Episode of Bardock: Giant On-Going Manga + Anime Discussion

[batistabus]

nowadays it is for some liberal douche bag reason

You mean conservative.

Most of the time, it really bothers me when people take Dragon Ball too seriously. A lot of fans have this conception of the show as something serious, action packed, and manly. That's only a portion of the show, and a very dull portion by itself. People hate characters like Mr. Satan because he's pathetic, annoying, and takes away from the hardcore ass-kicking they want to see. They're really missing out, and I always make it a point to defend these types of characters or this type of storytelling.

That being said...the original Bardock special WAS entirely serious. It was meant to be. Toriyama couldn't have written something like this himself, and that's why he was such a fan of it. It gave fans of the series something different. Something not quite true to the main story of Dragon Ball, yet it still fit into the same universe. Episode of Bardock totally destroyed that image. It tried to combine these two types of storytelling, and the end result is something that cannot be taken seriously by anyone. It is the type of thing that can only be enjoyed for what it is. Chilled is an awesome character with an awesome design and an awesome voice actor. Does he fit in with what we would want of more Bardock material? Probably not. I like the design of the Plantians, but they're possibly even less fitting.

The brightly colored back-drops and the shiny, round animation takes it a step further, and brings it away from both elements. It's definitely not serious, and it's way more exaggerated than Dragon Ball.

You see, the problem isn't that Toei produced something Dragon Ball related that was too kiddish. That's a part of Dragon Ball. That's the audience. That's who they sell the product to, and who they've always sold the product to. Standards change, but removing blood or little-boy penis doesn't ruin the show. Episode of Bardock's problem is that it doesn't fit into any category. It doesn't please Toriyama fans, and it doesn't please the serious fans. To even be able to enjoy it, you have to remove yourself from both of those mindsets, and just try to enjoy it for what it is.

And what is it? Stupid, logic-less fun, interesting characters, pretty/clean/colorful visuals, some fluid animation, great voice acting, and something new that will hopefully keep a precedent of new Dragon Ball features going for years to come.

[DNA]

Well, I've seen three english subtitles so far, none was accurate, there are always some small mistakes on them. I've got an .srt file, but since I'm not fluent in Japanese, I can't correct it properly.

[sangofe]

Well, I've seen three english subtitles so far, none was accurate, there are always some small mistakes on them. I've got an .srt file, but since I'm not fluent in Japanese, I can't correct it properly.

There might be an accurate sub "out" in the coming days. (Yes, I'm working on it along with people I trust.)

[VEGETA_DTX]

Attitudefan, I am glad we agree.

I personally like the style of the entire DBZ series(just some slight problems with the ending of the DBZ, mainly because of bigger and flatter noses an bigger heads). Of course I'm not counting that bad art style that happens every 3rd or 4th episode(I've mentioned it already anyway).

As for these modern styles such as used in Budokai openings, and work by Mrs.Ooishi Naho, while I can't say I dislike them (because, lets imagine I never heard of DB before and suddenly I watch this new Episode Of Bardock, I would probably say - wow what an awesome cartoon and such a super original and awesome art style!), but I certainly dislike it when I compare it to the good old DBZ style.

There's just always been something so awesome and impressive about that spiky, anti-gravity, and as I like to call it "aerodynamic" DBZ hair style, having those unique "trianglish" eyes and being buff in such a stylized way with with such unique proportions
That masterpiece of my childhood has also defined my own art style which is extremely similar to it, and for that, once again, I thank mr.Akira Toriyama. Sometimes I honestly think that I have been born to be a fan of the Dragon Ball

And the bottom line of the art style story - It's all well as long as the franchise grows on the same root it sprout from...once it's been cut away from its roots, the whole fandom "dies" i.e. loses its point.
That is why I always figuratively say - create a "new folder" for the new stuff!

[AgitoZ]

That masterpiece of my childhood has also defined my own art style which is extremely similar to it, and for that, once again, I thank mr.Akira Toriyama. Sometimes I honestly think that I have been born to be a fan of the Dragon Ball

You thank Toriyama for the art in the TV series? That's...odd.

[Attitudefan]

There's just always been something so awesome and impressive about that spiky, anti-gravity, and as I like to call it "aerodynamic" DBZ hair style, having those unique "trianglish" eyes and being buff in such a stylized way with with such unique proportions
That masterpiece of my childhood has also defined my own art style which is extremely similar to it, and for that, once again, I thank mr.Akira Toriyama. Sometimes I honestly think that I have been born to be a fan of the Dragon Ball

I very much agree with you there! My art also resembles Dragonball and Mr Toriyama's style!

As for these modern styles such as used in Budokai openings, and work by Mrs.Ooishi Naho, while I can't say I dislike them (because, lets imagine I never heard of DB before and suddenly I watch this new Episode Of Bardock, I would probably say - wow what an awesome cartoon and such a super original and awesome art style!), but I certainly dislike it when I compare it to the good old DBZ style.

Funny you say that, as I believe why a lot of people dislike much of the earlier art in Dragonball Z when they are used to the new style such as the Budokai opening. I love that DB has a way different look than any other cartoon style, and that's amazing.

[MasterVampire]

So then SSJ Bardock....

Equal to 50% Freeza?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

So then SSJ Bardock....

Equal to 50% Freeza?

Um...no?

50% Freeza is about 60,000,000. Bardock was around 10,000 at the end of the original TV Special. If Bardock somehow got the maximum known near death boost, which I think is about x33 when Goku jumped from 90,000 to 3,000,000 on Namek, after Ipana heals him...that would put Bardock at 330,000 when he faced Chilled, and 16,500,000 after becoming a Super Saiyan. Not even at 25% of Freeza's power...

