World's Strongest Review-Ocean Group Dub

[Ashura]

That's not how tv works even on non-subtitled stuff. Your eyes are always (supposed) to be focused on a specific area, usually (hopefully) where the director intended. It's (usually) repeat viewings where fun stuff in the background comes to light.

Very rarely do you see everything in one viewing. The point people are trying to make is that subtitles can be an even further distraction from that.

Please note that nowhere in any of these posts did anyone say subtitles are BAD, it's just that you can't realistically say they're a perfect solution or better than any other.

[VegettoEX]

Well, the perfect solution would be if you were a seven-year-old Japanese boy living in Japan in 1986.

But, ya' know, almost none of us were. So how far do you want to take that standpoint of "EXACTLY THE SAME VIEWING EXPERIENCE!" before it gets ridiculous?

Also, yeah. Movie 2's 1997 English dub. And stuff.

[Gaffer Tape]

Please note that nowhere in any of these posts did anyone say subtitles are BAD, it's just that you can't realistically say they're a perfect solution or better than any other.

Well, I dunno. I still say my last post...

Besides, if it's choosing between having a few words on the screen, and having every single vocal performance replaced, the former seems like a much less intrusive trade-off for a much more accurate viewing experience.

...gives a pretty good case for why it's better than any other (aside from just being able to natively speak Japanese).

As for the topic, I don't have much to say besides I agree that it's good. That particular dub holds a special place in my heart for being the first time I ever heard the Japanese score and wondered why the TV series didn't sound nearly as awesome as what I was hearing on this film. And thus, I became the Gaffer Tape I am today!

[Ashura]

Well, the perfect solution would be if you were a seven-year-old Japanese boy living in Japan in 1986.

I'm not sure who you were replying to exactly, but this ridiculous impossibility is exactly what I was eluding to in my post. And even then, what if you were a seven-year-old girl in Japan in 1986? Like I said, there's no 'perfect' way to watch something, especially something not in your native language. You're always going to be making a concession to not only the translation in the case of foreign material but also the perspective you're watching the subject from in general.

For instance, an environmentalist watching a lot of Studio Ghibli's films probably has a completely different perspective on the works than a normal layman or animation fan. Neither is an invalid viewpoint.

Which is why I'm trying to say, sub vs. dub is more viewpoint than some unequivocal notion that one's better than the other. Taste is always subjective. See; the debate about which version of Blade Runner is the best.

[My last post] gives a pretty good case for why it's better than any other (aside from just being able to natively speak Japanese).

That's your opinion, though, and not something that really 'makes a case.' You prefer the original voices with a bit of text on the screen vs. no text on screen and completely redone voices, which is completely a cool viewpoint to have. What's a plus there to you might not be a plus to others, though. People might not find subtitles as unobtrusive as you do, for instance. Mind you, I say this and Dragonball subtitled is my preferred method of watching unless it's Kai.

And even then, I don't hate the dub like some other people do, be it nostalgia or whatever... it's just that I think subtitles do the show and its story more justice than the dub. I don't feel this is unequivocally the case for every show in existence, though. (Cowboy Bebop is a big instance of this; I've watched it both ways and prefer the English version. Megumi seems miscast as Faye and I feel Spike and Jet sound far too similar. I say this even as a big fan of Koichi Yamadera. Yes, I know this is not a popular opinion to have specifically, but it's mine. )

It's also to the point that a lot of productions nowadays are going to be multilingual from the start, so 'the original vision' perspective is never more blurred.

For a lot of creators, it's interesting to note that their vision is often to have their work enjoyed by as many people as possible vs. which came first.

Interestingly, I have a friend who refuses to play MGS1 in English because the Japanese version came out first, but will then not play MGS2 in Japanese because the English version came out first. It doesn't matter that MGS2 was recorded simultaneously in Japanese and English, always intended to be released in both languages, etc. etc. Whichever came out first is the 'original intended version' to him, which is why I think 'original intended version' is a silly way to judge something anymore.

In the end it comes down to the pluses and minuses, and which of those pluses and minuses line up with your personal preference.

As for the dub of Movie 2... I always really liked every performance except for Goku and Roshi, and felt it outshines the Funimation version otherwise. I could just never get on board with Kelamis as Goku, though, even when I grew out of being a judgmental kid. It always sounded forced to me, and there's a reason why I did this edit of Dead Zone a while back.

[dario03]

Personally I don't believe in a perfect way to watch the show (or at least not a perfect for everybody). Everybody is different and has different taste, some might only like the original version, some might only like the dubs that are original to them, and some might like different parts in different versions. I think a lot has to do with how you started watching it and how much you have seen in one version before seeing a different version.

Myself I saw the first ~53 episodes of Z a million times and those were the Ocean dubs, but every english episode after that was Funimations and during that time I first saw movies 4-13, the db movies, the Trunks special, the Bardock special, Piccolo vs 17, Gohan vs Cell, Majin Vegeta vs Goku and Buu, the end of Z, and parts of GT and its special in Japanese. So I can watch Dragonball in English or Japanese and for the most part its all the same but some parts I like better in the different versions. Though I will say that the clips I've seen of Oceans later episodes have annoyed me a bit (mostly future Trunks and fat Buu).

