Why #16 was a failure

[Piccolo Daimao]

Now, while I know I've already made a thread similar to this in the past, I just wanted to bring it up again, with another little thought that I had.

Back on that thread, there were a number of reasons people speculated as to why Gero considered #16 a failure, such as his gentle personality, the infinite energy reactor making him uncontrollable like #17 and #18, etc. Personally, I don't think his personality was the problem, since, as we see in the story, he was still focused on killing Goku anyway, so it wouldn't have mattered whether or not he liked birds.

But I want to touch upon this.

Chapter: 350 (DBZ 156), P6.4-6
Context: as No.17 and No.18 muck around with No.16
No.20: “Yo-you can’t! Stop! Do you want to destroy the world?! No.16 is an experimental model, a failed creation! Don’t move him, whatever you do! [ ] I had planned on fixing him soon…! Anyway, don’t move him! It might mean the end for you and me!”

Now, of course, you could make the argument that Gero was just bluffing about #16 possibly destroying the world, but there could be something in that. I already think that one, out of four possible reasons for Gero considering #16 a failure, is that he was afraid he could kill Cell for posing a threat to the universe. But another could be that #16 would be so desperate to kill Goku or Cell that, if he couldn't do it with his own strength, he'd self-destruct, his bomb being so powerful that it could potentially destroy Earth. I thought I could use that as foreshadowing for when #16 is about to self-destruct Cell, and he says this.

Chapter: 406 (DBZ 212), P6.4-5, P7.3
Context: after No.16 grabs hold of Cell
Kuririn “No.16 intends to kill Cell!”
Trunks: “But there’s nothing he can do against Cell!”
No.16: “Please forgive me for sacrificing you all along with me. I’m going to self-destruct with Cell! [ ] This is my final power hidden inside my body, which I was to never use! Even you people will be blown to pieces just by being close by!”

Anyway, those are my thoughts. What are yours?

For reference, here's my little list of thoughts as to why Gero thought that #16 was a failure.

Dr. Gero believed #16 was a failure because
1) Like #17 and #18, he believed that infinite energy reactor made him uncontrollable
2) #16 was so focused on his mission of killing Goku that he didn’t listen to any of Gero’s other orders. Gero wasn’t able to override or reprogram him.
3) Gero was afraid that #16 could kill Cell for posing a threat to the universe, thus destroying Gero’s plan of having Cell become the perfect being and take over the world
4) The fact that #16 could be so desperate to kill Goku or Cell that, if he couldn’t do it with his own strength, he’d self-destruct, his bomb being so powerful that it could potentially destroy Earth

[dbgtFO]

I do think it's possible the bit about destroying the world was hyperbole, so #17 & #18 would be too scared for their safety to release #16, but like you I also find the 4th option plausible.

To be frank I never really understood why Gero said he would kill them all and it wasn't until someone on this message board argued that it simply could be because of #16's love of life didn't correlate with Gero's other more sinister plans.
Back when I was younger I felt it was an ignored plot point, so I made a fan manga out of it, where #16 indeed was acting the way I felt he should(trying to kill off the other androids just after being released).

On another note, I wonder how he was going to fix him.

[hleV]

Maybe #16 was programmed to kill Goku, but not yet programmed to obey other Gero's orders.

[Fox666]

It seems No.19 was a success, so you can just compare No.16 and 19 to deduce which aspects of No.16 are malfunctioning.

This is from the title page of 367 (DBZ 173)

Here's Everything About Doctor Gero's Androids!
All the ones after No.8 were made for the purpose of defeating Son Goku after he destroyed the Red Ribbon Army!
Goku: Hmm, hmm

Nos.1-7
All had problems

No.8
A failure, he has a gentle personality and befriends Goku.

Nos.9-15
Apparently they all had problems, but Nos. 13, 14, and 15 seem to have had a fairly high degree of completion.

