Power Level Multiplier Discussion

[daveslaine2770]

We all know essentially that SSJ is 50 times, SSJ2 is 100 times, and SSJ3 is 400 times. Depending on how you view the SEG, SSJ 3 might actually be 2000 times, but I dont think that is the case.

However, we will instead do some hardcore debating and logical reasoning in this thread to gain a true understanding of the multipliers, including what if SSJ4, 5, and 6 multipliers.

Obviously I accept completely the 50 times for SSJ, and as well as 2x SSJ for SSJ2, it just makes sense. However, SSJ3, I think it's 2 times as well or 3 times because 4 times would be far too overkill and the fights with Fat and Kid Buu just pointed out that SSJ3 was not that great.

SSJ4 I honestly from what I saw, was probably 5 times greater than SSJ3, and that was the minimum, and during the ending of the Omega Shenron saga with all the power ups, Goku's SSJ4 probably reached to times 10.

Which accounts to, 50x2x2x5 which equals to SSJ4 being a thousand times greater. Which, though it looks like its far too small, its still 20 times greater than SSJ, and if Goku magically could access it during the fight with Frieza, well, lets just say he would be on a different league, just for the sake of comparison(though this is not a power level thread), Gokus power level would be 3,000,000,000, versus the normal 150,000,000 he was at, so you could see he would be far stronger.

For SSJ5, having seen transformations and the power boosts, I think that if Goku could access it during the fight with Omega Shenron, he could fight with him evenly but have the slight advantage sort of. He would have greater power but marginally, 1.2 times. Seeing as how Omega Shenron was easily twice if not thrice as stronger, SSJ5 would be a 2000x-3000x multiplier in terms of power.

This means if Goku could access SSJ5 magically against Frieza, his power level would be 9,000,000,000

And SSJ6, if Goku could attain that state, he would no doubt pummel Omega Shenron so calmly and simply like Gogeta did, so I would say,10 times stronger, putting the multiplier at 20,0000-30,000 times. Essentially, if Goku could access this power against Frieza, his power level would be over 90,000,000,000. Over 9,000 times stronger than Frieza.

The thread is open to debate.

[Perfect]

2*4 = 8

50*2 = 100
100*4 = 400

400*8 = 3200

SSJ = 50

SSJ2 = 100

SSJ3 = 400

SSJ4 = 3200

SSJ5/6 = n/a they don't exist and never will.
That'd be my best guess, taking the mathematical pattern.

[Saiga]

What was that about SS3 might be x2000 depending on how you look at the SEG?

[daveslaine2770]

What was that about SS3 might be x2000 depending on how you look at the SEG?

Some view it as SSJ2 being twice as FPSSJ, which was 5x normal SSJ, and SSJ3 being 4 times 50x5x2 equals 2000.

Sounds absurd

[Perfect]

"FPSSJ" is merely a term used to coin the fact that Goku and Gohan treated their SSJ transformation as a base form to gain better control over it. It's not a separate form, therefore rendering that argument invalid.

[Saiga]

Where does FPSS being 5x SS come from than?

[Perfect]

Where does FPSS being 5x SS come from than?

Dunno, ain't never heard of it. I'm assuming it's about as much of a rumor as AF being official or SSJ6 being real. Even if some guidebook said that, it'd contradict a ton of textual evidence from the anime and manga, rendering it about as invalid as one of the Daizenshuu's saying Gohan was SSJ2 against Dabra, but taking it back later on.

Yeah so, FPSSJ /=/ transformation.

[Bussani]

It should be noted that the Super Exciting Guides say that Super Saiyan has 50x the battle power, while Super Saiyan 2 has 2x the strength. Are strength and battle power the same thing? And what is "strength" in this context? Could someone with twice the strength lift twice the amount of weight?

If we presume that to be the case, then battle power and "strength" likely don't increase at the same rate. At the start of the story Goku could lift a small car and a decently sized boulder, so we could guess that he'd be able to lift about 1 ton. We don't know how much his battle power increased by the end of the series, but if we just say, hypothetically, that he only became as powerful as Freeza by the end of the series (not counting Super Saiyan, of course), then his battle power would have increased 12,000,000-fold; thus, if his "strength" went up at the same rate, he'd be able to lift 12,000,000 tons. At that point in the story, however, the most we see Goku lift is 40 tons, and he can't even do that without becoming a Super Saiyan. Now, before anyone points out that he had 10 tons on each limb and was flying while doing it, which the guides themselves say made it harder, that's still an improbably large difference if you ask me. It would be like if I became unable to move simply because someone attached a 100 milligram weight to each of my limbs!

