DragonBall Z Kai - Cable TV Version (NickToons)

[El Diabeetus]

You can't have a 100% accurate dub because if you did it would be a bit boring.

Being accurate doesn't automatically mean being wooden and unnatural. They're not mutually exclusive, unless you're talking about doing a completely 1:1 translation that leaves things in Japanese word order or something. The only creativity you need in the translation process is, "How can I word this to sound like natural English?" When you start adding extra jokes or completely altering lines, then you've gone too far.

FUNimation dubs are certainly good at the sounding like natural English part (especially compared to a lot of other modern dubs). They just need to quit with the cute little "punch up" lines.

That's true, but, it seems like that's hard for FUNimation to do, haha. I guess they're just too used to doing it from the DB/Z/GT days.

[Fionordequester]

What's the harm in lines like that if it makes the script better in some way?

[AgitoZ]

What's the harm in lines like that if it makes the script better in some way?

The harm is that they don't. They are useless and unnecessary.

[Mewzard]

The worst invented line is Bulma's "You don't think Vegeta would take us hostage to get Goku back here, do you?"

DERP.

And I seem to recall that the line was changed for the home release, wasn't it? Some rushed edited lines do happen.

You can't have a 100% accurate dub because if you did it would be a bit boring. You have to spice up the dialogue sometimes. Kai's dub is 90-95% accurate depending on the episode for most of the series. The early Android arc was like 75-80% accurate, so yes I do excuse the Internet connection line. I found it funny, and not lame like the Z dub's dialogue was.

It isn't their job to spice up the dialogue, or as saiyanprimalforce mentioned, rework their interpretation of the character. Little changes like stick out much more due to the faithfulness of the rest of the dub. It doesn't keep Kai from being a good dub, but it keeps it from being a great dub. As VegettoEX mentioned, where is the line drawn for "creative liberties"?

That's not entirely true. 100% accuracy isn't the key to making a great dub. Many people (myself included) find Yu Yu Hakusho's dub to be superior to its subs, partially do to the voices (fantastic voice work), and partially do to the creative liberties it took. They spiced up some scenes, made Yusuke sound more like the punk he was, and made some throw away lines more memorable/amusing (good back and forth scenes with characters). That's the trick: Are they changing crucial plot details? Or are they altering minor bits of dialog that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things? If it's plot altering, it's bad (unless it's fixing an actual mistake, but that's very rare), but in the case of minor chat that brings nothing to the scene but pass the time and show how characters interact, specific details might not need to be 100% the same.

[AgitoZ]

That's not entirely true. 100% accuracy isn't the key to making a great dub. Many people (myself included) find Yu Yu Hakusho's dub to be superior to its subs, partially do to the voices (fantastic voice work), and partially do to the creative liberties it took. They spiced up some scenes, made Yusuke sound more like the punk he was, and made some throw away lines more memorable/amusing (good back and forth scenes with characters). That's the trick: Are they changing crucial plot details? Or are they altering minor bits of dialog that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things? If it's plot altering, it's bad (unless it's fixing an actual mistake, but that's very rare), but in the case of minor chat that brings nothing to the scene but pass the time and show how characters interact, specific details might not need to be 100% the same.

I never said it was. I'd argue some more, but TripleRach basically summed up my feelings on the matter.

Also, I think you should've picked a different dub. Not that it doesn't work as an example for your argument, I guess, but looking back on it, it doesn't hold up as well . But, that's also not to say it's bad.

[JulieYBM]

That's not entirely true. 100% accuracy isn't the key to making a great dub. Many people (myself included) find Yu Yu Hakusho's dub to be superior to its subs, partially do to the voices (fantastic voice work), and partially do to the creative liberties it took. They spiced up some scenes, made Yusuke sound more like the punk he was, and made some throw away lines more memorable/amusing (good back and forth scenes with characters). That's the trick: Are they changing crucial plot details? Or are they altering minor bits of dialog that don't really matter in the grand scheme of things? If it's plot altering, it's bad (unless it's fixing an actual mistake, but that's very rare), but in the case of minor chat that brings nothing to the scene but pass the time and show how characters interact, specific details might not need to be 100% the same.