No.16
It's not all that clear, but Doctor Gero said he was a failure. It seems that his personality was most likely the problem, but could there be some other mystery?... (Completely artificial construct)

No.17
Too much emphasis was placed on his power, resulting in him being a failure who doesn't listen to orders. (Human-base)

No.18
Her power is more suppressed than No.17's, but in the end she too is a failure who doesn't listen to orders. (Human-base)

No.19
Finally a success, but he as destroyed by Vegeta. (Completely artificial construct)

No.20
He finally modified himself. However, he was destroyed by No.17. (Human plus machines)

[a two-way arrow points between Cell and the box containing No.17 and No.18]
Cell
Previously Doctor Gero had tried to create an android through bio-technology, but it was too difficult time-wise, so he had a computer continue the experiment. He was made by combining the cells of Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Freeza, Freeza's father, and numerous varieties of life-forms. From this state, he supposedly can merge with No.17 and No.18 to reach his perfect form.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think all of those reasons are plausible. The Cell one is pretty interesting. I always thought Gero was worried #16 was going to defy him if he decided to take over the world after defeating Goku. I could see #16 crushing both Androids if they actually kicked a dog.

[Super Vegito]

Maybe #16 was programmed to kill Goku, but not yet programmed to obey other Gero's orders.

That wouldn't necessarily make him a "failure", just incomplete.

I believe Android 16's love of life is what obviously made him a failure. It's possible that he wouldn't obey certain orders (like you mentioned, but for differen't reasons), like when Gero and Android 19 were in the city causing havoc. Android 16 never showed that kind of behavior. His only intentions were to find Goku and complete his mission. He never really wanted to harm anyone else.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I believe Android 16's love of life is what obviously made him a failure. It's possible that he wouldn't obey certain orders (like you mentioned, but for differen't reasons), like when Gero and Android 19 were in the city causing havoc. Android 16 never showed that kind of behavior. His only intentions were to find Goku and complete his mission. He never really wanted to harm anyone else.

But although #16 loved nature, that didn't affect his mission of killing Goku. He was single-minded in his objective, moreso than any of the other Androids we saw, so I don't see how that could make him a failure.

[the_abberration]

But although #16 loved nature, that didn't affect his mission of killing Goku. He was single-minded in his objective, moreso than any of the other Androids we saw, so I don't see how that could make him a failure.

I don't think he was that single minded. After all he did go along with #17 and #18, when they wanted to make a game of finding Goku, instead of just heading off on his own to search for him. Also when he does meet Goku, he just warns him that he was programmed to kill him, as opposed to just attacking him outright due to the bigger threat at hand.

I think part of #16's programming (and in Dr. Gero's eyes failure) lies within his threat assessment. Dr. Gero viewed Goku as a threat, so he passed this along to #16. But maybe in programming everything Dr. Gero knew about Goku into him, #16 realized that once Goku was out of the picture, Dr. Gero would become the next threat. Not being able (or having enough time) to reprogram him, Dr. Gero chose to deactivate him until a later time.

[Super Vegito]

But although #16 loved nature, that didn't affect his mission of killing Goku. He was single-minded in his objective, moreso than any of the other Androids we saw, so I don't see how that could make him a failure.

I believe Android 16's love of life is what obviously made him a failure. It's possible that he wouldn't obey certain orders, like when Gero and Android 19 were in the city causing havoc. Android 16 never showed that kind of behavior. His only intentions were to find Goku and complete his mission. He never really wanted to harm anyone else.

Following orders no matter what they are, is an important factor. The fact that he loves nature, and never showed the will to harm anyone but Goku (unless they posed a serious threat, like Cell), shows that he would have never done what Android 19 (a success) had done. Thus Gero deemed him a failure.

Gero wanted to create a killing machine, that would be loyal and follow his every order, no matter what that order was, and kill Goku. Android 16's "loving nature" quality could have contradicted what Gero would have wanted him to do (killing innocent people, and destroying a city), and he probably would have refused.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think he was that single minded. After all he did go along with #17 and #18, when they wanted to make a game of finding Goku, instead of just heading off on his own to search for him. Also when he does meet Goku, he just warns him that he was programmed to kill him, as opposed to just attacking him outright due to the bigger threat at hand.

