"Power-up" theory.

[James R. Cadwell]

I've always assumed that each person in the Dragon Ball universe had a certain amount of energy they could access and utilize, and then a larger reservoir of untapped potential energy. The amount of latent energy would differ from person to person and would be influenced by species, age and other factors.

I believe that techniques like "Kaioken" briefly allow an individual to draw forth some of their hidden potential energy. Performing the "Kaioken" is therefore physiologically strenuous and dangerous to the user because his body hasn't been trained to sustain a level of power greater than usual. This strain would be compounded by using greater levels of "Kaioken" for obvious reasons.

The Super Saiya-jin transformation may function in almost precisely the same manner -- it would release latent energy and allow the Super Saiya-jin to exceed the power of his normal form, similarly to "Kaioken" -- just on a more impressive scale. However; it doesn't appear that becoming a Super Saiya-jin for the first time causes the same level of physical trauma as using high levels of "Kaioken" without intensive training, so there must be an additional component to the Super Saiya-jin transformation -- it seems logical that some of the physical changes associated with becoming a Super Saiya-jin also strengthen the body and allow it to withstand a sudden increase in power.

Gohan's mystical power increase on Kaioshin's planet, "Majin", etc would all be variants on the same basic principle.

This theory has already been outlined in essentially the same form on dozens of DBZ message boards, newsgroups, etc -- I was just wondering if anyone can perceive any major flaws in the basic idea.

[Zackarotto]

That sounds good. Something like Mystic would bring out all of the potential, if that's possible. Although, I just feel that SSJ would add to both sources of power, and not just borrow from the potential part.

A character like Gohan would have little power and lots of potential then, right?

[TripleRach]

I agree with most of that, although the first two Super Saiya-jin don't seem to strain the body much. I've always perceived SSJ as more of a becoming an entirely different person sort of matter; they do change physically, and even personality can change. But I suppose the effects of the transformation are similar. The Old Kaioushin even comments not to become SSJ before using the Potara earrings, because then they'd be permanently SSJ and that would strain the body and shorten the lifespan. Gohan and Gokuu also stay SSJ until the Cell Game so that they don't have to waste their energy transforming later, nor endure the stress of said transformation.

Regarding potential powers, I've always had a theory that a person has a certain amount of untapped power at a certain point in time. For example, Gokuu in the Piccolo saga. He drank the Choushinsui and unlocked all of his hidden power, which at the time was all of the power he gained from the Oozaru transformation. But obviously, this was not the maximum amount of power he attained in his life. I believe that through further training, he opened up new possibilites. This could also explain why Gohan was able to receive two of these "hidden potential" power ups in his lifetime. But, like most people, I think the "mystic" power up was the ultimate one, that truly did unlock all of Gohan's latent power, so that Gohan could never get stronger, and he no longer needed SSJ.

Actually, if we discredit DBGT... What if SSJ3 was the highest level a Saiya-jin could reach, and the mystic power up unleashed the power that Gohan would have if he had attained SSJ3? He doesn't seem to be significantly greater than SSJ3 Gokuu. There is no stress on his body (or if there is, it seems to be negligible), and he also doesn't have to deal with the energy problems. If this were the case, it would be like SSJ3, without any of the side effects. Just another theory...

[James R. Cadwell]

Regarding potential powers, I've always had a theory that a person has a certain amount of untapped power at a certain point in time. For example, Gokuu in the Piccolo saga. He drank the Choushinsui and unlocked all of his hidden power, which at the time was all of the power he gained from the Oozaru transformation. But obviously, this was not the maximum amount of power he attained in his life. I believe that through further training, he opened up new possibilites.

Agreed. My assumption would be that the amount of latent energy each character possesses is proportionate to their usable "ki". For example:

Freeza Saga Gohan might have had 100 "usable ki points" and 1000 "latent ki points". After years of intensive training, Cell Saga Gohan might have had 1000 "usable ki points" and 10,000 "latent ki points".

This could also explain why Gohan was able to receive two of these "hidden potential" power ups in his lifetime. But, like most people, I think the "mystic" power up was the ultimate one, that truly did unlock all of Gohan's latent power, so that Gohan could never get stronger, and he no longer needed SSJ.

I agree that all of the latent power Gohan possessed at that moment was released by the Old Kaioshin, but I don't think that it was impossible for Gohan to become any stronger. I hypothesize that training increases energy independently of any hidden power. After all -- there must be at least one method of externally acquiring additional "ki". Otherwise how could characters recover their "ki" after expending it?

Actually, if we discredit DBGT... What if SSJ3 was the highest level a Saiya-jin could reach, and the mystic power up unleashed the power that Gohan would have if he had attained SSJ3? He doesn't seem to be significantly greater than SSJ3 Gokuu.

