Dragon Box vs Original Broadcast - The Audio

[MajinVejitaXV]

The ones he's posting NOW are from Betamax.

So wait...he found more copies of the series?

[Puto]

What he said, IIRC, was that he found a guy with Betamax recordings of the entire series.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Ah, I see. No offense, while I'm not denying that there were higher fidelity copies of the soundtracks to episodes at some point, I still find the fact that one person in all my years has brought it up with only mystery VHS/Betamax recordings to back it up...amusing. ;p

[Gonstead]

Gohan Super Saiyan 2 scene has been uploaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qddtHLJMV5I

[kei17]

I still find the fact that one person in all my years has brought it up with only mystery VHS/Betamax recordings to back it up...amusing. ;p

It's not just me who brought it up if you include Japanese websites. To begin with, I couldn't believe myself, then searched for the information and found a blog that says "I bought the expensive Dragon Boxes and they all sound much worse than my old video tapes!", so I started believing my ears. Many Japanese fans must still have those "mystery VHS/Betamax recordings" and it's just that I am the only one who can bring them up for discussion HERE.

[Gonstead]

Updated topic with new scenes coming soon.

[kei17]

For your information, here's a YT channel that has many video clips ripped from old Betamax recordings in the late 1970s.

http://www.youtube.com/user/honmura1961

Some of them are from animes made by Toei Animation, and they obviously sound clearer than the DVD releases of recent years (even than the Dragon Boxes). Exactly the same thing happened to other anime shows, too.

Starzinger
Arrow Emblem: Hawk of the Grand Prix

[ayim]

y'know what needs to be done now right? Someone needs to digitally rip all that audio, mux it into the English rips of Dragon Boxes (or Funis new 1.1 thingy if it's better at all) still in vob / unencoded format, then make a torrent lol

Man I never knew there was such a difference, I thought mono just sounded like that.

Argh, I bought all these expensive Dragon Boxes and they all sound worse then the original broadcast recordings.

I did a quick search on google for the subject and found this, hes looking for all the series on the VHS etc (I did a quick search on some jp auctions sites etc to see if I could find a tape rofl)
Not too good at translating, but I think hes saying the original video quality is as good / better too, not sure though. Damnit now I want the original recordings lol
http://www.worlddbz.net76.net/vhs.htm

[nwoo_2002]

Gohan Super Saiyan 2 scene has been uploaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qddtHLJMV5I

Thanks for doing that mate. It seems that even in perfection, there is room for improvement...audio wise anyway

[Gonstead]

Gohan Super Saiyan 2 scene has been uploaded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qddtHLJMV5I

Thanks for doing that mate. It seems that even in perfection, there is room for improvement...audio wise anyway

No problem.

Be sure to look out for the new scenes coming soon.

[Gonstead]

It's Over 8000!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqEzK6lTsYw

[TheBlackPaladin]

I still find the fact that one person in all my years has brought it up with only mystery VHS/Betamax recordings to back it up...amusing. ;p

It's not just me who brought it up if you include Japanese websites. To begin with, I couldn't believe myself, then searched for the information and found a blog that says "I bought the expensive Dragon Boxes and they all sound much worse than my old video tapes!", so I started believing my ears. Many Japanese fans must still have those "mystery VHS/Betamax recordings" and it's just that I am the only one who can bring them up for discussion HERE.

I read somewhere that apparently the Dragon Boxes aren't regarded with nearly as much respect in Japan as they are here. This particular person said that the Dragon Boxes are, "Kind of viewed in Japan like how we view the Orange Bricks." Now mind you, I can't read or speak Japanese, so I don't know if there's any truth to that. However, the fact that there's such a difference in audio quality between the original broadcast and the DVD release...does lend some credibility to that statement, even if it doesn't outright confirm it.

Man I never knew there was such a difference, I thought mono just sounded like that.

Well, mono doesn't technically refer to sound quality. Even the original broadcast clips that you've listened to in these clips are still in mono. Mono just refers to the number of audio channels that audio is coming through...and in the case of mono, it would be one. Stereo is two, so on and so forth. The actual quality of the audio is another matter entirely. Mono can imply lower-quality audio because almost nobody encodes anything in mono anymore, and since mono was something that was done "back in the day," when audio didn't sound as good as it does now, it has the implication of sounding worse. In reality, though, it's entirely possible nowadays to create high-definition mono tracks. Mono just refers to the number of channels, not the quality.

The implication is still very widespread, though. When I record VO tracks for my clients, I always have a little discussion with them on what format they'd like the files in. I always ask whether they'd like it in mono or stereo, and they almost always ask for stereo. In turn, I always respond, "Well, I'd be happy to do that, but are you aware that there will be no difference in audio quality between mono and stereo in this case?" The usual response I get back from them is, "No, I didn't know that." So once I explain to them that they'll sound exactly the same, except the stereo file will take up more hard drive space...they just ask for mono. I've only had one case where someone intentionally requested a stereo track because they were putting my recordings into a surround-sound mix.

