Saban-Era DBZ Biblical Refrences

[Akumaito Beam]

In the first two seasons of dub DBZ there was quite a few biblical refrences. Piccolo mentions David and Goliath, Bulma makes a bad joke about forbidden fruit and Kuririn recites part of a christian prayer when he Gohan and Dende were almost spotted by Vegeta. I was just wondering what the dealio was with that? Was there a particularly religious script writer on staff or being the 90's were those being made to appease the fundie crowed when they were at their height? Something else entirely?

[TheBlackPaladin]

In all likelihood, they were simply one of the many instances of "let's be cool" moments...in other words, moments when the script adapters looked at the translation, didn't care to use an exact or approximate translation, and essentially thought, "let's be cool," and write something else entirely. The ironic thing being that many of these "let's be cool" moments were not, in fact cool...and certainly not mondo-cool.

Okay, sorry, couldn't resist that last bit.

Having said that, there is something interesting I find about the biblical references. To me, it serves as an example of what we could NEVER get away with in today's politically-correct society. Biblical references, out-of-character and out-of-universe though they may be, are comparatively dark to what most people would dare put on kid's TV nowadays. Especially in the context of an anime dub. We were okay with it then, and now all of a sudden somebody has a problem with phrases like "spirit bomb," and "galick gun," even though there are no actual bombs or guns in either instance. For the most part, I think we have come a LONG way as far as anime dubs are concerned. On the other hand, part of me longs for the 90's when everyone wasn't so offended by freakin' everything.

[KiddoCabbusses]

Having said that, there is something interesting I find about the biblical references. To me, it serves as an example of what we could NEVER get away with in today's politically-correct society. Biblical references, out-of-character and out-of-universe though they may be, are comparatively dark to what most people would dare put on kid's TV nowadays. Especially in the context of an anime dub. We were okay with it then, and now all of a sudden somebody has a problem with phrases like "spirit bomb," and "galick gun," even though there are no actual bombs or guns in either instance. For the most part, I think we have come a LONG way as far as anime dubs are concerned. On the other hand, part of me longs for the 90's when everyone wasn't so offended by freakin' everything.

The ironic thing is that it's very possible those religious references were put there in the first place to try to appeal to the censors of the time, who'd lean towards wanting most programs to want Protestant Christian values. Nowadays censors prefer more "politically-correct" secular or athestic values.

[Innagadadavida]

I'm not sure if whatever-dark-mysterious-censorer in question has changed values in the past decade. I think the shift in "political correctness" has more to do with the public and viewer reaction. The biblical references were most likely part of the larger over-Americanization that went on in the script writing process for the original DBZ dub. Look toward the other American cartoons and/or Anime dubs that were around in the time, I bet you'd find more biblical references than you would in today's media. DBZ played on Saturday mornings then, where you would find a lot of cartoons containing various lessons and morals. Most of which followed basic Judeo-Christian values. This precident probably made it hard to get a show as different as Dragon Ball Z on air. The goal was probably to assimilate Dragon Ball to the American shows at the time. I don't believe it was any sort of brain-washing or propaganda, just business.

I'd prefer a few incorrect lines over Blue Popo or Death Orbs any day.

[SpacePie8]

Toriyama clearly liked making references to western culture. Click my link and do a find search for "Dan Schelp", here's a list of comparisons he made..the last point I just can't get enough of, as both a Vegeta fangirl and a Christian:

* The virgin birth of Jesus, and Goku's introduction to the world as an orphan from a distant planet.
* The sinless nature of both Jesus and Goku (there are numerous references throughout Dragonball to the purity of Goku's spirit).
* Both Jesus and Goku have disciples (for Goku it's the Z fighters).
* Goku is the "savior" of the world (in the movie Bardock: Father of Goku, there is a reference to Goku that "A Savior is born").
* Goku dies in his efforts to save the world, and is brought back to life so he can complete his mission.
Goku, in describing himself to Freeza, makes several comments worthy of the Son of Man; e.g., "I am the light to the darkness."
* Gohan, Goku's son, is half Saiyan/half man, a clear parallel to the dual nature of Christ as being both true God and true man. Gohan, too, is pure and innocent of nature.
* Goku's disciples admit that they would continue to be evil if not for the intervention of Goku.
* Gohan, when Goku comes to confront Freeza, tells his father, "I believe in you."
* Goku again sacrifices himself to save the world from Cell. Vegeta, representing our human nature, cannot understand his sacrifice, but is humbled by it, and admits that his love of pride and honor cannot compare.

http://www.crossroad.to/text/responses/dragonball-z.htm

[Gonstead]

Toriyama clearly liked making references to western culture.

