Pop Culture and Dragon Ball

[Mattias]

Hey, guys. This just came to mind while I was discussing another topic.

Before you guys get very far, understand that this is going to be a topic about the English production of Dragon Ball. There will be no things like "omg liek deth to FUNi" or anything of that nature, so don't worry.

Instead, one thing that intrigues me is how the pop culture changes regarding the music as Dragon Ball Z progresses. At first, the theme song had some kind of twisted heavy metal rock-out theme complete with chanting. The music in the show (by Shuki Levy, I believe) used orchestral-based sounds in the background to accompany what was going on during the show.

During Dragon Ball Z's next run, when they had a completely new set of EVERYTHING, the music seemed to change. The heavy metal style remained during the theme song (a different theme altogether, related with the theme used when episode title text appeared). But one thing that went under complete changes is the background score.

Of course, as a musician and composer myself, I'm not a big fan of the score (who was it before Mark Menza? The name has escaped me). But that's not what I'm here to discuss. The entire score contains an electric guitar blasting out those low, bass-clef chords. Instead of a wider variety of sounds used by Shuki Levy, this has seemed to take some kind of teen-angst "Life sucks" theme. Was this intended, since Dragon Ball Z is heavily marketed towards teenagers? Or, was this just what the guy sitting in front of his Yamaha synthesizer wanted to do?

When Mark Menza took over, I'm not sure about the direction of the music since I saw a different version of Dragon Ball Z during the Cell Games to the end, so hopefully somebody can add to this portion of the discussion.

Now, here's the interesting part. We've gotten past the teen-angst portion. Now for Dragon Ball GT, the theme song has taken on an urban, rap theme. I guess for marketing purposes, this would make the most sense since I guess this is the stuff that teenagers listen to these days. For the score used in the show, I still don't know about how its direction, so if anybody could help out, that would be cool.

Basically, I'm just trying to argue that the changes in pop culture have really affected the production and marketing of the whole Dragon Ball franchise. But, wait a minute, Dragon Ball took a step backwards by marketing English versions of the original Japanese opening and ending themes, plus the original background music. Suddenly, from this whole angsty "Life sucks, west side, yo" we've gone to something much more light-hearted and charming. Why would FUNimation, who was going with a different direction with Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT, suddenly make this change?

What do you all think?

[Bejiita]

Here's what I think, I like these sort of topics...


The intro to DBZ isn't really a bother to me because it's a show that is good...and the Ocean intro to DBZ isn't exactly good. One thing I do like about it, is the fact that it's less rock 'n roll than the Funi intro, never the less, both intro's stink.

The BGM sounds different in each saga for the dub, and it's a good thing in a small way, yes, I actually like the fact that Funimation didn't keep the original BGM score, I've only just realised, it's what makes the Japanese so unique to the dub. If the dub had the same score, there wouldn't be much difference, so I'm glad there a kind of major difference between the two. I still kind of wished they kept the original score for everyone's benefit though.

The BGM in the Saiyan saga dub is nothing special, I think the Freeza saga had a certain spooky theme to it's score which kind of suited the Namek setting, that saga's BGM was actually acceptable to me, I remember certain scenes with music I actually liked...a bit. The Cell saga with the Cell theme gave it a techno feel, and it's used to many times and spoils scenes, it's not that good, but the Buu saga is where things improve and some music is rememberable.

Making GT a rap themed show to try and gain a new crowd basically, and then that crowd watch DBZ and Funi make more doh, they think people are stupid. Personally I don't care becase DBZ is the on they should have gotten right, GT isn't all that good anyway.

That's all.

[Li'l Lemmy]

The BGM in the Saiyan saga dub is nothing special, I think the Freeza saga had a certain spooky theme to it's score which kind of suited the Namek setting, that saga's BGM was actually acceptable to me, I remember certain scenes with music I actually liked...a bit. The Cell saga with the Cell theme gave it a techno feel, and it's used to many times and spoils scenes, it's not that good, but the Buu saga is where things improve and some music is rememberable.

For the sake of discussion, my thoughts on the matter:


The BGM in the "Saiyan saga" wasn't bad, though honestly I can't seem to call into my head any particular tune . . . well, aside from whatever the hell is playing when Goku and Vegeta first meet up (if anyone here even remembers that scene from the original dub). That was awesome. Though it makes me wonder what was pulled from the original score for that moment, which was obviously an important scene.

