Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:07 am

Eh, I've never been a fan of the idea of changing the theme as often as people change underwear. It's overkill and, for me at least, strips away something of the identity of the show. Would CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA be such a DB signature if it had just been opening 7 out of 19?
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by sanorin » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:40 am

I think the amount of opening and ending songs was fine as it was, but they should have changed more often the animation according to what it was happening in the story. This is what we have:

-"Makafushigi Adventure!" version 1: Search for the Dragon Balls
-"Makafushigi Adventure!" version 2: Piccolo Daimao
-"CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA" version 1: pre-Vegeta and Nappa
-"CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA" version 2: pre-Vegeta and Nappa with Goku, Vegeta and Trunks Super Saiyan
-"We Gotta Power": pre-Tenkaichi Budokai

I would have added some 21st Tenkaichi Budokai and Red Ribbon animation to the DB one, dropped little Gohan from CHA-LA and added some Freeza and Androids, added some fusion or Boo to We Gotta... I'm talking about changing only the animation, not the songs, kind of like the 2008 Goku is Back Special.

And about the endings, I like how "Romantic ageru yo" changed the animation so much. I like "Bokutachi wa tenshi datta" for the whole Boo saga. But "(...) Zenkai Power" looked to me really outdated by the Cell saga. So I would have added another ending theme song for the Android and Cell saga (this time not only the animation, but the song as well).

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by PiccoloFan7289 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:16 am

There also would have been some great Dragon Ball Insert songs that could have been used as opening themes. Aim to be the greatest on Earth could have been used for all the Tenkaichi Tournament Arcs.

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by MCDaveG » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:13 am

SHINOBI-03 wrote:Dragon Ball was made in the time when anime had their own special themes that had something to relate to and not random j-pop songs that changes every year to sell CDs and music collections like what we get nowadays.
Yeah, those old good days! When for example Gundam series had two openings each and of one of them was J-Rock upbeat song iconical for the series like Z wo Koete or Anime Janai with somewhat ''mysterious'' scenes that were not directly from the show with villian or rival sometimes tossed in and that was for most the anime. That changed in 90's and 00's in anime series, where there is random J-pop or homo ballad that aren't even matching the series with OMG awesome footage of clashes and all goes against everyone, flashy, coool. Looks really weird and sillly and as SHINOBI-03 noted, it's almost in every case an actual advertisement for some idol and his shitty single hyped up by the show, as most studios are getting money from merchandising more than ever before. One exception from my roster of series is Saint Seiya Lost Canvas where the opening is written and performed for the series by Eurox, who did opening for Panzer World Galient in 80's or Isao Sasaki reprising his iconic song for new Yamato remake series. I like even the heroic song from 70's a hell more than what we got nowadays!
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Damn, I miss those old trends. And I'll always be fond of my memories when the Chala Head Chala started with the red ball and the arpeggio played in on the TV screen after advertisements.
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by PiccoloFan7289 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:58 pm

Here are some more suggestions for openings based on the insert songs. I also think With a Burning Heart Defeat the Red Ribbon Army would have been perfect for Dragon Ball episodes 29-78. Battle Colored Warriors would work with Dragon Ball Z Episodes 1-35. Dragon Ball Legend could work for Dragon Ball Episodes 1-13.

This is what I have for Dragon Ball so far

Opening 1: Episodes (1-13) Theme: Dragon Ball Legend
Opening 2: Episodes (14-28) Theme: Aim to Be the Greatest on Earth
Opening 3: Episodes (29-78) Theme: Burning Heart Defeat the Red Ribbon Army
Opening 4: Episodes (79-101) Theme: Aim to Be the Greatest on Earth
Opening 5: Episodes (102-126) Theme: It's hard to pick one for the Piccolo Daimao Arc.
Opening 6: Episodes (127-153) Theme: Aim to Be the Greatest on Earth

Dragon Ball would have worked great with 4 themes. For example if you heard Aim to Be the Greatest on Earth you know Goku is fighting in a Tenkaichi Tournament, or if you hear Burning Heart Defeat the Red Ribbon Army you instantly know Goku is gonna be fighting the Red Ribbon Army. Dragon Ball Legend also works really well for the first arc of the series because that arc is all about gathering the Dragon Balls and summoning Shenron.

