Non saiyan fighters should not have gotten the shaft

[Toonami97]

I still think the non saiyan fighters got a bum rap after Frieza saga. There have been plenty of anime/manga with second tier characters that stayed strong all the way to the end. Examples: Kinnikuman Naruto One piece etc

[Attitudefan]

Tenshinhan should have not been thrown to the side so quickly. I like how he was in the Cell arc but he was just too weak to really do anything. He never had a good 1 v 1 fight in him ever again...

[Toonami97]

I mean Yamcha was a real downward spiral but that could have been avoided

[Saiga]

I still think the non saiyan fighters got a bum rap after Freeza saga. There have been plenty of anime/manga with second tier characters that stayed strong all the way to the end. Examples: Kinnikuman Naruto One piece etc

Naruto has been shafting a lot of second tier and below characters though, ever since it entered Part II/Shippuden. Sakura was shafted right from the start!

Anyway, the non Saiyan fighters had problems long before the end of the Freeza saga. Goku overshadowed damn near everyone from the beginning of Dragon Ball and it's something that only became exacerbated as the series went on.

[Kaboom]

The Freeza arc? It started a lot earlier than that. Yamcha's been Mr. "Beaten in the First Round" at tournaments since the very start, Kuririn was always second fiddle to Goku all the way back since they met, and Tenshinhan hadn't been significant since he tried to fight Drum. At least Ten and Kuririn managed to stay halfway relevant in supporting roles, like Kuririn being the brains of his group on Namek and Tenshinhan "helping" against Cell. But when it comes to "who's strong enough to take on the bad guys," they and almost everyone else have always been secondary to Goku.

[Akumaito Beam]

Yeah, Yamucha was able to retain his role as the carnival strength tester all the way up to the Android arc.

I'm kind of one of the few that think the humans had a fair shake, they were relevant up until the Freeza arc (excluding Kuririn) and by that point the show felt like such a different beast to me I didn't mind severing ties and making room for plot relevant new blood.

[Hades]

Given that Yamcha was basically the Aquaman of Dragonball, it was inevitable that he'd get shafted. As for the rest of the non-saiyans, it was an inevitable rule of thumb that anyone weaker than the protagonist would be left to the wayside of the story.

[Super Vegetto]

Yamcha in my opinion should continue the training,,in saiyan saga it lookd like he is realy into fighthing but dying so easly yust made him look so worthless...

[Piccolo Daimao]

The Freeza arc? It started a lot earlier than that. Yamcha's been Mr. "Beaten in the First Round" at tournaments since the very start, Kuririn was always second fiddle to Goku all the way back since they met, and Tenshinhan hadn't been significant since he tried to fight Drum. At least Ten and Kuririn managed to stay halfway relevant in supporting roles, like Kuririn being the brains of his group on Namek and Tenshinhan "helping" against Cell. But when it comes to "who's strong enough to take on the bad guys," they and almost everyone else have always been secondary to Goku.

I think what people mean is that, despite Gokuu generally overshadowing them, they still got their little moments to shine, even outside of the tournaments. Not to mention that they still had a chance of catching up to Gokuu or even remotely giving him a good fight, whether or not he was holding back.

I mean, it's almost funny to think that, back at the 23rd TB, Muten Roushi dubbed Tenshinhan as one of the four best fighters in the world, since he'd reached the finals along with Gokuu, Piccolo and God. And Tenshinhan actually fought evenly with Gokuu, until he removed his weights. Ten and co. are left for dead in the Freeza arc, but they kind of have to be, since they're the entire motivation for that arc. And Kuririn's still a main player there. But then Super Saiyan comes long and blows them out of the water.

[Saiga]

I wouldn't call getting the shit kicked out of them by Nappa "a moment to shine" for the non saiyan fighters...

[Godo]

I wouldn't call getting the shit kicked out of them by Nappa "a moment to shine" for the non saiyan fighters...

I'd say that for being 4 times weaker than Nappa (in the least), they did a marvelous job. If it wasn't for Vegeta, Kuririn's Kienzan would have chopped Nappa's head off.
And also, they killed the Saibamen without any effort. Overall their accomplishments were great. Even though they didn't defeat Nappa, they almost had him several times over.

As for later, Kuririn did a great job against Freeza, despite being, like 12-15 times weaker (Freeza's second form) and also by distracting Freeza when he was about to do Goku in.

During the Cell and Buu arcs, they did pretty much all they could to without being Super Saiya-jins. And without them, the story would look different.

