FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

[Kingdom Heartless]

I'll still wait for the next FUNi release. The Levels look awesome, but still not perfect, and I want a perfect release.

I'd say that won't happen, but it's hard to predict just what Funimation will do at any given time.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I'll still wait for the next FUNi release. The Levels look awesome, but still not perfect, and I want a perfect release.

I'd say that won't happen, but it's hard to predict just what Funimation will do at any given time.

Well, I know FUNi isn't to trust, but I can still hope!

[dballfan]

This cinches it for me, I don't want to waste money on these levels.

Even though I can see 3 shades and you can't, I don't think you should be so brash in using a screenshot to conclude that you won't be buying these sets. I think we can agree that screenshots are by no means an ideal medium to cultivate an opinion on 1080p bluray motion. The inimitable way would be to go and pick them up. You brought up the grain "issue", which has already been purported as cardinal in conceiving the 1080p picture, but if it is an off-put I recommend you check these out: (I know the Tien one is a bit strange)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAjQoWadMCw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRbbRNNNC-I

Even through youtube and with DNR I can safely say the level sets outclass all previous releases in pertinence to video quality. I still find it baffling how others can argue otherwise - a DVD vs a Bluray? Come on.

[TripleRach]

FUNimation is not using their old masters for the Blu-ray. Their actually using the original film masters from Toei.

Do you have any proof of that?

I mean, FUNimation keeps saying "the original Japanese film masters" but that's really vague phrasing. All film masters would have originally come from Japan, unless international licensors started making copies for each other or something.

And I find it extremely unlikely that Toei would take the original original masters out of cold storage and ship them across the Pacific Ocean. At most they might have made new prints from the original masters and sent those to FUNimation, but I don't think there's been any evidence of that either.

[VegettoEX]

Not only that, but I was specifically told by a FUNimation representative that yes, these are the exact same film masters used for the orange bricks in 2007... which we knew for a fact back then were not first-generation copies.

Folks need to learn to separate marketing talk from reality a little bit more. If they can't, that just means FUNimation is doing an amazing job with their vagueness to convince you of things that aren't true without actually lying to you .

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It's obvious FUNi isn't using the original film masters, since the title cards are in English.
On a side note, I have a question. Are the Levels' openings the same with the Season sets or the Dragon Box sets?

[Metalwario64]

a DVD vs a Bluray? Come on.

It's... not as simple as that.

There are Blu-Rays with lots of DVNR and contrast boosting that look noticeably worse than their DVD counterparts. Just because it's on Blu-ray doesn't automatically make it superior to everything else available.

As for that Piccolo shot, it's impossible to deny that you have to look much harder to distinguish the shading, which isn't a good thing in the slightest. There's also shots that show other details lost/blurred due to the film being too dark (such as Raditz' scouter), so it's not just a problem with the first episode.

Such an example:

Blu-Ray Downscaled (click for full size):


Dragon Box:


The details in his ears were blurred and are very hard to distinguish in the BD footage. Also, Raditz' hair is black in every shot I've seen, as opposed to the dark blue it's supposed to be. It's also harder to distinguish details in the areas of his scouter that are the darkest shade of green. Those are definitely flaws.

[jjgp1112]

That's the thing...I didn't even have to look hard. I open the picture, looked at Piccolo's leg, and BAM, the shading was there clearly. And my monitor is on eco settings and darker than most.

[Metalwario64]

That's the thing...I didn't even have to look hard. I open the picture, looked at Piccolo's leg, and BAM, the shading was there clearly. And my monitor is on eco settings and darker than most.

The RGB values for the darkest shade his pants are r:0 b:0 g:0, and the next shade up is r:2 b:17 g:1. That's on a scale of 255. There's hardly a difference between them.

The details between them are also very blurred due to how dark and similar in color they are, whereas the separation is clean on the Dragon Box footage.

[dballfan]

a DVD vs a Bluray? Come on.

It's... not as simple as that.

There are Blu-Rays with lots of DVNR and contrast boosting that look noticeably worse than their DVD counterparts. Just because it's on Blu-ray doesn't automatically make it superior to everything else available.

As for that Piccolo shot, it's impossible to deny that you have to look much harder to distinguish the shading, which isn't a good thing in the slightest. There's also shots that show other details lost/blurred due to the film being too dark (such as Raditz' scouter), so it's not just a problem with the first episode.