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by DarkGokuZ » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:21 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:Eh, I've never been a fan of the idea of changing the theme as often as people change underwear. It's overkill and, for me at least, strips away something of the identity of the show. Would CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA be such a DB signature if it had just been opening 7 out of 19?
One Piece has 15 openings, and the first opening, We Are, are a really popular song in the series. :)
I am a big fan of openings, so I would've loved if we had got more. But I like the openings that were made for the show, also the Kai ones. :D
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:34 am

sanorin wrote:I think the amount of opening and ending songs was fine as it was, but they should have changed more often the animation according to what it was happening in the story. This is what we have:

-"Makafushigi Adventure!" version 1: Search for the Dragon Balls
-"Makafushigi Adventure!" version 2: Piccolo Daimao
-"CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA" version 1: pre-Vegeta and Nappa
-"CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA" version 2: pre-Vegeta and Nappa with Goku, Vegeta and Trunks Super Saiyan
-"We Gotta Power": pre-Tenkaichi Budokai
"CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA" has 3 versions. We also have 2 versions of the GT opening, and 4 versions of Kai.
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by ThunderPX » Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:56 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
sanorin wrote:I think the amount of opening and ending songs was fine as it was, but they should have changed more often the animation according to what it was happening in the story. This is what we have:

-"Makafushigi Adventure!" version 1: Search for the Dragon Balls
-"Makafushigi Adventure!" version 2: Piccolo Daimao
-"CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA" version 1: pre-Vegeta and Nappa
-"CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA" version 2: pre-Vegeta and Nappa with Goku, Vegeta and Trunks Super Saiyan
-"We Gotta Power": pre-Tenkaichi Budokai
"CHA-LA-HEAD-CHA-LA" has 3 versions. We also have 2 versions of the GT opening, and 4 versions of Kai.
Also, the last version of CHA-LA does have a couple shots hinting at the Androids (that closeup of Dr. Gero's face in red, and the shot of the cybernetic hand... thing)
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Samwize78 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:23 am

Toei did change the animation where appropriate. Though I did like how Kai changed again for the Cell arc, instead of just an Artificial Humans/Cell arc opening I thought they were going for. Though the problem with that was the Cell arc greatly outweighed the Artificial Humans arc, plus with the filler cut out, gave it less airtime.

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by sanorin » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:34 am

ThunderPX wrote:Also, the last version of CHA-LA does have a couple shots hinting at the Androids (that closeup of Dr. Gero's face in red, and the shot of the cybernetic hand... thing)
Well, that's true, but it would have been better if they changed a couple of things like this to update it more:
Image

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Godo » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:56 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:Eh, I've never been a fan of the idea of changing the theme as often as people change underwear.
I for one don't change my underwear only once each season, but I wholly agree with your point. :wink:
But I still hold on to that if one theme is good enough, such as Cha-la, there is no need to change it. It pretty much contained all there is about Dragonball: Power, adventures, fights and friendships.

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Dr. Casey » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:05 pm

Eire wrote:Back then one opening and ending per series was a custom.
Was it? I can certainly think of a few older series that regularly changed their opening and ending themes; Urusei Yatsura started in 1981 and had six openings plus about a dozen different endings.

And yeah, I don't really agree with the general sentiment in this thread at all, personally I enjoy changing things up once per season (Or every 30-50 episodes in the case of long-running shounen like One Piece) and don't really have any desire of reverting to the 'good old days' where openings remain uniform throughout the show. It's nice to have a variety of good songs, and the updated openings and endings can reflect the changing state of the characters and storyline throughout.
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Eire » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:31 pm

In shorter animes (up to 52 episodes), yes. Longer series had up to 2-3 openings, unless they were a big hit. Nothing to compare with nowadays changing after a few episodes.