Pop-Culture effect: As an action series, DBZ was probably meant to grab a share of the boys/tweens market in those days; I think the music was composed to suit that purpose.

The Freeza/Namek sagas were when Faulconer first made the scene, and with the situation as brutal and desperate as it became on Namek I think the accompanying music fit that particular set of episodes . . . but a lot of that music got dropped after the arrival of the Androids, and (for the most part) you won't hear any of it from Babidi onward.

Pop-Culture effect: The end of the Namek saga marked the transition in VA's and BGM, and for a lot of people the change was startling. I think the music was more about Faulconer trying to find a feel and tone for the series than anything else . . . but at any rate, people kept watching.

The Cell sagas were where the music started to pick up just a bit, though it was still rooted in that same gothic tone as which ran through most of the Freeza saga. Some music was reused, a bunch of it was dumped and a few bits of original music began creeping in . . . and where there wasn't action, other music was created for the "fluff" scenes and cropped up now and then even in the later sagas. I got the impression here that Faulconer was starting to enjoy his work and refine it from the "experimental" attitude of the Freeza saga.

Pop-Culture effect: The Cell sagas marked a transitional period for the series' music as a whole; it wasn't quite so heavy and somber as the Freeza saga (which never quite knew where it wanted to "go"), and felt a bit more practiced, but at the same time it didn't yet have the cohesion and tone of the upcoming Buu arc. Experimentation and attitude was the flavor of the action themes that permeated throughout the epic that was Cell . . . though whether it helped to make Dragonball Z as popular as it became right then, I don't really know.

The Buu sagas were where the music really started to come together, or at least that's what it sounded like to me. More of the score is memorable here than from anywhere else in the Faulconer era; a lot of it was driven by the momentum of the scene or the character's attitude, and the variety is much wider and spaced out so that the score doesn't repeat itself too much; all of this as opposed to music being tossed around at random and glued wherever it felt appropriate, which is the impression I'd usually gotten from the dub music up to that point.

Pop-Culture effect: The Cell Games marked the height of DBZ's popularity, I believe, which must have had something of an impact on the musical score for the remainder of the series. DBZ was being taken seriously by the fans and the music may have been overhauled to reflect that; the BGM became more serious and sometimes even touching in its effort to complement the scenes, and some of the more familiar tunes of standard fluff were redone. More original music emerged during Buu than in the rest of the Z sagas combined, and most dub fans consider the SSJ3 theme . . . which is unique to the Buu sagas . . . to be Faulconer's "opus". The story of Majin Buu was where the dub music was at its most cohesive and fluent.

Dragonball GT marked yet another transition in that Faulconer was switched for Mark Menza, who brought his own unique feel to this final chapter . . . but it was a very unusual feeling. Not everyone can agree with it. If you don't mind that the score has something of a pop-n'-lock, let's-get-funky groove to it, the mood it conveys gives off a dark and gloomy vibe, and is almost always a-twinge with an air of hoplessness and despair . . . even when Goku gains the upper hand. It's a drastic change to the musical evolution seen through Z and feels somewhat out of place.

Pop-Culture effect: Dragonball GT was meant to be an action-packed continuation of DBZ for the American market (hence the throwaway of the first 16 episodes), but at the same time it had to be different to bring in new viewers. A completely new composer was brought in, a new musical score was created and a "new" twist on an aging series was born in order to energize the franchise and exploit the brand for one final time. While the main theme had nothing to do with Menza (it was the winning entry in a contest to find a theme for GT), the music is essentially in that same action-esque, fast-paced vein . . . and since GT sorta lost control of the steering wheel in some points, perhaps in that regard the music suits it in some places.

The redub "Vegeta Saga" music is moody and has a polished feel to it, but at the same time it feels a bit "generic" and empty after having watched Faulconer's Dragonball Z. Faulconer's stuff isn't exactly in the same league as the Japanese score, but by the end of Z he'd done what he could to develop character-specific music and was better about where it was placed, along with a few memorable stand-alone pieces (such as SSJ3 Goku). Perhaps the redub music would have branched out, but unless they redub all of DBZ we'll never know for sure.