Such an example:

Blu-Ray Downscaled (click for full size):


Dragon Box:


The details in his ears were blurred and are very hard to distinguish in the BD footage. Also, Raditz' hair is black in every shot I've seen, as opposed to the dark blue it's supposed to be. It's also harder to distinguish details in the areas of his scouter that are the darkest shade of green. Those are definitely flaws.

I think its more of a flaw for Raditz's hair to bee blue one minute and black and the next, as opposed to being black all together...Look at the screenshot uploaded by 'Kentaiblog'.
1.1:
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/497/bd8v.png
Dragon Box
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/5945/box8.png

Its more black there on the dragon box, but sometimes its a pretty clear blue. I thinks that's pretty big flaw in terms of consistency.

[Metalwario64]

Its more black there on the dragon box, but sometimes its a pretty clear blue. I thinks that's pretty big flaw in terms of consistency.

It's definitely blue there on the Dragon Box, whereas on the Blu-Ray shot it's the same color as the black on his armor. Also, even if his hair was constantly shifting color, why would you try to correct animation flaws when you should be presenting the show as close to the source as possible?

Also, this is another good shot which further helps my point:


In the Blu-Ray version of the shot, the line work in Piccolo's pants is blurred and almost destroyed due to being too dark. It can be clearly seen in the Dragon Box footage.

Even lowering the contrast shows that the detail is just gone there:

[dbboxkaifan]

FUNimation is not using their old masters for the Blu-ray. Their actually using the original film masters from Toei.

Erm, if that's true, then they should've included the DBZ NEPs and the Japanese cards (optionally, at least!).

Metalwario64 @ It's called a Blu-ray.

[dballfan]

I see where your coming from with the darkness but you could argue that ok its 'dark' but than you could say that the dragon boxes are also too light. Look at the difference in the sky's, 1.1 looks a lot better and the grass looks so dim in comparison to 1.1 too. Either way in most thorough reviews, in terms of video quality, everyone has said 1.1 is superior (Read Kentai's blogspot if you haven't already they went into lots of detail)
If you compare both the dragon boxes and the level sets to the original you'll see that the level sets are superior.

And about which generation was used I think it was 2nd generation according to most people and in Kentai's blog he has some points to back it up to suggest the same.

[Metalwario64]

Metalwario64 @ It's called a Blu-ray.

Erm... Okay?...

If you compare both the dragon boxes and the level sets to the original you'll see that the level sets are superior.

It's a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that lost details do not make a superior product. I like some of the colors better, but the darkness just puts the Dragon Boxes above it for me.

[dballfan]

Metalwario64 @ It's called a Blu-ray.

Erm... Okay?...

If you compare both the dragon boxes and the level sets to the original you'll see that the level sets are superior.

It's a matter of opinion, and my opinion is that lost details do not make a superior product. I like some of the colors better, but the darkness just puts the Dragon Boxes above it for me.

Well yes, it is subjective at the end of the day, but, you must admit the level sets are definitely more accurate to the original broadcast. In regards to something that was said a bit earlier in this thread about Raditz's skin being to 'yellow' - that it is how it should look. Here's a Japanese review on the difference between the Dragon Box and the Level sets.

http://worlddbz.net76.net/dbkcolour.htm

Just look at Vegeta's skin color in the original broadcast in comparision to the Dragon box - its very much like the 'yellow' skin which Raditz has in the levels.


And
@dbboxkaifan - That's getting a bit tedious now...-_-

[Metalwario64]

Well yes, it is subjective at the end of the day, but, you must admit the level sets are definitely more accurate to the original broadcast. In regards to something that was said a bit earlier in this thread about Raditz's skin being to 'yellow' - that it is how it should look. Here's a Japanese review on the difference between the Dragon Box and the Level sets.

http://worlddbz.net76.net/dbkcolour.htm

Just look at Vegeta's skin color in the original broadcast in comparision to the Dragon box - its very much like the 'yellow' skin which Raditz has in the levels.

That's actually Daizex member kei17's site. Anyway yeah, I've been following the color debate since around the time it became prevalent here. As I've said, I often prefer the overall color palette on the Blu-ray sets over the Dragon Boxes, as it's usually closer to the colors shown on the original broadcast, but whether it's due to age, or due to being film copies, they're usually too dark or washed out for my tastes.

I admit to not owning a Blu-ray set (nor entirely having the means to get them right now), so I can't say there won't be, or aren't episodes that overall look better than their Dragon Box counterparts, but so far what I've seen I'm okay with the Dragon Boxes and don't see a need to purchase a Blu-ray player and an HD TV for these over the Dragon Boxes.