So what if every time battle power doubled, "strength" was multiplied by something like 1.14? That way base Goku would be able to lift 25 tons by the time he was at Freeza's level, and 55 tons after becoming a Super Saiyan. In other words, multiplying his battle power 50-fold would more than double his "strength". If that were the case, Super Saiyan 2 would have around 50 times the battle power of Super Saiyan as well, and Super Saiyan 3 would have a whopping 1,000+ times the battle power of Super Saiyan 2!

...I'm not saying that I believe any of the above, of course. I just found it fun to think about.

[Kaboom]

Where does FPSS being 5x SS come from than?

The only "FPSSj is 5x base" theory I've ever heard is within the context of the boost actually shrinking down from the standard 50x, with the power magically bleeding into the base form somehow as a result of mastering Super Saiyan. But that's not only a barely circumstantially-unsupported and unnecessary theory, but entails simply a reduced multiplier for regular Super Saiyan, not something that stacks on top of it. This "FPSSj is 5x regular SSj" thing isn't something I've ever heard before.

[Saiga]

Where does FPSS being 5x SS come from than?

The only "FPSSj is 5x base" theory I've ever heard is within the context of the boost actually shrinking down from the standard 50x, with the power magically bleeding into the base form somehow as a result of mastering Super Saiyan. But that's not only a barely circumstantially-unsupported and unnecessary theory, but entails simply a reduced multiplier for regular Super Saiyan, not something that stacks on top of it. This "FPSSj is 5x regular SSj" thing isn't something I've ever heard before.

Coincidentally, that was my personal theory.

[Pantalones]

I know I've seen the idea of "full power" Super Saiyan giving an extra boost ontop of the regular Super Saiyan boost somewhere before, though I can't remember if it was on here or somewhere else.

Pretty sure it doesn't amount to anything but a weird fan-theory, though... I think that calling it "Full Power" and treating it like a separate form rather than what it actually is (just regular Super Saiyan, but with extra training to get rid of the form's usual downsides of added stress, slightly altered mental state, and a little extra energy consumption) has kind of mislead some people into thinking that it inherently has a different level of power than "regular" Super Saiyan.

[Fox666]

Where does FPSS being 5x SS come from than?

It is based on Goku having 3,000 Kiri as a Super Saiyan while Yakon is 800. So if Goku could hold his own against Yakon before he transformed in Super Saiyan thus the multiplier should be around the result of the divison of the numbers (3.75).

Of course there is no official source for such claim. In fact, considering that the Super Exciting Guide even provided the multipliers for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 along the Super Saiyan, it's very unlikely the full-power Super Saiyan is any different than 50 times. The concept of full-power Super Saiyan is also only briefly mentioned in the guide and is skipped in Gohan or Vegeta evoltion of power story, so it shouldn't be taken very deeply.

SSJ4 = 3200

SSJ5/6 = n/a they don't exist and never will.
That'd be my best guess, taking the mathematical pattern.

According to the guidebooks, the name "Super Saiyan 4" is only for convenience but it is of a completely different species. Thus you should think of any pattern regarding the previous Super Saiyan forms.

Perhaps it would be better to think of the multiplication of the Oozaru and Super Saiyan multipliers, which is 500 times? Maybe not, considering Vegeta was not a yellow Oozaru before he transformed in Super Saiyan.

Where does FPSS being 5x SS come from than?

The only "FPSSj is 5x base" theory I've ever heard is within the context of the boost actually shrinking down from the standard 50x, with the power magically bleeding into the base form somehow as a result of mastering Super Saiyan. But that's not only a barely circumstantially-unsupported and unnecessary theory, but entails simply a reduced multiplier for regular Super Saiyan, not something that stacks on top of it. This "FPSSj is 5x regular SSj" thing isn't something I've ever heard before.

I think a better theory is that everybody incorporated the concept of the Kaio-ken to their own regular Ki at this point. Of course it is just that, a theory.

It should be noted that the Super Exciting Guides say that Super Saiyan has 50x the battle power, while Super Saiyan 2 has 2x the strength. Are strength and battle power the same thing? And what is "strength" in this context? Could someone with twice the strength lift twice the amount of weight?