Goku, in describing himself to Freeza, makes several comments worthy of the Son of Man; e.g., "I am the light to the darkness."

http://www.crossroad.to/text/responses/dragonball-z.htm

Reminds me of this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Tlpfy5QXY

[Rocketman]

Japan is not a Christian country. Any references you think you see are only creations of your worldview.

[Pokewhiz7]

Majin Buu cured a boy's blindness, which was a miracle, and Jesus works miracles. I think he might have even cured someone's blindness in the Bible, IIRC.

[Innagadadavida]

Woah, that is some nutjob nonsense right there. These are complete fabrications written by someone projecting their own worldview on a story that has nothing to do with it.

* The virgin birth of Jesus, and Goku's introduction to the world as an orphan from a distant planet.

Goku was not born of a virgin. He was sent to earth on a space pod by a race of battle-hungry planet-thieves who intended to use him to murder the entire planet. If anything that bares more similarities to the Antichrist.

* The sinless nature of both Jesus and Goku (there are numerous references throughout Dragonball to the purity of Goku's spirit).

Goku is far from sinless. He sent his own son to an uncertain fate against an insane biological creation of man because he was projecting his own ambitions on a child who just wants to stay home and read.

* Both Jesus and Goku have disciples (for Goku it's the Z fighters).

Jesus was neither the first, nor last figure to build a following. And Goku's friends are hardly his disciples. Most of his friends are enemies that side with him out of necessity and survival.

* Goku is the "savior" of the world (in the movie Bardock: Father of Goku, there is a reference to Goku that "A Savior is born").

Again, Jesus was neither the first nor last figure to be considered a "savior". Goku saves people. So does Batman and Spiderman. Just because a character is a hero, it doesn't mean they were intended to be an allegory to the savior of the Christian faith. Moreover, if I were still a Christian, I wouldn't want a character as flawed and selfish as Goku to be a stand-in for Jesus.

* Goku dies in his efforts to save the world, and is brought back to life so he can complete his mission.

Twice. Jesus did that once. Goku has him beat on that one. Resurrection is a very common supernatural occurrence in fictional stories. Its an easily identifiable event. Because our loved ones all die, and we want to see them alive again. It's something everybody likes to hear about, so its only natural Toriyama would include it in his story which he wrote to make money.

Goku, in describing himself to Freeza, makes several comments worthy of the Son of Man; e.g., "I am the light to the darkness."

Dub quote. Not from Toriyama. Part of the OP's point with all the Christian references in the dub.

* Gohan, Goku's son, is half Saiyan/half man, a clear parallel to the dual nature of Christ as being both true God and true man. Gohan, too, is pure and innocent of nature.

So, who is Jesus? Goku or Gohan?

* Goku's disciples admit that they would continue to be evil if not for the intervention of Goku.

Redemption is another popular literary theme.

* Gohan, when Goku comes to confront Freeza, tells his father, "I believe in you."

The concept of Belief isn't limited to Christianity. Lots of people of many faiths or lack thereof believe in many things.

* Goku again sacrifices himself to save the world from Cell. Vegeta, representing our human nature, cannot understand his sacrifice, but is humbled by it, and admits that his love of pride and honor cannot compare.

Ugh..

[MarcFBR]

I liked the time Jesus stole the girls panties and smacked her in the crotch.

[KiddoCabbusses]

I like the time Jesus punched a hole in an alien's stomach.

[Perfect]

Yeah that Majin Buu parallel is probably the only legit thing I can think of. Anything else is really just cross-contextual speculation that's mainly parsed on reading comprehension; like any work of literature.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Well shoot, here comes the reaction train to a guy misinterpreting the dub. Don't read too much into it now.

* Goku again sacrifices himself to save the world from Cell. Vegeta, representing our human nature, cannot understand his sacrifice, but is humbled by it, and admits that his love of pride and honor cannot compare.

That said, this one's pretty darn intriguing, even after the Goku-is-a-saint stretch. You could throw some existential baggage onto Vegeta.

Only actual reference I remember was David and Goliath on Piccolo's end, which was an apt basic analogy considering Nappa's blatant disrespect for damn near everything, ignoring Piccolo's thinking himself a demon at the time.