It's easy to say that they "got the shit kicked out of them" as an argument to why they did so badly and never shone. But then we have to think of pretty much any fight during the series, where the Saiya-jins get the living shit kicked out of them.

[dprez]

The way Toriyama progressed his story and the power of his characters, it would surely become more and more difficult to have the human fighters make a difference. Tenshinhan's role in the early Cell arc was pretty awesome, with his Kikoho and all. Fans of the non-saiyan fighters should be glad they at least got the strongest of the humans doing that, especially when you add in his abrupt boo saga appearance. Tenshinahn is definitely my favorite human warrior, and was indeed stronger than Kuririn during the Cell arc.

[Saiga]

I wouldn't call getting the shit kicked out of them by Nappa "a moment to shine" for the non saiyan fighters...

I'd say that for being 4 times weaker than Nappa (in the least), they did a marvelous job. If it wasn't for Vegeta, Kuririn's Kienzan would have chopped Nappa's head off.
And also, they killed the Saibamen without any effort. Overall their accomplishments were great. Even though they didn't defeat Nappa, they almost had him several times over.

As for later, Kuririn did a great job against Freeza, despite being, like 12-15 times weaker (Freeza's second form) and also by distracting Freeza when he was about to do Goku in.

During the Cell and Buu arcs, they did pretty much all they could to without being Super Saiya-jins. And without them, the story would look different.

It's easy to say that they "got the shit kicked out of them" as an argument to why they did so badly and never shone. But then we have to think of pretty much any fight during the series, where the Saiya-jins get the living shit kicked out of them.

They weren't four times weaker... they were nearing half of Nappa's strength, based off the numbers in the guide books. They didn't come close to beating him several times over, it was only the Kienzan that might've done it and that's less of an achievement on the human's part and more plot induced stupidity for Nappa.

Killing the Saibaiman wasn't that great. Mostly it was Kurilin (again) who did it in an impressive way, for taking out 3 of them in one blow.

And Kurilin didn't exactly shine during the Freeza arc. He spent most of the time terrified and his first proper fight nearly got him killed until Vegeta bailed him out. He managed to distract Freeza, sure. That's not exactly amazing or fantastic.

The way Toriyama progressed his story and the power of his characters, it would surely become more and more difficult to have the human fighters make a difference. Tenshinhan's role in the early Cell arc was pretty awesome, with his Kikoho and all. Fans of the non-saiyan fighters should be glad they at least got the strongest of the humans doing that, especially when you add in his abrupt boo saga appearance. Tenshinahn is definitely my favorite human warrior, and was indeed stronger than Kuririn during the Cell arc.

There's no way to say for sure who was stronger, but I believe that the Shin Kikoho definitely shouldn't be used as a measure of his strength because it's the technique that was able to push Cell down, not Tenshinhan's power (obviously Tenshinhan doesn't have the power for that).

[dprez]

The way Toriyama progressed his story and the power of his characters, it would surely become more and more difficult to have the human fighters make a difference. Tenshinhan's role in the early Cell arc was pretty awesome, with his Kikoho and all. Fans of the non-saiyan fighters should be glad they at least got the strongest of the humans doing that, especially when you add in his abrupt boo saga appearance. Tenshinahn is definitely my favorite human warrior, and was indeed stronger than Kuririn during the Cell arc.

There's no way to say for sure who was stronger, but I believe that the Shin Kikoho definitely shouldn't be used as a measure of his strength because it's the technique that was able to push Cell down, not Tenshinhan's power (obviously Tenshinhan doesn't have the power for that).

Except that Tenshinhan was clearly much stronger than Kuririn until he got his power-up on Namek. After this Tenshinhan remained on Kaio's planet and continued his training, which could have granted results that surpassed Kuririns power-up on Namek. Adding the demeanor of Tenshinhan compared to Kuririn during the Artificial Human/Cell arcs, the three eyed man seamed to be the stronger of the two, with or without his Kikoho.

[Saiga]

Except that Tenshinhan was clearly much stronger than Kuririn until he got his power-up on Namek. After this Tenshinhan remained on Kaio's planet and continued his training, which could have granted results that surpassed Kuririns power-up on Namek. Adding the demeanor of Tenshinhan compared to Kuririn during the Artificial Human/Cell arcs, the three eyed man seamed to be the stronger of the two, with or without his Kikoho.