If we presume that to be the case, then battle power and "strength" likely don't increase at the same rate. At the start of the story Goku could lift a small car and a decently sized boulder, so we could guess that he'd be able to lift about 1 ton. We don't know how much his battle power increased by the end of the series, but if we just say, hypothetically, that he only became as powerful as Freeza by the end of the series (not counting Super Saiyan, of course), then his battle power would have increased 12,000,000-fold; thus, if his "strength" went up at the same rate, he'd be able to lift 12,000,000 tons. At that point in the story, however, the most we see Goku lift is 40 tons, and he can't even do that without becoming a Super Saiyan. Now, before anyone points out that he had 10 tons on each limb and was flying while doing it, which the guides themselves say made it harder, that's still an improbably large difference if you ask me. It would be like if I became unable to move simply because someone attached a 100 milligram weight to each of my limbs!

So what if every time battle power doubled, "strength" was multiplied by something like 1.14? That way base Goku would be able to lift 25 tons by the time he was at Freeza's level, and 55 tons after becoming a Super Saiyan. In other words, multiplying his battle power 50-fold would more than double his "strength". If that were the case, Super Saiyan 2 would have around 50 times the battle power of Super Saiyan as well, and Super Saiyan 3 would have a whopping 1,000+ times the battle power of Super Saiyan 2!

...I'm not saying that I believe any of the above, of course. I just found it fun to think about.

"Battle power" and "strength" have always been synonymous, so if they meant something special for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 I would expect them to specify it, especially if they list it among with the Super Saiyan multiplier.

Perhaps it is just for aesthetic purpose. It wouldn't sound good to say "battle power" too many times, even the manga use a few variants.

Either way, if the lifting strength is not exactly proportional to the battle power I think is mostly because of Toriyama forgetfulness than anything else. The same goes for speed, otherwise Freeza should already have far surpassed the speed of light.

[Bussani]

"Battle power" and "strength" have always been synonymous, so if they meant something special for Super Saiyan 2 and 3 I would expect them to specify it, especially if they list it among with the Super Saiyan multiplier.

Perhaps it is just for aesthetic purpose. It wouldn't sound good to say "battle power" too many times, even the manga use a few variants.

Like I said, I don't even believe any of what I wrote myself. I just wanted to look at it from that point of view out of curiosity's sake.

Either way, if the lifting strength is not exactly proportional to the battle power I think is mostly because of Toriyama forgetfulness than anything else.

That's almost certainly the reason for it, but it's still the same result in the end: over the course of the story, the weights that are supposed to be impressive don't seem to go up as linearly as the battle powers do. But hey, lifting strength and striking strength aren't exactly the same thing to begin with, and I can't even guess at how strong their punches are meant to be at any point in the story.

[Fox666]

It could be that weights or gravity directly affects your body regardless of the size of your Ki, so they really are not meant to be proportional.

[dario03]

Where does FPSS being 5x SS come from than?

The only "FPSSj is 5x base" theory I've ever heard is within the context of the boost actually shrinking down from the standard 50x, with the power magically bleeding into the base form somehow as a result of mastering Super Saiyan. But that's not only a barely circumstantially-unsupported and unnecessary theory, but entails simply a reduced multiplier for regular Super Saiyan, not something that stacks on top of it. This "FPSSj is 5x regular SSj" thing isn't something I've ever heard before.

Coincidentally, that was my personal theory.

I've always thought it made more sense that the first time they became SS1 they got the 50 times boost but after that their base level would be much higher and SS1 wouldn't actually make them that much stronger. I don't usually bring it up though because all the official statements just say the multiplier is 50 times.

[Perfect]

I don't see how that makes any sense.

Goku on Namek - 150,000,000 with x50

Hypothetical Goku, walking on the Sun while he fights Broly and Cell at the same time:

Base - 15,000,000
SSJ - 200,000,000 with x13.33

Why would the multiplier be set from the time they transform and slowly ticking down as they get stronger, evidently becoming useless upon reaching a certain level of strength? I don't see any evidence at all towards this.

[Saiga]

I just like to think MSS is 5x base to fit the kiri implications and make the Base Saiyans > Piccolo, Androids, Kaioshin make more sense.

[Bussani]

It could be that weights or gravity directly affects your body regardless of the size of your Ki, so they really are not meant to be proportional.

Yeah, it could work something like that. I don't think anything ever tells us that they're supposed to be proportional--just that everything should increase some sort of amount every time your battle power goes up. But of course, I'm sure Toriyama never thought too deeply about it.

[Perfect]

I just like to think MSS is 5x base to fit the kiri implications and make the Base Saiyans > Piccolo, Androids, Kaioshin make more sense.

MSS?

[Saiga]

I just like to think MSS is 5x base to fit the kiri implications and make the Base Saiyans > Piccolo, Androids, Kaioshin make more sense.

MSS?

Mastered Super Saiyan/Super Saiyan Full Power or whatever you want to call it. Sorry I'm really inconsistent with what I call it.