I think part of #16's programming (and in Dr. Gero's eyes failure) lies within his threat assessment. Dr. Gero viewed Goku as a threat, so he passed this along to #16. But maybe in programming everything Dr. Gero knew about Goku into him, #16 realized that once Goku was out of the picture, Dr. Gero would become the next threat. Not being able (or having enough time) to reprogram him, Dr. Gero chose to deactivate him until a later time.

I also like this theory.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Now I understand and I agree with you. After all, Dr. Gero's secondary goal was presumably world domination, which #16 didn't seem to be programmed to perform, since his only target was killing Goku and he didn't appear to care for much else other than nature.

However, Gero could've simply had #16 kill Goku, then deactivate him and work on fixing him whenever he wanted.

[the_abberration]

However, Gero could've simply had #16 kill Goku, then deactivate him and work on fixing him whenever he wanted.

As paranoid as Dr. Gero was about the androids being disobedient, if you were in his shoes, could you trust that plan being pulled off without a hitch?. For example, Goku convincing #16 to take out Gero first, before fighting him. I think Babidi would agree with me on that.

[Piccolo Daimao]

However, Gero could've simply had #16 kill Goku, then deactivate him and work on fixing him whenever he wanted.

As paranoid as Dr. Gero was about the androids being disobedient, if you were in his shoes, could you trust that plan being pulled off without a hitch?. For example, Goku convincing #16 to take out Gero first, before fighting him. I think Babidi would agree with me on that.

I don't think Gero was paranoid by any means. He knows how ridiculously strong his Androids are, and how #17 and #18, whose primary mission wasn't killing Goku (saying that they hated following Gero's programming, but they wanted to kill Goku anyway for fun because he was the strongest on Earth), didn't listen to his orders and were at risk of turning on him, which, as we saw, they eventually did.

However, you do have a point about Goku convincing #16 to take out Gero first before fighting him. #16, who's not dumb and simple like Boo, could've realized that he doesn't have to listen to a guy hell-bent on destruction and world domination and take him about before he does any damage to the planet. And Gero, a scientific, calculating genius, could've imagined that might happen.

[Saimaroimaru]

Maybe he just saw him as an overpowered No. 8 and we all know how it all went back in the R& R arc with 8 and Goku.

[Kaboom]

I usually think the "could destroy the world" part was a bit of a foreshadowing to how #16 ends up being the strongest Android.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I usually think the "could destroy the world" part was a bit of a foreshadowing to how #16 ends up being the strongest Android.

...How?

[Kaboom]

I usually think the "could destroy the world" part was a bit of a foreshadowing to how #16 ends up being the strongest Android.

...How?

Only that as the strongest Android he just has the most destructive power. So since he doesn't follow orders, then if he decides to go rogue somehow then nobody would be able to stop him. Something like that. Maybe not intended foreshadowing, but it's the way I usually take it.

[Piccolo Daimao]

I usually think the "could destroy the world" part was a bit of a foreshadowing to how #16 ends up being the strongest Android.

...How?

Only that as the strongest Android he just has the most destructive power. So since he doesn't follow orders, then if he decides to go rogue somehow then nobody would be able to stop him. Something like that. Maybe not intended foreshadowing, but it's the way I usually take it.

OK, fair enough. Although, before he fought Cell, #16's power was a mystery, so he didn't really "end up" being the strongest Android. And Cell, who's counted as an Android, is stronger than him anyway.

[Kaboom]

OK, fair enough. Although, before he fought Cell, #16's power was a mystery

Not necessarily to Dr. Gero.

[NANLIT]

And it's not like Dr. Gero knew that there would be a Cell from a future timeline appearing to take the title of "most powerful Dr. Gero creation". The Cell of the present timeline was still in his larval form and wouldn't mature fully for another 20 years or so.

[Piccolo Daimao]

OK, fair enough. Although, before he fought Cell, #16's power was a mystery

Not necessarily to Dr. Gero.

I mean, story-wise. Which was what I thought you meant, when you said that he "ended up" being the strongest Android, because his power was still a mystery.