[ayim]

Nice explanation on the Mono / Stereo stuff, If I ever need a VO I can be all pro now and tell him to make it mono, and he'll think I'm cool lol


I looked around more on that site, and he was comparing broadcast colors to the Dragon Box too. http://worlddbz.net76.net/goku.png and I think your right about how they regard the Dragon Box there. But still it's the best release so far. Maybe Funimations new HD remastering will be the next best release, but in the one youtube comparison video I saw the blacks looked crushed (probably due to SD to HD colorspace conversion) but you can't really tell from a youtube video lol

[kei17]

I did a quick search on google for the subject and found this, hes looking for all the series on the VHS etc (I did a quick search on some jp auctions sites etc to see if I could find a tape rofl)
Not too good at translating, but I think hes saying the original video quality is as good / better too, not sure though. Damnit now I want the original recordings lol
http://www.worlddbz.net76.net/vhs.htm

Well, actually that's my site.

[MajinVejitaXV]

It's not just me who brought it up if you include Japanese websites. To begin with, I couldn't believe myself, then searched for the information and found a blog that says "I bought the expensive Dragon Boxes and they all sound much worse than my old video tapes!", so I started believing my ears. Many Japanese fans must still have those "mystery VHS/Betamax recordings" and it's just that I am the only one who can bring them up for discussion HERE.

I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, I'm just saying that for a community that has had members who were proficient if not fluent in Japanese (some of which were watching the show during its original airing)...it's interesting that no one has ever found these sites or pointed out these flaws. That's all. If you want to point us to these Japanese websites, we have people who could translate and corroborate your claims here gladly.

I read somewhere that apparently the Dragon Boxes aren't regarded with nearly as much respect in Japan as they are here. This particular person said that the Dragon Boxes are, "Kind of viewed in Japan like how we view the Orange Bricks." Now mind you, I can't read or speak Japanese, so I don't know if there's any truth to that. However, the fact that there's such a difference in audio quality between the original broadcast and the DVD release...does lend some credibility to that statement, even if it doesn't outright confirm it.

Really? They sold quite well, if I'm not mistaken. Even the singles, which came long after the boxes and would have given time for the stigma to spread so people would know they were (allegedly) so horrible. And importing wouldn't have accounted for a great deal of sales. I mean, we have the largest centralized fanbase here and I think only a handful of us own the Japanese DragonBox(es).

And again, pointing out that sales aren't everything (since the Orange Bricks sold well here), we've never had people lambast them aside from their dislike of colors (which matched International Channel airings and Daizenshuu scans) and, after kei17 popped up, the audio on the TV series boxes. And most of those people were Americans who'd never seen the DragonBoxes in person. I was unaware of any widespread Japanese fanbase backlash.

Besides, if I'm not mistaken, your statements all come from kei17 to begin with. If I'm wrong, please show me who else from Japan said this and I'll gladly take it back.

[Levlik]

I think it's kind of strange that this issue never came up until recently, too. I mean, from an American standpoint, it seems the Anime Labs fansubs were recorded during the original run and even though they're probably nth generation tapes, they still manage to sound leagues better than any official release.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-LIxvn3gu8

[MajinVejitaXV]

I think it's kind of strange that this issue never came up until recently, too. I mean, from an American standpoint, it seems the Anime Labs fansubs were recorded during the original run and even though they're probably nth generation tapes, they still manage to sound leagues better than any official release.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-LIxvn3gu8

See, that doesn't sound 'better' to me. It sounds like the mids have been scooped significantly, but it doesn't sound 'better'. Maybe it's just me. Besides, who knows what the hell kind of manipulation that audio underwent during the multitude of times it was copied (in this case)?

[cRookie_Monster]

What I'm hearing is a ton of noise in the background, almost overwhelming the audio. If it's an nth generation tape dub that would make sense.

[bkev]

Man, seeing those videos almost makes me wish the stores in Chinatown still sold tapes! Just for laughs, of course.

I for one agree with Levlik in that I think the fansub tapes actually sound better to me as well. Granted, the clip he posted was an exemplary example; most of the ones on youtube aren't quite at that level of quality. But still.

Man, I just wish kei would make his rips available as audio files timed to the dragonbox. Of course, that would be a LOT of work (having to reorder the NEPs, etc) but that would be awesome.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Has anyone ever taken the DragonBox audio and EQ'd it? It really sounds like the only substantial difference to me. Scoop the mids, increase the low and high frequencies and boom: same as kei17's VHS/Beta copies. Which makes sense, seeing as the VHS/Betamax copies probably have some sort of equalization being done either when recorded or being played back for capture (or both) anyway.

I'm just curious. I could be wrong, but it seems that is the main difference in the two versions.