Pop-Culture effect: Hell if I know. It's nothing like Faulconer's music, but the argument that this new score was meant to satisfy fans who have been clamoring for something closer to the original could be equally abstract, since it's about as close to that as Faulconer's was. And neither one of them seems to know that a few moments of silence isn't going to kill anything.

Oh, well. It's all just one man's opinion, after all.


(Li'l Lemmy, ready to kick back with a long yawn.)

[Mattias]

The Buu sagas were where the music really started to come together, or at least that's what it sounded like to me. More of the score is memorable here than from anywhere else in the Faulconer era; a lot of it was driven by the momentum of the scene or the character's attitude, and the variety is much wider and spaced out so that the score doesn't repeat itself too much; all of this as opposed to music being tossed around at random and glued wherever it felt appropriate, which is the impression I'd usually gotten from the dub music up to that point.

Dragonball GT marked yet another transition in that Faulconer was switched for Mark Menza, who brought his own unique feel to this final chapter . . . but it was a very unusual feeling. Not everyone can agree with it. If you don't mind that the score has something of a pop-n'-lock, let's-get-funky groove to it, the mood it conveys gives off a dark and gloomy vibe, and is almost always a-twinge with an air of hoplessness and despair . . . even when Goku gains the upper hand. It's a drastic change to the musical evolution seen through Z and feels somewhat out of place.

Pop-Culture effect: Dragonball GT was meant to be an action-packed continuation of DBZ for the American market (hence the throwaway of the first 16 episodes), but at the same time it had to be different to bring in new viewers. A completely new composer was brought in, a new musical score was created and a "new" twist on an aging series was born in order to energize the franchise and exploit the brand for one final time. While the main theme had nothing to do with Menza (it was the winning entry in a contest to find a theme for GT), the music is essentially in that same action-esque, fast-paced vein . . . and since GT sorta lost control of the steering wheel in some points, perhaps in that regard the music suits it in some places.

To my understanding, I thought that Mark Menza was brought in right around the Buu saga. I think there were even rumours of Bruce Faulconer petitioning to see if he can get his job back.

Also, it seems as if Faulconer was more of a "mixer" as opposed to a composer. I haven't heard much of Mark Menza, but this guy seems more of a composer or song-writer. I haven't really seen his resume, so I'm not familiar with his work.

Thanks for your responses, guys. I'm just trying to see if anybody else has anything to add to this topic.

[Duo]

No, Falcouner did all the way to the end of Dragonball Z. He was petitioning to get GT.

[Kirbopher]

I will say that Dragonball Z has the ONLY U.S. Soundtrack I've ever liked among any other anime that'd had its original background music replaced. I didn't like the old fashioned Megaman-style music from the first two seasons, but the Bruce Falconer music was AWESOME. I'm a lot more accustomed to it than I am with the Japanese soundtrack of Z (I AM accustomed to the original BGM of Dragonball and DBGT) and even the intro, which I think was called "Prelude to Terror" on the Trunks Saga album, was a pretty cool rock tune.

That soundtrack had a lot more substance to it than the usual synthesized music you'd see on a 4kids dub for instance. The themes of Trunks, Vegeta, Cell and Buu have become big favorites of mine, as well as the SS3 Transformation track. I REALLY wish he could've gotten to do the GT soundtrack, since it would've been an addequite substitute for the normal GT music that I was slighty accustomed to from the few Japanese episodes I had seen already. The new soundtrack from the redub of the Saiyan and Namek sagas has been okay, at least, but I still would've preffered them having the Bruce Falconer Soundtrack for those :<

[Mattias]

Guys, I'm not trying to discuss the quality of the music and the choice of the musicians. I'm trying to discuss the CHOICE for the music being the way it was for its English release.

Something else to consider is that Dragon Ball also had its music replaced during its original 13-episode adaptation. But since then, FUNimation decided to go with the original music during its re-dub. This seems to make sense since the music that was used in the English version was similar to the Japanese original, light-hearted and somewhat charming (although not as catchy).

Perhaps they didn't want the themes of DBZ and GT re-hashed for Dragon Ball?

[Kirbopher]

I think they kept Dragonball's original BGM because at the time it was being shown as something that came before DBZ, and DBZ had gotten most of its attention before Dragonball (a lot of people didn't even know about Dragonball at the time, even with those first 13 episodes). So, maybe in order to keep its 'old school' (forgive me for using that term) feel, they kept the original music to make it feel like it was from many years ago since...it was.