However since I watched a ton of Naruto in Japanese in a very short amount of time the English version was quite annoying at first. I think one of the things about watching a show in a language you don't speak is that it lets you make your own interpretation of the characters voice more than a voice in a language you do speak. Its a lot easier for me to spot bad acting when I actually know what the person is saying and which words have more meaning and feel to them. Its also a lot easier to get annoyed by something that you understand. Naruto saying "Dattebayo" all the time never annoyed me, I didn't even notice it for a long time but when he says "believe it" it drives me insane. Its like when people say "you know what I'm saying" at the end of every sentence. Personally I think thats why some people always say that the Japanese voice acting is better, that and some people think that the dub voices should only sound like the originals.

Currently I do prefer to stick to one version of something but I do still end up watching some things in English and then later episodes in Japanese because I get tired of waiting for the dub. I would prefer if they didn't make a bunch of changes in a dub but if they do and they do a good job then good for them. I haven't watched Kai in japanese so I don't know if it was a Kai thing or a Dub thing but I like Frieza's character in Dub Kai more than any other version I've seen. However stupid little changes like "But he was a brilliant scientist!" are definitely annoying and unnecassary.

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

Please note that nowhere in any of these posts did anyone say subtitles are BAD, it's just that you can't realistically say they're a perfect solution or better than any other.

Well, I dunno. I still say my last post...

Besides, if it's choosing between having a few words on the screen, and having every single vocal performance replaced, the former seems like a much less intrusive trade-off for a much more accurate viewing experience.

...gives a pretty good case for why it's better than any other (aside from just being able to natively speak Japanese).

As for the topic, I don't have much to say besides I agree that it's good. That particular dub holds a special place in my heart for being the first time I ever heard the Japanese score and wondered why the TV series didn't sound nearly as awesome as what I was hearing on this film. And thus, I became the Gaffer Tape I am today!

I can answer that question if you like. Back in those days the kids in Canada and the States were used to anime being noticeably different then the original Japanese version. Whether it be music, script, character names or other things the point is anime will be changed if it touches those said countries. Kids also had a bizarre attention spam so the original music had to be replaced to get the message across. The 3 Pioneer versions you saw on TV back then were early examples of, if you leave the fuck out of an anime and do it right then it doesn't need editing or replacement music. Gundam Wing, Cowboy Beebop and Big-O(unedited) were also other examples of this. Does that answer your question?

[Pokewhiz7]

What was his question?

[Gaffer Tape]

I had a question...? Well, um, thank you for answering my... question... I guess.

EDIT: Ohhh, I see. I think he's referring to the question I asked myself about the music when I first saw that movie. Thank you, but I figured that out about twelve years ago.

[NeoKING]

So how about that World's Strongest Review (Ocean Group Dub)?

[Pokewhiz7]

So how about that World's Strongest Review (Ocean Group Dub)?

Oh, it's awesome! There's one scene where Kelamis sounds just like Nozawa. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... _To#t=109s

[NeoKING]

So how about that World's Strongest Review (Ocean Group Dub)?

Oh, it's awesome! There's one scene where Kelamis sounds just like Nozawa. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... _To#t=109s

I don't really care for the English voice actors sounding just like the Japanese ones. I care for the English voice actors to act the part they're acting properly.

[Gaffer Tape]

And are you saying he isn't right there? I don't think there was any conscious decision on Kelamis's part to match Nozawa. I think that's just how he did it, and we happen to think it's cool that he not only did a good job but happened to be a good equivalent to the original version.

[NeoKING]

And are you saying he isn't right there?

Not once did I even imply such a thing. All I essentially said was "Sounding like the original Japanese voice actors don't mean much to me because I don't put the Japanese voice-overs on a pedastool."

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, I'm sorry. It very heavily sounded like you were implying that, which is why I asked.

[Pokewhiz7]

I think they need to fit the character's personality to be a good voice. I was just saying that that was kind of cool that his screams sounded like that.

[AgitoZ]

I think they need to fit the character's personality to be a good voice.

Why?

[penguintruth]

So how about that World's Strongest Review (Ocean Group Dub)?

Oh, it's awesome! There's one scene where Kelamis sounds just like Nozawa. Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... _To#t=109s

I don't really care for the English voice actors sounding just like the Japanese ones. I care for the English voice actors to act the part they're acting properly.

I think Kelamis does both.

[Gaffer Tape]

I think they need to fit the character's personality to be a good voice.

Why?

I would assume so as to not run the risk of the character sounding and acting like a different person entirely, which tends to happen when you give them an entirely new personality.

[jjgp1112]

My problem with subtitles is that to me it's just reading text while a bunch of guys speaking jibberish. I watch a show to experience it, not read it. I'm not engaged in subtitled anime the way I am with English shows. If I want to read Dragon Ball, that's what I have my incomplete collection of Shonen Jump issues for.

[AgitoZ]

I would assume so as to not run the risk of the character sounding and acting like a different person entirely, which tends to happen when you give them an entirely new personality.

Okay, but what does that have to do with the voices? Giving them a new personality will change their personality because you're doing just that. A voice certainly has to work for the character but nothing says the big guy should always a have a deep voice, the angry guy should have an irritated voice, etc. I mean, voices don't work that way. Granted, nothing is wrong with that, but nothing is also wrong for not giving someone a cliched voice. I thought actions speak louder than words.