Goku,Gohan reached limits in Base and SSJ in Time Chamber

[Saiga]

I don't think they reached the limits of base and Super Saiyan... they reached a sort of "temporary limit" that was broken when both of them unlocked SS2. The way I see it, the Saiyans hit a wall when they get close to a new transformation and they can't progress any more until they overcome that wall.

Well you yust proved my theory. Only thing is why would you say they didnt reached limits in base,ssj, if they hit wall ? You do realize Goku sad getting stronger isnt an option ( because he neads transformation that would give him enough space to get stronger ).

Because once they overcome that wall, they can continue to get stronger once more.

[Super Vegetto]

I don't think they reached the limits of base and Super Saiyan... they reached a sort of "temporary limit" that was broken when both of them unlocked SS2. The way I see it, the Saiyans hit a wall when they get close to a new transformation and they can't progress any more until they overcome that wall.

Well you yust proved my theory. Only thing is why would you say they didnt reached limits in base,ssj, if they hit wall ? You do realize Goku sad getting stronger isnt an option ( because he neads transformation that would give him enough space to get stronger ).

Because once they overcome that wall, they can continue to get stronger once more.

Training in ssj2 and to get stronger but not in forms they already reached limit is imo because nothing says they got stronger in base,ssj after 7 years.

[Saiga]

Training in ssj2 and to get stronger but not in forms they already reached limit is imo because nothing says they got stronger in base,ssj after 7 years.

That doesn't really work though, because the forms are only multipliers.

[Super Vegetto]

Training in ssj2 and to get stronger but not in forms they already reached limit is imo because nothing says they got stronger in base,ssj after 7 years.

That doesn't really work though, because the forms are only multipliers.

If forms are only multiplys then why did Goku got stronger in FPSSJ. Why did he trained in ssj, and why did he sad FPSSJ reached limit in Cell saga.

[Fox666]

"Full-power Super Saiyan" is just the regular Super Saiyan form with more control.

[Super Vegetto]

"Full-power Super Saiyan" is just the regular Super Saiyan form with more control.

They got stronger with using FPSSJ and basicly they got same multiply for FPSSJ and SSJ, but have acces to more power they earned with training.

[Saiga]

Training in ssj2 and to get stronger but not in forms they already reached limit is imo because nothing says they got stronger in base,ssj after 7 years.

That doesn't really work though, because the forms are only multipliers.

If forms are only multiplys then why did Goku got stronger in FPSSJ. Why did he trained in ssj, and why did he sad FPSSJ reached limit in Cell saga.

Because Goku's base got stronger.

[Gabool The Wild]

I don't think any of the characters reach a limit to their own power. I just believe that they are limited by the training they have at their disposal. It's like DBZGTKOSDH said, eventually the training at hand doesn't bear the same results that it once did. So in order to get more powerful better methods of training are required, and not everyone gets the training that Goku did in the afterlife.

First of all saiyans are not humans. Second of all its transformation what makes things diffrent and not diffrent training. You do realize they train full body every day. This is not real life where you change workout methods to get diffrent results. Goku achived limit of SSJ state. Its called FPSSJ. There is no other way in improving in the strongest SSJ form without transforming in even more powerful state.

I disagree. I don't believe that anyone reaches a limit to their base power. Their training methods just aren't good enough, so they don't appear to improve very much. Also, I don't believe their is a limit to any SSJ form. SSJ is a multiplier of one's base power so the form will get more powerful as the base power is raised. The other transformations are used when one needs an even more powerful boost in strength. It's not that the previous form is useless because it can't get any more powerful, it's just that the next form draws out more power and is more useful for the situation.

[Fox666]

Still it's ironic that they made themselves many many times more powerfull while trying to break the Super Saiyan barrier, and that barrier was only a 2 times multiplier.

[Bussani]

I basically agree with Gabool. Dragon Ball is almost always about finding the next training method. Goku trained under Kamesennin until he had nothing left to teach him, then left and learned from someone stronger. He had his dormant power drawn out and thought he was the strongest person in the world, only to find once again that he still had room to improve, and grew more under Popo and Kami. After Kaio, Goku himself said he thought he'd hit some sort of peak of power, only to see how much farther above him Vegeta still was, and he proceeded to do some of his most intense training yet in order to surpass that.

In the end, I do find it hard to believe there is some kind of hard limit to how strong these guys can get. There are walls, limits, peaks, etc, but only until you find the next way to overcome them. The stronger they get, the harder it is to find these new training methods, and that's when transformations start to become more important--but that's less a hard, insurmountable limit and more a question of practicality, I think.

Still it's ironic that they made themselves many many times more powerfull while trying to break the Super Saiyan barrier, and that barrier was only a 2 times multiplier.

Yeah, that is pretty funny when you stop and think about it.

[Saiga]

Still it's ironic that they made themselves many many times more powerfull while trying to break the Super Saiyan barrier, and that barrier was only a 2 times multiplier.

Yeah, that is pretty funny when you stop and think about it.

I guess it's like Old Kai said, transforming is the wrong way of doing thing.

[FNF]

There's no limit in DB.

Why they nead transformation if base is only thing that grows and they dont have limit ? Babidi says he unlocked Vegeta power to limit, Old kai Gohans power to limit. No limit logic means same as gt logic. Base Goku > SSJ3 Goku Buu saga which is pretty ridiculous logic.


I think you have been reading a different manga;

Goku: “Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. ”

So...yeah. Enraged Oob = Pure Boo in terms of power.