I'd say that the "mystic" power-up unlocked more energy than Gohan would have had as a Super Saiya-jin 3. My guess would be that Gohan has greater potential energy than pretty much everyone. (that's actually a plot point a few times, too, isn't it?)

Super Saiya-jin 3 might not have used up most of Gohan's latent "ki" reservoir (so there would be a substantial amount left over to be released if he were turned "mystic"), whereas Goku was essentially tapped out since he barely had enough energy to sustain the form for a even a short time.

There is no stress on his body (or if there is, it seems to be negligible), and he also doesn't have to deal with the energy problems. If this were the case, it would be like SSJ3, without any of the side effects. Just another theory...

Makes sense to me. "Mystic" Gohan probably didn't experience any strain because of the magical element of Old Kaioshin's power-up technique.

[TripleRach]

I agree that all of the latent power Gohan possessed at that moment was released by the Old Kaioshin, but I don't think that it was impossible for Gohan to become any stronger. I hypothesize that training increases energy independently of any hidden power. After all -- there must be at least one method of externally acquiring additional "ki". Otherwise how could characters recover their "ki" after expending it?

Hmm, you're right. People recover their ki through healing and resting and eating. Humans seem to be restored to their maximum level before damage, but in the case of Saiya-jin, they end up with more than they started with. With that in mind, Gohan (and the other Saiya-jin, for that matter) should actually be limitless.

[Neon Z]

Has any half saiyan been stated to get a power up from near death?

[SaiyaJedi]

Has any half saiyan been stated to get a power up from near death?

Well, let's see... Gohan's neck was broken when Goku arrived on Namek and gave him a Senzu bean. I'd say that right there counts as being "near death."

Although... I can't think of any others right now. Anybody else wanna help me, here?

[Deus ex Machina]

I believe that techniques like "Kaioken" briefly allow an individual to draw forth some of their hidden potential energy. Performing the "Kaioken" is therefore physiologically strenuous and dangerous to the user because his body hasn't been trained to sustain a level of power greater than usual. This strain would be compounded by using greater levels of "Kaioken" for obvious reasons.

The Super Saiya-jin transformation may function in almost precisely the same manner -- it would release latent energy and allow the Super Saiya-jin to exceed the power of his normal form, similarly to "Kaioken" -- just on a more impressive scale.

Very interesting, however their's atleast 1 (minor) flaw I can see with this theory. If the Kaio-ken technique unleashes a persons potential all at once to some numerical degree (Kaioken X2,X4,X10 etc.) then that would mean that the Super Saiyan transformation would unlock all of a Saiyan's latent power, making the Kaio Ken technique useless. By itself, this theory is sound.

However, as you may recall during the Great Saiyaman Saga, Goku fights in the afterlife tournament. During his fight with Paikhaun he transforms into a Super Saiyan about mid way through, AND he uses his "Super Kaio-Ken attack". This seems to suggest that the Kaio-Ken technique infact raises the fighters power beyond that of his untapped potential.

[Deus ex Machina]

Has any half saiyan been stated to get a power up from near death?

Well, let's see... Gohan's neck was broken when Goku arrived on Namek and gave him a Senzu bean. I'd say that right there counts as being "near death."

Although... I can't think of any others right now. Anybody else wanna help me, here?

When Gohan was fighting Freeza in his second form, he breaks his neck by stepping on his head. After Dende heals him, Gohan creates a Masanko that was almost powerful enough to kill Freeza in his third form.

[PsyLiam]

Vegeta also comments that "like the Saiyan he is, he (Gohan's) power went up after he went through all that (almost died and had Dende heal him)."

There is an odd comment by Vegeta around that time though. Something like "no-one seems to be noticing that these humans powers keep getting stronger". Now, he is talking about Gohan there, which makes sense, but also Kuririn. Granted, Kuririn did have his "potential unleashed", but Vegeta seems to be talking about continual strength improvements. Therefore it is possible that humans get stronger by fighting, getting injured, and so forth, and not just training. Which would make sense, since training pretty much just seems to be fighting (and standing around straining). I would just say that humans don't receive quite as big a strength increase as Saiyans.

[Zackarotto]

However, as you may recall during the Great Saiyaman Saga, Goku fights in the afterlife tournament. During his fight with Paikhaun he transforms into a Super Saiyan about mid way through, AND he uses his "Super Kaio-Ken attack". This seems to suggest that the Kaio-Ken technique infact raises the fighters power beyond that of his untapped potential.