[samuraix123]

Not trying to start anything here or offend any of my fellow Dragonballers, but I believe in Christ, But I never really paid attention-ed to there being any Christian references in Dragonball Z? Whenever I get all the level's complete I'll haft to pay attention to it. But to be honest I think they should have left out the Christian stuff in the Dragonball Universe.(I'm speaking of quoting Bible Verses only! But I like the after life stuff in Dragonball) Because I don't watch Dragonball for bible verses

Not trying to stir off topic or anything. But does akira toriyama even Believe in any kind of an after life?(I mean after all there is a hell in Dragonball universe and I guess kinda of a heaven? I'm not trying to imply just because he put it in there, then that must mean he believes) I mean *Wow* I just started thinking about the 666 being on the side's of that car that Gohan and videl ride in


Really quick funny story. When I was younger I would watch the Bojack movie in the living room and the crowd would chant Mr. Satan over and over again.(you guys know what I'm talking about) And Satan would come out of that tunnel and say Mr. Satan you are one crafty devil. And my Grandma would freak and say Turn that devil worshipin crap off lol And my Grandpa kept saying, *When is Gohan going to save them*( he didn't know who he was) so when he seen piccolo or anybody else. He would say Get him Gohan! I miss them a lot

I really like this picture a lot

[MCDaveG]

I don't like my hero being Jesus, that does not compute. Goku is not Jesus in any aspect.

[SpacePie8]

Not trying to start anything here or offend any of my fellow Dragonballers, but I believe in Christ, But I never really paid attention-ed to there being any Christian references in Dragonball Z? Whenever I get all the level's complete I'll haft to pay attention to it. But to be honest I think they should have left out the Christian stuff in the Dragonball Universe.(I'm speaking of quoting Bible Verses only! But I like the after life stuff in Dragonball) Because I don't watch Dragonball for bible verses

I never looked for references or tried to make parallels. I was curious what people could be saying about it though so I did a google search and found that link. I don't know, but I have a feeling Toriyama is not a God-fearing man, otherwise he probably wouldn't have named two characters after Satan, plus the 666 on the car as you mentioned.

Yeah, and I've always noticed when the people chant "SATAN! SATAN! SATAN!". I lmao every time.

Great pic of Goku by the way, I love him with the wings.

[Bussani]

I don't know, but I have a feeling Toriyama is not a God-fearing man, otherwise he probably wouldn't have named two characters after Satan, plus the 666 on the car as you mentioned.

Like Rocketman said, Japan isn't a Christian country. Christianity accounts for less than 1% of the population, so such references wouldn't mean anything special to most people there.

[dario03]

I would be interested in knowing what the original Japanese lines were. It could be that maybe they originally said something religious but from a eastern religion or old popular myth, stories. Using those stories in english speaking countries might not work because a lot of people won't know what the refrence is.
Even if your not religious just about everybody knows what David and Goliath means, its a common saying even by non-christians.
Forbidden fruit has more religious tones to it but still the culture in english speaking countries make it so a lot of people will know what its talking about even if their not Christian.
The prayer would be the most religious part since it makes it seem like Krillin is Christian. But what does he say and how does he say it?

[Wobbuffet]

I don't know, but I have a feeling Toriyama is not a God-fearing man, otherwise he probably wouldn't have named two characters after Satan, plus the 666 on the car as you mentioned.

Maybe Toriyama thinks that God have better things to do than mind some jokes on a fictional work.
That is particularly what I think.

[Ashura]

Like Rocketman said, Japan isn't a Christian country. Christianity accounts for less than 1% of the population, so such references wouldn't mean anything special to most people there.

That doesn't mean there are any less biblical references all over anime... take a look at Evangelion, for instance. It might be the hugest example, but an example none-the-less. Often creators find religion as interesting story spice, even if they do not believe.

Dragonball's world seems to exist in an odd mishmash of a bunch of different religions, caricatured in a way that was funny to Toriyama. Just as the Dragon World is an odd mishmash of a bunch of different things from all over our world.

Also, another thing to note is that interpretation based upon similarities has no bearing on intent. Even if a lot of the things Goku does were probably not meant to make him a Jesus analogue, that does not mean that there's no inherent merit in discussing that similarities exist. That happens all the time in these sort of discussions, and it's just kind of interesting. Mind you, I think it would be more interesting to discuss the similarities between all religions -- not just Christianity -- since it seems that DB pulls from a lot of sources. Remember that there are also more than one interpretation of Jesus, too... for instance, there's one where he's the son of God, and another where he was just a really good dude. That kind of thing.

I think a lot of sources for things go back to what words they use; for instance, the big debate of which specific god Kami-sama's meant to be. I think even looking into how this was handled internationally would be interesting.

Honestly, this sounds like a good podcast episode if there hasn't been one yet. Religion in Dragon Ball! Well researched podcast people... jump down the rabbit hole and get on that!