He realized Uub has potential not that base Goku > Kid buu lol

Read :

Doesn't disprove anything lol. One of the worst counters I have seen. Goku states that Oob's 'true power' was as good as he expected and he expected to have a rematch with Pure Boo's incarnation.

@Your later post, it's just another load of incoherent nonsense that doesn't disprove anything. No one is using GT logic. It's stated in the manga itself.

Enraged Oob~Pure Boo~base Goku(eoz).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Enraged Oob~Pure Boo~base Goku(eoz).

While I used to believe that before, I've now changed my mind. Enraged Oob may be almost equal in power with Pure Boo, but I believe Oob can't control properly this power. Plus, he can't fly, he can't use any ki attacks besides Kiai, and he is not a skillfull & experienced fighter. Which would result base Goku being capable on holding his own against Oob without having to become a SSJ.

[FNF]

Enraged Oob~Pure Boo~base Goku(eoz).

While I used to believe that before, I've now changed my mind. Enraged Oob may be almost equal in power with Pure Boo, but I believe Oob can't control properly this power. Plus, he can't fly, he can't use any ki attacks besides Kiai, and he is not a skillfull & experienced fighter. Which would result base Goku being capable on holding his own against Oob without having to become a SSJ.

Well I am talking power wise. I'm not arguing that Oob is Pure Boo's equal in terms of ability.
I don't see any way around making Goku's base at least very close to his SSjin3 from the Boo arc. Goku did say he would need to get much better for their rematch. You could probably chalk that down to him eliminating the strain of SSjin3 and focusing on his base and thus he would be 'much better'.

[Saiga]

I don't see any way around making Goku's base at least very close to his SSjin3 from the Boo arc.

Most people I know don't even have him come close to his SS form from the Boo arc, and for good reason: It's a ridiculous gain to make.

[hleV]

I checked the Strength Checker regarding Oob's strength and nothing suggests that Oob displayed a power on par with Pure Boo's, just that he's as amazing as Goku expected, which can mean many things, like that Goku was made sure that Oob really has hidden powers within himself.

[Super Vegetto]

There's no limit in DB.

Why they nead transformation if base is only thing that grows and they dont have limit ? Babidi says he unlocked Vegeta power to limit, Old kai Gohans power to limit. No limit logic means same as gt logic. Base Goku > SSJ3 Goku Buu saga which is pretty ridiculous logic.


I think you have been reading a different manga;

Goku: “Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected. ”

So...yeah. Enraged Oob = Pure Boo in terms of power.

He realized Uub has potential not that base Goku > Kid buu lol

Read :

Doesn't disprove anything lol. One of the worst counters I have seen. Goku states that Oob's 'true power' was as good as he expected and he expected to have a rematch with Pure Boo's incarnation.

@Your later post, it's just another load of incoherent nonsense that doesn't disprove anything. No one is using GT logic. It's stated in the manga itself.

Enraged Oob~Pure Boo~base Goku(eoz).

Whats funny is that you actualy belive Uub was Kid buu in powers but its never stated like that. Its only stated that Uub is strong and that he didnt learnd to use his strenght, which means base Goku is not strong because he reached peak.
Goku saying he neads to go 100% (ssj3) before realizing Uub is weakling is what makes Goku also weak and on peak.
Because of peoples like you, almost everyone thinks Goku after 10 years > Mystic Gohan which is pretty much bullshit.
Oh yea here is proof that Uub is only strong and not Kid buu in powers.



Btw next time show me proof and then prove me wrong.

"You are who i though you were" is in translation Kid buu.

[Bussani]

Super Vegetto, you really should stop relying on those scanlations if you're trying to prove your point. Leaving aside the fact that they're illegal, their translation is completely, misleadingly wrong in a lot of places. For example:

Goku saying he neads to go 100% (ssj3) before realizing Uub is weakling is what makes Goku also weak and on peak.

He isn't talking about Super Saiyan 3. He says he wants to fight Uub when they both have 100% of their stamina in tact.

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P10.2
Context: Goku asks Boo to rig the match-ups so he can fight Oob
Goku: “…Sorry, but I wanna fight with him no matter what, in the 1st round when both of us still have 100% of our stamina…”

And I don't see why the only explanation for Goku not being stronger than Buu or Mystic Gohan is that he must have hit an impassable limit. It's possible to think he didn't get that strong without also thinking he could never get any stronger.

Again, I'm not saying your idea that Goku reached his limit and didn't get any stronger after the Cell saga is wrong. Some people believe that, and it's a pretty valid interpretation. But other people interpret it another way, and the evidence you're trying to use isn't solid or accurate enough to prove their way wrong.

[Super Vegetto]

Why he neads 100% stamina if he is all mighy without transforming ? You do relize his stamina gets bigger with transformation because body is taking transformation diffrently. Its SSJ > Kaio-ken 50x btw because of stamina...
Goku saying he neads 100% stamina is ssj3 because thats his 100% stamina. He realized Uub cant fight so he goes easly on him. If Uub is realy Kid buu in powers during world tournament than his statment of 100% is false because he didnt got scratch against Uub who is (Kid buu in powers) but Uub is weak which is the reason Goku did fought him in yust base and not all out.

Its stated they reached limit before Cell games so its your word vs manga word. I'm going by what is stated and not what others stated for now.

[hleV]

Goku wants to fight Oob before they get tired, that's all.