Yeah... but you don't have to consider that if you don't want to, because it's filler... I say keep it simpler.

[Jerseymilk]

Don't forget there was also the point in the Buu saga where Fat Buu nearly killed Gohan, but Kaioshin saved him and later transported him to the Kaioshin realm, before reviving him. I'd say he was pretty close to death at that point and even though he didn't do some miraculously powerful attack immediately after, he did pull out the Z Sword.

[Neon Z]

People recover their ki through healing and resting and eating. Humans seem to be restored to their maximum level before damage, but in the case of Saiya-jin, they end up with more than they started with. With that in mind, Gohan (and the other Saiya-jin, for that matter) should actually be limitless.

If all power ups are just methods of unlocking your potential, then the near death power ups that the sayans( and half sayans) have is just another method of unlocking your potential. It would also explain why those power ups dissapear after Freeza's Saga(Gohan, Vegeta and Goku had already gotten too much power from them, and the potential which could have gotten through near death had already been all unlocked).

AT hadn't forgotten about those power ups(he gave one of them to Cell), but the sayans stopped getting them.

[Dayspring]

Too lazy to quote:

1) "Mystic" releases a level ABOVE your FULL potential. That's what makes it so special. As a result, Gohan can't go SSJ3 (or at least he can't get any strength from it) since he doesn't gain any strength from SSJ.

You could therefore argue that SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Mystic Gohan, but note that he couldn't achieve his full strength. I believe this happened because of the explanation given earlier in the thread that you have an actual power level seperate from your potential strength. Since Goku was dead for so long, I think most of his training went to his spiritual body, or towards extending his potential strength instead of building on his real strength.

2) The Saiyans don't lose their ability to gain strength from near-death experiences, it's just not mentioned as much. Either that or Freeza's cells boosted the saiyan cells in Cell. Was it ever mentioned ANYWHERE how Freeza's cells contributed to making the perfect fighter?

[PsyLiam]

It gave him the ability to transform dramatically over a large number of episodes, thereby extending the excitement derived from watching it. Possibly.

[Zackarotto]

They allowed him survive in space. That's about it...

[PsyLiam]

It also possibly boosted his overall power/potential/fighting skill/etc.

[Dayspring]

Zack: ah yes. Forgot that.

Psy: Doubt it. Saiyans have infinite potential, but you made me consider how Imperfect Cell would start out so strong instead of being, say, an above average elite Saiyan's strength.

[Gohan-kun]

Too lazy to quote:

1) "Mystic" releases a level ABOVE your FULL potential. That's what makes it so special. As a result, Gohan can't go SSJ3 (or at least he can't get any strength from it) since he doesn't gain any strength from SSJ.

You could therefore argue that SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Mystic Gohan, but note that he couldn't achieve his full strength. I believe this happened because of the explanation given earlier in the thread that you have an actual power level seperate from your potential strength. Since Goku was dead for so long, I think most of his training went to his spiritual body, or towards extending his potential strength instead of building on his real strength.

2) The Saiyans don't lose their ability to gain strength from near-death experiences, it's just not mentioned as much. Either that or Freeza's cells boosted the saiyan cells in Cell. Was it ever mentioned ANYWHERE how Freeza's cells contributed to making the perfect fighter?

I'm not sure if the chou powerup gives you above your potential. Oldman Kaioshin throughout the whole ceremony is saying its taking too long because Gohan has incredible dormant capacities. Goku asks Kaioshin if dormant capacities is one's hidden abilities locked away, and Kaioshin answers yes. Goku says "Oh man! Just how much hidden power does Gohan have locked a way! Gohan is one awesome guy!" It seems he's implying that all the power is derived from Gohan's dormant capacities. But then again, Old Kaioshin did say that he can bring it out above his limits. But Babidi said the same thing about Vegeta. "Now lets bring out his hidden power, far above his limits." The "far above your limits" line I think is just to reinforce the idea that its power you will most likely have a difficult time attaining in your lifetime. Bleh I dunno...

Freeza and his father's cells contributed to Cell being able to breath in space, and something else too, but I can't remember. I just remember a scene where Cell says something like "This must be a trait because of Freeza and his father's cells."

[Deus ex Machina]

2) The Saiyans don't lose their ability to gain strength from near-death experiences, it's just not mentioned as much. Either that or Freeza's cells boosted the saiyan cells in Cell. Was it ever mentioned ANYWHERE how Freeza's cells contributed to making the perfect fighter?

Yeah, The Cells from Freeza and King Cold gave Cell the ability to live in any enviroment (in space, underwater, etc). But also Cell takes a lot of his physical traits from them as well. Without the Cells of Freeza and King Cold he would probably look human.