Saiyan arc Tenshinhan was 1830 compared to Saiyan arc Kurilin's 1770. If you don't go by the official power levels given, there is nothing to suggest that Tenshinhan is stronger because their only real feats are defeating Saibaimen, and Kurilin took out 3 in one shot while Tenshinhan beat one down in melee so that's hard to compare.

The Guru power up (by official numbers) puts Kurilin from around 13,000 - 75,000 which is an absolutely massive increase even at its lowest. Given they were neck and neck before, it seems hard to believe that Tenshinhan could catch up and surpass him by the Cell arc.

Attitude doesn't denote strength at all, so it's pointless to compare demeanour.

[dprez]

Tenshinhan easily slaughtered one saibamen, while Kuririn used a full power ki attack to take out all of them at once.

We have no idea how strong Tenshinhan got after his extra time on Kaio's planet, but being who he was, and how he had shown superiority to Kuririn throughout early Dragon Ball, I don't think is it so farfetched to think he caught up to Kuririn when Freeza came to earth.

I think his attitude does actually show a lot during the Artificial human and Cell arcs. He does seam to be stronger than Kuririn just like he always has been, especially while they meet and face the androids and show what they are capable of. His Kikoho may not be a fare example of how strong Tenshinhan is compared to Kuririn, but it's still out there, and proves what he is capable of.

[Saiga]

Tenshinhan easily slaughtered one saibamen, while Kuririn used a full power ki attack to take out all of them at once.

He didn't slaughter it, he beat it down. Vegeta was the one that killed it after it got back up. Anyway, it isn't easy to compare the two feats.

We have no idea how strong Tenshinhan got after his extra time on Kaio's planet, but being who he was, and how he had shown superiority to Kuririn throughout early Dragon Ball, I don't think is it so farfetched to think he caught up to Kuririn when Freeza came to earth.

He had a head start. The Saiyan arc numbers vs Nappa are closer together than the saiyan arc numbers after Raditz's defeat, showing that it was Kurilin catching up to Tenshinhan. He was only really "superior" to Kurilin in his first appearance where he was even with Goku, after that he was just a bit better then Kurilin.

I think his attitude does actually show a lot during the Artificial human and Cell arcs. He does seam to be stronger than Kuririn just like he always has been, especially while they meet and face the androids and show what they are capable of. His Kikoho may not be a fare example of how strong Tenshinhan is compared to Kuririn, but it's still out there, and proves what he is capable of.

They don't show anything against the androids though. And an attitude isn't connected to strength, Goku acted a lot more confident than Gohan who was stronger than him.

[Attitudefan]

Except that Tenshinhan was clearly much stronger than Kuririn until he got his power-up on Namek. After this Tenshinhan remained on Kaio's planet and continued his training, which could have granted results that surpassed Kuririns power-up on Namek. Adding the demeanor of Tenshinhan compared to Kuririn during the Artificial Human/Cell arcs, the three eyed man seamed to be the stronger of the two, with or without his Kikoho.

Saiyan arc Tenshinhan was 1830 compared to Saiyan arc Kurilin's 1770. If you don't go by the official power levels given, there is nothing to suggest that Tenshinhan is stronger because their only real feats are defeating Saibaimen, and Kurilin took out 3 in one shot while Tenshinhan beat one down in melee so that's hard to compare.

The Guru power up (by official numbers) puts Kurilin from around 13,000 - 75,000 which is an absolutely massive increase even at its lowest. Given they were neck and neck before, it seems hard to believe that Tenshinhan could catch up and surpass him by the Cell arc.

Attitude doesn't denote strength at all, so it's pointless to compare demeanour.

I try to stay away from power levels haha!
I just believe he could have been used better than he was. Krillin should have as well!

It does seem that Ten is possible around or above Krillin with how he acts in a fight. Unlike with Nappa, Ten was more willing to fight the androids; so, in theory, he might have thought he was strong enough to do something.

[Saiga]

I try to stay away from power levels haha!
I just believe he could have been used better than he was. Krillin should have as well!

It does seem that Ten is possible around or above Krillin with how he acts in a fight. Unlike with Nappa, Ten was more willing to fight the androids; so, in theory, he might have thought he was strong enough to do something.

All of the humans could have been used better, Toriyama didn't even need them to be caught up with the heroes. They could have just had lower tier villains for the humans to fight while the saiyans fought the big bad type villains, so that everyone at least gets there share of battle time.

It seems Tenshinhan definitely believed he could be of use against the Androids, but he was in way over his head with that.

[dprez]

I just believe that it's harder to prove Kuririn > Tenshinhan than it is that Tenshinhan > Kuririn during the android arc.