[dballfan]

Well yes, it is subjective at the end of the day, but, you must admit the level sets are definitely more accurate to the original broadcast. In regards to something that was said a bit earlier in this thread about Raditz's skin being to 'yellow' - that it is how it should look. Here's a Japanese review on the difference between the Dragon Box and the Level sets.

http://worlddbz.net76.net/dbkcolour.htm

Just look at Vegeta's skin color in the original broadcast in comparision to the Dragon box - its very much like the 'yellow' skin which Raditz has in the levels.

That's actually Daizex member kei17's site. Anyway yeah, I've been following the color debate since around the time it became prevalent here. As I've said, I often prefer the overall color palette on the Blu-ray sets over the Dragon Boxes, as it's usually closer to the colors shown on the original broadcast, but whether it's due to age, or due to being film copies, they're usually too dark or washed out for my tastes.

I admit to not owning a Blu-ray set (nor entirely having the means to get them right now), so I can't say there won't be, or aren't episodes that overall look better than their Dragon Box counterparts, but so far what I've seen I'm okay with the Dragon Boxes and don't see a need to purchase a Blu-ray player and an HD TV for these over the Dragon Boxes.

That's fair enough. I mean there are different factors to consider for different people dependent on what they are after, but if your after the best visual experience 1.1 would take the dice. Its understandable some may not want to dish out on the levels so soon after the completion of the Dragon boxes. I'm just recommending this for anyone after the best quality.

What I don't like though is people who look for flaws in 1.1 and use the dragon box's as if they are the exemplary release. There a many flaws in the dragon boxes which outweigh the flaws in the level sets (there's a thread which shows how many problems there are with the Dragon Boxes).

[CyberpunkCentral]

FUNimation is not using their old masters for the Blu-ray. Their actually using the original film masters from Toei.

Do you have any proof of that?

I mean, FUNimation keeps saying "the original Japanese film masters" but that's really vague phrasing. All film masters would have originally come from Japan, unless international licensors started making copies for each other or something.

And I find it extremely unlikely that Toei would take the original original masters out of cold storage and ship them across the Pacific Ocean. At most they might have made new prints from the original masters and sent those to FUNimation, but I don't think there's been any evidence of that either.

FUNimation said that their using the original film masters for the Blu-ray, and not the old masters they used for the previous releases. Now it maybe likely that Funimation is using the same masters they used for the Orange Bricks. However, I notice there is some slight difference between the Orange Bricks and Blu-ray. Like for example the openings are slightly different from each other. Either way, I don't think FUNimation is using their first masters for the Blu-ray. They had to have gotten better masters even if it is just a copy of the original 16mm film.

[funrush]

FUNimation is not using their old masters for the Blu-ray. Their actually using the original film masters from Toei.

Do you have any proof of that?

I mean, FUNimation keeps saying "the original Japanese film masters" but that's really vague phrasing. All film masters would have originally come from Japan, unless international licensors started making copies for each other or something.

And I find it extremely unlikely that Toei would take the original original masters out of cold storage and ship them across the Pacific Ocean. At most they might have made new prints from the original masters and sent those to FUNimation, but I don't think there's been any evidence of that either.

FUNimation said that their using the original film masters for the Blu-ray, and not the old masters they used for the previous releases. Now it maybe likely that Funimation is using the same masters they used for the Orange Bricks. However, I notice there is some slight difference between the Orange Bricks and Blu-ray. Like for example the openings are slightly different from each other. Either way, I don't think FUNimation is using their first masters for the Blu-ray. They had to have gotten better masters even if it is just a copy of the original 16mm film.

As VegettoEX has already said, he went and asked a representative, and the representative said it was the same masters they used for the bricks, if it looks different to you, it's the remastering.

It's obvious FUNi isn't using the original film masters, since the title cards are in English.
On a side note, I have a question. Are the Levels' openings the same with the Season sets or the Dragon Box sets?

They use the Movie 1 opening.

[CyberpunkCentral]

As VegettoEX has already said, he went and asked a representative, and the representative said it was the same masters they used for the bricks, if it looks different to you, it's the remastering.

I never said it wasn't. Also, I'm not talking about the remastering. The opening for the Orange Brick Season One looks like one of the openings for the later episodes. Where as the Blu-ray has the actual opening for the Saiyan saga. Though I could be wrong.