[DNA]

So then SSJ Bardock....

Equal to 50% Freeza?

Um...no?

50% Freeza is about 60,000,000. Bardock was around 10,000 at the end of the original TV Special. If Bardock somehow got the maximum known near death boost, which I think is about x33 when Goku jumped from 90,000 to 3,000,000 on Namek, after Ipana heals him...that would put Bardock at 330,000 when he faced Chilled, and 16,500,000 after becoming a Super Saiyan. Not even at 25% of Freeza's power...

In b4 powerlevels are bullshit.
Anyway, that would put Chilled at like 15,000,000 probably.

[RazorX]

When The Episode of Bardock Anime was announced, I hoped that Hiroshi Takaki would compose the music for it, and he did. The result is wonderful. His stylistic similarity to Kenji Yamamoto don't seem like a coincidence, that seems to be the direction Toei want to take with Dragon Ball's music and I'm happy about that.

Add that to good animation and good voice work, enjoyable special.

[kei17]

His stylistic similarity to Kenji Yamamoto don't seem like a coincidence

If you ask me, their styles clearly differ from each other. The only common point I hear is that they both used a large orchestra.

[Raykugen]

And yeah, Chilled was definitely pretty much Nakao's Freeza voice, but I'm never gonna complain about more Nakao heh.

That's just what Nakao sounds like. I wouldn't call the performance the same though, Chilled is definitely much more childish, the inflections are much more exaggerated, and Nakao definitely sounds like he's having fun in the role.

It's your opinion...

No kidding.

...the style of toriyama get better along the series, and using the most done style is the better they can do.

I don't know what you exactly mean by the last part, but honestly I gotta disagree with the first point, or at least somewhat.

I would say the art style for the 23rd Budokai-Saiyan arc is Toriyama at his best. Later on it doesn't get bad, but once we got to the Boo arc it definitely got lazy. As the story went on the art style definitely got much more stylized and by the Boo arc it got too stylized. The roundness and cleanliness of his earlier artwork was gone.

But on the other hand, I definitely like Toriyama's much more recent artwork. Even if the proportions having got a bit...odd. The characters are now more rounded and he definitely took a step back from the stylization. I'm sure being on a weekly schedule affected him and now he's getting back in form.

Oh sure, it's his best style, when he was drawing giant ears, when he was drawing 3 rows of abdominals when the human anatomy it's to way different... And the details, the style in the Cell saga it's the most detailed and care.

[JulieYBM]

I can't say I'm a big fan of Takaki's work for Dragon Ball. It largely lacks distinctiveness and character, much like a lot of Yamamoto's stuff for Dragon Ball Kai. Now, he's likely only written a few pieces in comparison, but from what I've heard it's really rather lifeless.

[Attitudefan]

Oh sure, it's his best style, when he was drawing giant ears, when he was drawing 3 rows of abdominals when the human anatomy it's to way different... And the details, the style in the Cell saga it's the most detailed and care.

Sure buddy. I made comparisons using the manga. Took me a good hour and a half to do these and I hope you appreciate it and have a new outlook on the artwork. The earlier art looks much better friend.




Piccolo changed for the worse and everybody else too for that matter!

[Perfect]

Ah! You've inspired me to make some art comparisons in a bit, I'll try and cover as many transitions with characters as I can.

[Attitudefan]

Ah! You've inspired me to make some art comparisons in a bit, I'll try and cover as many transitions with characters as I can.

Great! Awesome! I just dislike when people say the Buu arc had better drawings than earlier when that is not true at all!

[Saiga]

Ah! You've inspired me to make some art comparisons in a bit, I'll try and cover as many transitions with characters as I can.

Great! Awesome! I just dislike when people say the Buu arc had better drawings than earlier when that is not true at all!

Well... it's entirely subjective. Boo Arc Vegeta looked a lot better in the picture you linked than Cell Arc and Saiyan Arc Vegeta.

[Perfect]

The art chart I'll make won't be about what's better, just a showcase, I'll start a bit later, working on some other projects, I'll probably make a thread about it; so I'll shut up here. ^.-;;

Edit:

Gonna be a few days.

[Attitudefan]

Ah! You've inspired me to make some art comparisons in a bit, I'll try and cover as many transitions with characters as I can.

Great! Awesome! I just dislike when people say the Buu arc had better drawings than earlier when that is not true at all!

Well... it's entirely subjective. Boo Arc Vegeta looked a lot better in the picture you linked than Cell Arc and Saiyan Arc Vegeta.

I think, like perfect said, it's subjective.
I look at that picture of Buu arc Vegeta and I dislike it a lot. I think the Saiyan arc Vegeta has better face proportions over the other two pictures.

[Raykugen]

Oh sure, it's his best style, when he was drawing giant ears, when he was drawing 3 rows of abdominals when the human anatomy it's to way different... And the details, the style in the Cell saga it's the most detailed and care.

Sure buddy. I made comparisons using the manga. Took me a good hour and a half to do these and I hope you appreciate it and have a new outlook on the artwork. The earlier art looks much better friend.




Piccolo changed for the worse and everybody else too for that matter!

That's not fair and it's very subjective. The better refferences to do something like that are the illustrations, not the manga, where Toriyama hasn't time. The style of the Buu arc it's basically the same as the Cell arc but it looks done more fast and without care.