18 some episodes ago it's great to see him gain the upper hand on an even more powerful adversary and get his confidence back. The Prince completely revels in the fact that he's reached the pinnacle of Saiyan power, and that's just plain fun to watch.

Super Saiyan Goten

I have a dusty old "Declaration" VHS tape that I keep just for this, because chibi Goten is my favorite character and the look on Gohan's face when his little brother transforms is just priceless. I'm waiting for the DVD version to be released so I can (at last!) see it in Japanese.


Other Notables

Freeza, Third Form

Beyond my comprehension, as well as being just plain odd. I can remember thinking to myself when he'd finished with that transformation, "How can something like that even exist?" And it helped to completely throw me off when I saw him change into his final form . . . which I suppose could have been the point.

Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks

SSJ3 Gotenks is fun, though I wonder if it doesn't feel just the slightest bit forced. I know it was a means with which to demonstrate the power of Fusion, but it's almost as though Gotenks became SSJ3 simply so that Goten and Trunks could be counted as being able to do something extraordinary and demonstrate their worth as Saiyans. I think it was plenty amazing already that the two kids could become regular Super Saiyans, let alone reach so high as to become a force that could fight evenly with the most powerful villain of all Dragonball Z.

I'm not sure what I just said made any sense . . . not that I would change what happened, though; I love that particular fight. T'was just a thought.

Super Buu

The transformation Buu underwent after absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo just seemed so freaking unholy when first I saw it that for me it was a genuinely scary sight to see him dressed as Gotenks and challenge Gohan in the confident, more controlled way of talking that must have been derived from Piccolo.

It was hideous to see how the actual transformation used its victims' individual characteristics to form one part of Buu and then another as his new body took shape (such as the hands). And dammit, he took Piccolo's nose!


(Li'l Lemmy, the Dragonball Z fan.)

[ItsAllGood]

Definitely Trunks transforming into USSJ in front of Cell after seeing his father getting beaten to a pulp.

The build-up was brilliant, especially with the uncontrollable bulging of his muscles as he waited until Vegeta was knocked unconscious. The rest of the transformation during his fight, including the loss of pupils and the hair band flaming up as his hair shot straight up, was awesome. In my opinion, this transformation was the definition of the pure, uncontrolled rage of a SSJ. Trunks being slightly crazy at this point also contributed to this.

Goku's transformation into a SSJ in front of Android's 19 and 20 was also a brief but excellent transformation, the animation was quite well done, especially with the bulging of the muscles and the eye and hair transformation. In short, this one transformation documented all of the features the make up a SSJ.

Hmm...Gohan's transformation into a SSJ in front of Cell before the fight was quite good too, since almost all of the fighters were unaware of his power at this point. The looks on the fighters in the vicinity were priceless.

[Vhanos]

Hey I thought Cell's transformation into his perfect form was awesome. I liked how it affected the weather and caused tidal waves.

[Bejiita]

You know you're not supposed to bump old topics like this...

But after reading (some of) Li'l Lemmy's post, it reminded me that SSJ Goten was the first time I even saw a SSJ! I was (nearly) as shocked a Gohan was!

Apart from that it was wicked! Even in dub format. Be it Ocean or Funi.

[reptile-manson]

definately gohan ssj2 during cell games.


(only in the japanese language)

[Bejiita]

definately gohan ssj2 during cell games.


(only in the japanese language)

Not to be rude or anything, but you can't type like that here. Not that it's spelt bad, the way you start a sentence must be a capital letter, or the webmaster will tell you.

[Conan the SSJ]

But after reading (some of) Li'l Lemmy's post, it reminded me that SSJ Goten was the first time I even saw a SSJ!

Hold up, how could Goten's transformation be the first time you saw a Super Saiyan, when Gohan was transformed at the time? Wouldn't Gohan have been your first Super Saiyan? Sorry if this makes me look like a smart ass.

[Bejiita]

But after reading (some of) Li'l Lemmy's post, it reminded me that SSJ Goten was the first time I even saw a SSJ!

Hold up, how could Goten's transformation be the first time you saw a Super Saiyan, when Gohan was transformed at the time? Wouldn't Gohan have been your first Super Saiyan? Sorry if this makes me look like a smart ass.

I worded it wrong.

I meant it was the first time I saw someone turning SSJ for the first time.

[Li'l Lemmy]

But after reading (some of) Li'l Lemmy's post, it reminded me that SSJ Goten was the first time I even saw a SSJ!

Only some of it? Hmm . . . say, do I babble too much when I apply my opinion to a topic?

Apart from that it was wicked! Even in dub format. Be it Ocean or Funi.

Yes. Yes, it was. Hooray for Goten!

[Bejiita]

But after reading (some of) Li'l Lemmy's post, it reminded me that SSJ Goten was the first time I even saw a SSJ!

Only some of it? Hmm . . . say, do I babble too much when I apply my opinion to a topic?

Apart from that it was wicked! Even in dub format. Be it Ocean or Funi.

Yes. Yes, it was. Hooray for Goten!

Nah, nothing to do with it not being interesting, just me being lazy.

If anything I babble on at times.

[t-bone135]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Trunks transforming into USSJ2 against Cell after Vegeta bit the dust (figuratively speaking.)

Okay, so I have a little bit of a bias about it, but it was the first true transformation I saw as a new fan as I came in at the time that Cell had just absorbed #18 in the dub on CN. It was intense even though it was sort of drawn out. I was shocked that the world itself was reacting to his awsome power. That and he just kept getting bigger and bigger and I kept thinking, "My God, he's going to kick Cell's ass!"

Sorry, but I felt like adding my two cents on that one. What did other people think of that one, dub, manga, or otherwise?

EDIT: Actually, I just realized ItsAllGood mentioned that one already. Sorry about that.

[Great Saiyaman]

Gohan going SSJ2 against Cell:

The drama is at the height of any transformation we have ever seen. pure anger. SSJ2 was originally supposed to represent Gohan's Anger, but man when he let out the big scream it was pure amazment. It was much quicker than all the others. First you see poor 16 die & then that bird (in his mind) flying past Gohan & then just BOOM!!! After that you have everyone's quick reactions.

[ItsAllGood]

I actually mentioned that particular transformation T-Bone135. My all time favorite transformation!

[t-bone135]

I actually mentioned that particular transformation T-Bone135. My all time favorite transformation!

Yeah, when I posted that it had been a while since I had actually read the thread. Anyway, I made an edit to that post so that I point that out that you said it first. Still, it's good to know I'm not alone on that one.

While I'm at it, I might as well include Freeza's first transformation into the King Cold style form. It was quite disturbing at parts, what with his body getting big first and his feet and head still small. It just looked painful, so in a strange sort of way that is another one I like.