Those all sound like reasons the dub isn't superior. The voice work is better than FUNimation's earlier stuff, but it's still low-grade and unrefined with many cases of actors having to put on voices to hide the fact that they're voicing multiple characters. Sasaki Nozomu is a perfect Yuusuke, actually sounding like the vulnerable kid he is. Yuusuke's a punk, but he's still a likable kid and down-to-Earth for the viewer. The dub thinks it is smart and witty by making the changes it does, but it isn't. "Made Yusuke sound more like the punk he was"...how do you quantify that? How can FUNimation come along and tell us "Oh, those people that made the show don't know what they're doing, so we'll fix it for them"...? That's silly. FUNimation is either naïve or simply thinks what they're doing is better...and that simply isn't the mindset to go into with creating a dub.

Now, to speak annecdotally. I grew up with the FUNimation dub of Yuu Yuu Hakusho, I loved it to death. Then, one day, I opened my eyes and saw the truth about what FUNimation does. The closest thing I could call how I felt was 'betrayal', but that's a rather hysterical way to put it.

[Fionordequester]

Sasaki Nozomu is a perfect Yuusuke, actually sounding like the vulnerable kid he is.

I'd like to disagree about that. Admittedly, I haven't actually heard much of the Japanese Yusuke, but from what I've heard, he sounds too much like a typical shounen hero. Part of the charm of Yusuke is that although he's still a hero in every way that's important, he is a flawed character who does many stupid and selfish things. He's likeable enough that you still root for him and cheer him on, but his flaws give a deeper depth to his character, and occasionally leave you frustrated at how boneheaded he can be. I mean c,mon, this is the same guy who looked at a guy in a restaurant with fricken horns on his head, and thought...

"Oh well, not going to let it ruin my day"

I just don't hear any of that in Sasaki. And if his "vulnerability" is that much clearer in Sasaki's acting, then I'd have to say that Sasaki's sort of missing the point. Yusuke isn't supposed to be someone who frequently expresses his vulnerabilities, he's someone who hides whatever fears he may have by being loud, boisterous, and argumentative. Justin Cook, in my opinion does an almost perfect job of capturing all of this.

Now, I do agree that not all of the liberties were good (I still cringe whenever I hear Hiei saying "I'm not one to stay home and eat chicken noodle soup"), and some of the voices were a little shaky, but overall, it was a very solid dub. I'm not going to say whether or not I like it better than the Japanese version, because I haven't watched enough of it, but I'd definetly put it on a pedestal. Also as an aside, I just love Dameon Clarke's acting as Toguro, so there's also that too.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Sasaki Nozomu is a perfect Yuusuke, actually sounding like the vulnerable kid he is.

I'd like to disagree about that. Admittedly, I haven't actually heard much of the Japanese Yusuke, but from what I've heard, he sounds too much like a typical shounen hero. Part of the charm of Yusuke is that although he's still a hero in every way that's important, he is a flawed character who does many stupid and selfish things. He's likeable enough that you still root for him and cheer him on, but his flaws give a deeper depth to his character, and occasionally leave you frustrated at how boneheaded he can be. I mean c,mon, this is the same guy who looked at a guy in a restaurant with fricken horns on his head, and thought...

"Oh well, not going to let it ruin my day"

I've got to agree with this. I certainly can't disown the Japanese voice in a hardcore dubbie sort of way, but either Steve's translations are wooden as usual or, presuming Toei (?) has the credibility here, there's a culture shock as to what a punk kid whose series would probably be running alongside DBZ at 8 PM in Japan should be acting like.

[AgitoZ]

What the hell does a character's voice have to do with his depth? I think his actions speak much louder to his character than his voice.

And even if I agreed with your thought process of the voice having to do with the character's depth, then Sasaki Nozomu's performance works on another level. If he sounds like your average "shonen hero", whaaa, then it just further clashes with his actions and attitude, making him a much more interesting character.

[funrush]

The worst invented line is Bulma's "You don't think Vegeta would take us hostage to get Goku back here, do you?"

DERP.

And I seem to recall that the line was changed for the home release, wasn't it? Some rushed edited lines do happen.

From what I remember, the changed line was also inaccurate.

[Mewzard]

What the hell does a character's voice have to do with his depth? I think his actions speak much louder to his character than his voice.

And even if I agreed with your thought process of the voice having to do with the character's depth, then Sasaki Nozomu's performance works on another level. If he sounds like your average "shonen hero", whaaa, then it just further clashes with his actions and attitude, making him a much more interesting character.