The problem with new openings is that songs don't reflect characters and storyline changes- they often seem to be picked up randomly, having lyrics that with all good will are hard to be connected with series events or mood, singing with one-season pop idols that could be replaced with no harm. That was born as a business opportunity to sell more OSTs and make ads for new bands, nothing more.
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Dr. Casey » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:46 pm

The problem with new openings is that songs don't reflect characters and storyline changes
Not lyrically, though they do represent the changing nature of their respective series in the animation itself far as tone, setting, and character design go (Not to mention I tend to enjoy the songs themselves and often enjoy the animations and artwork as well, which is the main reason I prefer the modern style to the comparatively dry 'Never change things around' method of old). I actually haven't ever noticed the lyrical relevancy of older anime compared to newer because I rarely read the lyrics when listening to openings or endings, since much of the time they're either completely incoherent (Like Cha La Head Cha La) or just empty and uninteresting.
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Eire » Sat Feb 25, 2012 12:58 pm

I'm not against changing openings at all, but about doing it poorly as it's done nowadays. Look at first FMA or Naruto- all openings could be mixed or changed with no harm to anything (maybe in exception of "Fighting dreamers"). The older series songs often had odd lyrics (even co-productions that in French had nice ear-worm themes) but at least didn't make me feel that they want to insert as many things as they can sell.
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Strongbad456 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:01 pm

IMO Head Cha-la should've been changed around episode 150 or so. I never really could get into Head Cha-la but I love We Gotta Power with a passion.

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Piccolo Daimao » Sat Feb 25, 2012 2:42 pm

Dr. Casey wrote:And yeah, I don't really agree with the general sentiment in this thread at all, personally I enjoy changing things up once per season (Or every 30-50 episodes in the case of long-running shounen like One Piece) and don't really have any desire of reverting to the 'good old days' where openings remain uniform throughout the show. It's nice to have a variety of good songs, and the updated openings and endings can reflect the changing state of the characters and storyline throughout.
The thing is, even if the multiple openings are all good, it sacrifices individuality for variety. Cha-La Head-Cha-La is instantly recognizable as DB's signature theme and the lyrics remain relevant throughout the series. Basically, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Three or even four openings is enough for a series like DB.
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Samwize78 » Sat Feb 25, 2012 3:54 pm

Strongbad456 wrote:IMO Head Cha-la should've been changed around episode 150 or so. I never really could get into Head Cha-la but I love We Gotta Power with a passion.
Honestly if Z where to change openings it would have been after the Namek/Freeza episodes. Undoubtedly it would have been another Kageyama Hironobu song, but what they did with changing the animation to Super Saiyan's and adding Trunks and Doctor Gero in were good enough for everybody else.

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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:51 pm

To clarify, I certainly have no problem with the openings updating ANIMATION. It's just changing the theme songs all the time that I have a problem with. When done right, they can become signatures for the show. If I mentioned "Happy Days," for example, if you know even the slightest bit about it, the theme song will immediately jump into your head. That show lasted for ten years and used that song for eight of them. They changed the visuals all the damn time, but the song helped define the show and set the tone for it. It's brand recognition, and it's the same reason why commercials have jingles.

If you change the song all the time, there's almost no chance for any kind of attachment to form. It's just one song out of a dozen. If you're lucky, like with One Piece, the first song will be remembered, but that's only because it's a first impression.
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Re: Why did Dragon Ball have so few openings?

Post by Dr. Casey » Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:12 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:If you change the song all the time, there's almost no chance for any kind of attachment to form.
Well, I'd have to disagree there; the song might not become a signature amongst the general populace, but each theme song will still be strongly associated with the series it belongs to those who follow the series. Even if theme songs are cycled through every 30 episodes (Which is a pretty average number), that's still eight months where the opening song is heard per every episode. The association won't be as strong as a series that keeps the same song for a much longer period of time, of course, but the attachment's pretty strong just the same. I think it's kind of nice, actually, the way that opening songs can serve as a tiny time capsule in a way, like how I can listen to a One Piece opening theme from 2009 and be brought back to that time period, an aspect that would be lost were there just one opening song. Using a single (Or very few) theme songs throughout a series does indeed attach it more strongly to the heart of the show, and that is nice, though honestly the absence of a signature song isn't something that bothers me, and personally the usage of a single opening just means I'll start skipping it past the first 20-30 episodes (Wheras with a revolving door of opening themes, there's always new songs to take the place of old ones once I start to tire of them). And on that note, I didn't mean to start a debate or make it sound as though I thought anyone here was objectively wrong; this is probably pretty close to purely subjective territory here, since which style you prefer depends on what things you care about.
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