Goku and the use of Lethal Force

[Hades]

I noticed that in Dragonball, Goku had no regrets about killing enemies, even when they were retreating. Yet in Z, he was willing to let mass murderers like Nappa, Vegeta, the Ginyus, Freeza and even Majin Buu live.

Why was that?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

When he wasn't showing mercy he was a kid. Then he trained with Kami(God). I think this explains everything.

[Jackal puFF]

He just didn't care at all back then. He didn't have any guidance or discipline about that kind of stuff till he trained with Kami on the look out.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Gokuu was a child back then, who didn't understand the true meaning of his actions, but his training under the God of Earth showed him the value of life and disciplinary honour in battle. The deaths of his closest friends, Kuririn and Kame-sennin, may've also been a factor.

In Z, he did kill Yakon, but I suppose that it was less direct than what he did to such enemies as Black and Daimaou, and it was only a henchmen, who he may've ranked alongside that of an animal, whom he killed for food. Or perhaps he figured it was better for Yakon to die than survive as an eternal servant of Bobbodi. Or a combination of these theories.

[Nikkolas]

I noticed that in Dragonball, Goku had no regrets about killing enemies, even when they were retreating. Yet in Z, he was willing to let mass murderers like Nappa, Vegeta, the Ginyus, Freeza and even Majin Buu live.

Why was that?

Because Kid Goku had a firm grasp of right and wrong and put them before other things. He didn't give it much thought because DB was a very black-and-white series. Good was good and evil was evil.

Adult Goku was more interested in fighting than morality. He let Vegeta live out of his selfish desire to fight him again.

[Hades]

Yeah, and I have to say that I personally think that post-SSJ3 Goku was responsible for every single death that occurred because he let Buu live instead of taking the opportunity to kill it.

[Fox666]

As a kid, Goku had no idea of what he was doing. Then he was disciplined by Kami-sama.

[Bussani]

Yeah, and I have to say that I personally think that post-SSJ3 Goku was responsible for every single death that occurred because he let Buu live instead of taking the opportunity to kill it.

If he'd killed it, gone back to being dead, and something else had come along and wiped out the Earth, would you blame him too for not letting the next generation learn to deal with problems themselves?

That's a hypothetical, obviously, but it's really easy to say, "Every death after this point is ______'s fault because he/she didn't ______." Hindsight is 20/20, as they say.

[Hades]

Yeah, and I have to say that I personally think that post-SSJ3 Goku was responsible for every single death that occurred because he let Buu live instead of taking the opportunity to kill it.

If he'd killed it, gone back to being dead, and something else had come along and wiped out the Earth, would you blame him too for not letting the next generation learn to deal with problems themselves?

I don't get your logic. It is like an experienced IT technician on the brink of retirement at a company leaving a major computer problem to a complete rookie because "the next generation has to deal with problems themselves" and expecting them to fix it completely on their own, even when such a problem could potentially cause the company huge losses and get the rookie fired as a result.

Goku was facing a monster that had killed the King of the Demons, Vegeta, and ultimately his son (supposedly). On top of that, the monster had been slaughtering cities. He had the one solid chance of killing this monster before it could wipe out the Earth, yet because of this one act of idiocy, Buu was allowed to live.

[Bussani]

I don't get your logic. It is like an experienced IT technician on the brink of retirement at a company leaving a major computer problem to a complete rookie because "the next generation has to deal with problems themselves" and expecting them to fix it completely on their own, even when such a problem could potentially cause the company huge losses and get the rookie fired as a result.

He didn't leave them completely on their own; he gave them everything they needed to win, at least as far as he knew at the time. If Buu hadn't transformed and become worse--something no one could have predicted--the world probably would have been fine in their hands. If things did go tits up, there are probably several ways the situation could still be salvaged.

Using your own example, it wouldn't surprise me if the experienced IT technician gave the rookie everything they needed and then let them handle it--while keeping an eye on them, of course. Sometimes you have to learn by doing. Yes, it's a little extreme when the fate of the world is what's at stake, but that's Dragon Ball for you.

[Nikkolas]

Of course the rookie will have the great idea of not actually trying to fix anything and will just dick around for 90% of the time.

Goku doesn't understand that none of the kids are like him. He uses himself as a sort of hero measuring stick and thus he thinks power = hero material which is just not true. Gohan had all the power in the world but his nature is just not that of a warrior. Goten and Trunks are about as stupid as Goku was but they come packed with flaws that Goku did not have. Flaws that became more than apparent when they fused.

Goku should have learned his lesson after the Cell Games is my point.

[Bussani]

Good points, but I can still see the logic in not relying on the dead guy who won't be around starting tomorrow. If you solve every one of your child's problems for them, what will they do when you're gone? Maybe Goten and Trunks weren't good choices, but Goku was thinking about Earth's future and whether it would be able to manage without him.

[NANLIT]

Also think about how much SSJ3 wiped out his remaining time on Earth. If he had remained to fight Boo as a SSJ3, there would be no guarantee that he'd be able to defeat Boo before his time ran out and/or teach Fusion to Goten and Trunks. Apart from allowing the living to defeat Boo, Goku could probably figure that he may not have time to teach the kis Fusion and possibly not have enough time to defeat Boo as well if he went all out to defeat Boo then and there.

[Adamant]

After his battle with Buu, Uranai Baba tells Goku he has half an hour left on Earth. Goku returned right before the tournament started, and this was right after it conclusion, so he had been on Earth what, 6-7 hours or so? The transformation seriously drained his time, and even while he's fighting there's a scene where Kaiou yells at him to transform back before it's too late.
Going by that, it's incredibly doubtful he would've been capable of doing much against Buu.

[Bussani]

He basically would have had to wipe out Buu in less time than we saw him spend stalling him, and that's assuming that going all out to beat him didn't use up his time even faster. If he did that and then left Earth forever without teaching the kids fusion, what would happen when the next big threat came along?

[lash]

Anytime I see this topic, I think of the Green Lantern Corps.

As most have said, it seems being with Popo and Kami-sama gave Goku some discipline.

[Hades]

Anytime I see this topic, I think of the Green Lantern Corps.

As most have said, it seems being with Popo and Kami-sama gave Goku some discipline.

I don't get why Discipline = no lethal force. Police forces around the world are highly disciplined, yet they are trained to kill should the situation demand it. Goku just slaps his enemies on the wrist, allowing them to go ahead and kill another day, like Vegeta or Majin Buu. Heck, when Cell was at his weakest, goku gave him a senzu.

And Bussani, what prevents Goku from communicating with Piccolo or Dende from Other World about Fusion? I mean, he could just ask Kaio or Enma to pass down a message.

[Beatrice]

Goku just slaps his enemies on the wrist, allowing them to go ahead and kill another day, like Vegeta or Majin Buu. Heck, when Cell was at his weakest, goku gave him a senzu.

Oh, this is why I have such conflicting feelings about Goku. He's clearly a good person who wants to protect his friends and family, however, he seems to place more value on getting a "good fight" instead of getting the baddie down.

I'd also say that Popo and Kami taught Goku not so much discipline but more respect for life... But that doesn't fit with Goku's behavior of letting bad guys live so he can fight them another day.

[Bussani]

And Bussani, what prevents Goku from communicating with Piccolo or Dende from Other World about Fusion? I mean, he could just ask Kaio or Enma to pass down a message.

If that's the case, it makes the whole, "Oh no, I only have thirty minutes left to teach them this now?!" thing kind of silly.

[Saiga]

It'd be a lot harder communicating it through telepathy then just showing it in person.