Sounding in the same style as every other shonen hero doesn't make him more interesting, it'd make him less interesting. Breaking the traditional molds, and putting in an effort to try something that works more with the character than the role in that genre is much more appreciated.

A voice actor shouldn't solely let the story do all the telling in the character. The actor's performance should add to the story, should show character traits, mannerisms, and give them a voice that is unique to the character. Characters shouldn't all speak from the exact same vocabulary, with the same types of tones and inflections. That's part of what makes me like Goku in the Sub, and Kai's dub. They have their own voices, speak in certain ways (Dubs is less pronounced in it's style, but way it does it is enjoyable for me), their tones shift with the character's mood (child-like and joyful when happy, to rough and more aggressive when angered).

At least, that's how I view it. When the voice actors are doing a good job, you can feel it. You know you're not just watching a flip book while someone narrates, you're watching someone's life, as they go through some sort of event.

From what I remember, the changed line was also inaccurate.

The point was that particular line was what got him upset, the logistics behind it being unsound. The other line I recall being less irritating in that regard.

[AgitoZ]

So you want no subtlety to a character? Got it.

[Mewzard]

So you want no subtlety to a character? Got it.

Now that's just the complete opposite extreme. It's not that I don't want subtlety. It's just that I want the actor to deliver a performance that speaks for the character, and doesn't just read the same as any other character could be read. I think Justin Cook does a bit better of a job at it. When he does the role, I don't just feel like it's someone reading lines, it sounds like Yusuke. The character has his strengths and weaknesses, and I hear those reflected in the role (along with some well done emotional scenes), rather than having to just visually see them. Both voice and video work together to show the character.

There is nothing wrong with subtleties in a character, and it works for many characters. Yusuke isn't the most subtle of characters, and that being reflected in his attitude and way of speaking makes sense for the character.

It's like with Chris Ayres' Freeza. For many scenes, he captures the character's needed subtleties, but appropriate breaks the mold when the scene calls for it, as Freeza likes acting respectable, yet has seething rage underneath a facade of manners and politeness.

His Freeza, in fact, lets me go back to my original point. The lines they use for Freeza aren't always the most accurate translations, yet they chose translations that convey his character and the point of his conversations well enough that they enhance the spirit of things. Accuracy to a degree is good, but making sure that the characters' unique mannerisms and vocabularies are shown makes each of them sound like different people, beyond the voices themselves. No two people have the same experiences, so there's bound to be some differences, whether minor or major. Conveying how a person speaks or acts is the real challenge of the translator. They're not always easy to meet, especially if there's no real similar way to express such a character (reflecting dialects that might not have a matching counterpart, ways or shortening or altering words that don't mean the same thing when the English equivalent is done that way).

A lot of these situations are deciding what's more important: The Literal Translation, or conveying the meaning of any given scene/line, while factoring in who's speaking. Different people choose different methods. Ideally, one should fall between the direct translation, and the liberal re-write; leaning closer to the direct translation, but not being afraid to accurately capture the characters' way of being (and making sure any dialog isn't too stilted).

[AgitoZ]

It's like with Chris Ayres' Freeza. For many scenes, he captures the character's needed subtleties, but appropriate breaks the mold when the scene calls for it, as Freeza likes acting respectable, yet has seething rage underneath a facade of manners and politeness.

His Freeza, in fact, lets me go back to my original point. The lines they use for Freeza aren't always the most accurate translations, yet they chose translations that convey his character and the point of his conversations well enough that they enhance the spirit of things. Accuracy to a degree is good, but making sure that the characters' unique mannerisms and vocabularies are shown makes each of them sound like different people, beyond the voices themselves. No two people have the same experiences, so there's bound to be some differences, whether minor or major. Conveying how a person speaks or acts is the real challenge of the translator. They're not always easy to meet, especially if there's no real similar way to express such a character (reflecting dialects that might not have a matching counterpart, ways or shortening or altering words that don't mean the same thing when the English equivalent is done that way).


A lot of these situations are deciding what's more important: The Literal Translation, or conveying the meaning of any given scene/line, while factoring in who's speaking. Different people choose different methods. Ideally, one should fall between the direct translation, and the liberal re-write; leaning closer to the direct translation, but not being afraid to accurately capture the characters' way of being (and making sure any dialog isn't too stilted).

I'd agree with that statement if one of the changed lines wasn't "Hey fats!". At that point in the series we're still supposed to believe he's a polite, cool-headed, sadistic mastermind, and lines like that sound more out of character than better conveyance of the character.

Yusuke isn't the most subtle of characters, and that being reflected in his attitude and way of speaking makes sense for the character.

Probably because it's all but lost in the dub.

[jjgp1112]

I don't know what Yu Yu Hakusho you're watching, but Yusuke is the absolute FARTHEST thing from anything resembling subtle. And this is coming from someone who's read the manga a ton. I think Justin Cook's voice is perfect for a guy like him. Hell, it's pretty the voice that automatically comes to my head when I think of characters like Yusuke.

[Mewzard]

I'd agree with that statement if one of the changed lines wasn't "Hey fats!". At that point in the series we're still supposed to believe he's a polite, cool-headed, sadistic mastermind, and lines like that sound more out of character than better conveyance of the character.

One could say that it was a sign that the stress was starting to let loose bits of his inner rage, since he's been struggling with finding the Dragon Balls and getting his wish for some time.

But even if that's not the case, one line being off does not undo the fantastic dialog Freeza has had for his Namek Adventure.

Probably because it's all but lost in the dub.

I've read the entire manga and watched the entire anime. The man's common response to a threat is to charge at it and punch, and move to the Spirit Gun if that doesn't work. He's a street brawler who has no interest in education or most normal facets of life. He enjoys fighting, and lives it whenever he can. He doesn't give it up for some deeper meaning. He keeps fighting, even going to the Demon World because he's bored and wanted to deal with Raizen. He destroyed Raizen's Nations entire treasury to have drawed lots for a tournament. He groped a transgendered demon just to make sure it was one to get Kuwabara to stop complaining about him "hitting a woman".

Yusuke isn't subtle, and that's shown throughout the entire series. Every lesson he learns just about has to be hammered into his head.

[SRB2Unleashed]

^ So uhm...how bout dat TV Broadcast of Kai?


Anyways, when are FUNi gonna send the Kikuchi tapes of 52-63? If they won't get it, 4Kids wont get it, and I really want to see their crazy edits!

[Mewzard]

^ So uhm...how bout dat TV Broadcast of Kai?


Anyways, when are FUNi gonna send the Kikuchi tapes of 52-63? If they won't get it, 4Kids wont get it, and I really want to see their crazy edits!

Good point. I don't know if I ever mentioned it, but I was excited to see Mr. Satan's first appearance in the show, and after finally getting around to watching it, it feels good to hear that familiar ball of cheese back into the thick of things. No wrestler-sounding theme, but Chris Rager really can do the role regardless. Can't wait to see the start of the Cell Games.

[AgitoZ]

One could say that it was a sign that the stress was starting to let loose bits of his inner rage, since he's been struggling with finding the Dragon Balls and getting his wish for some time.

But even if that's not the case, one line being off does not undo the fantastic dialog Freeza has had for his Namek Adventure.

The problem is that it's not just one line.

I've read the entire manga and watched the entire anime. The man's common response to a threat is to charge at it and punch, and move to the Spirit Gun if that doesn't work. He's a street brawler who has no interest in education or most normal facets of life. He enjoys fighting, and lives it whenever he can. He doesn't give it up for some deeper meaning. He keeps fighting, even going to the Demon World because he's bored and wanted to deal with Raizen. He destroyed Raizen's Nations entire treasury to have drawed lots for a tournament. He groped a transgendered demon just to make sure it was one to get Kuwabara to stop complaining about him "hitting a woman".

Yusuke isn't subtle, and that's shown throughout the entire series. Every lesson he learns just about has to be hammered into his head.

I don't think you quite get what I mean when I say subtle. The performance is subtle because it contrasts with the character so greatly. It's like Horikawa's performance of Vegeta. You'd think he'd have this angry, over the top performance, but instead has this smooth performance with contrasts greatly with his actions.

I guess you all just expect that the character has to be spelled out to you through the performance.

As for the TV broadcast, Rager still sounds magnificent.

[jjgp1112]

Yusuke doesn't need to have a voice that contrasts with his character. What you see with him is what you get, plain and simple. There's no real subtleties that need to be drawn out of him, otherwise you're just being overambitious, meethinks.