The hype over Ocean Dub

[DarkPrince_92]

I don't see it, or get it. Brian Drummond makes Vegeta sound like an imp-villain. He reminds me of that Bones character from Yugioh. I sorta like the Goku's (Corrlet/Kelamis/whoever else), except when sounded like a surfer dude. What I hear from fans of the Ocean dub, the acting quality is better. I feel a lot more emotion from the Ocean cast, it's a good performance, but....the voices themselves (most not all) are pretty bad. The only voice I thought did a good job was Recoome's VA. Also this isn't to say other English dubs are any better, I don't want this to turn into another Funimation in-house vs. Ocean debate....

Serious thoughts people.

[DBZAOTA482]

The vocal performance was excellent until post-episode 53 and worsen as it went along, which was when FUNimation in-house took over for the US and we all know what intially came out of that. Let's just say it's a nightmare to you.

[Rory]

Thing about the Ocean cast, was you could tell they were actors. Not librarians, before taking the roles of the characters.
Drummond's Vegeta sounded a lot more prideful and cocky, I thought, not some 'Imp'. Also, there wasn't a stupid amount of rasp everywhere.
Kelamis was my favourite though, especially in the movies. What a fantastic replacement for Nozawa, channelled her perfectly.

[eledoremassis02]

I am a huge Ocean fan and I really don't find that there is any Hype over it. What I see is that there are a lot of Ocean Fans in Europe, Canada and a a bit in the U.S. And then FUNimation fans in the U.S, maybe a bit in Canada and some of Europe and Australia. Then the flame wars start.

Of course there are those who like both.

[penguintruth]

Rabid Ocean fans are delusional. They seem to forget that the Ocean days were the same days of "the next dimension", "Your father was a brilliant scientist", and just terrible voices and acting from the VAs for more than half the cast. And the dub of the later seasons was even worse at times, with a few exceptions (Brad Swaile did well as older Gohan). Especially with the laziness of recycling Mega Man cartoon music. At least the Faulconer music was produced specially for the show.

I do have a certain fondness for Peter Kelamis, Scott McNeil, Brian Drummond, and Saffron Henderson, but for the most part, the VAs were terrible.

Now, the Funimation dub of Z is pretty awful, but Ocean didn't really do it any better. But maybe they'll redeem themselves with that Kai dub nobody knows when is coming.

[eledoremassis02]

Rabid Ocean fans are delusional. They seem to forget that the Ocean days were the same days of "the next dimension", "Your father was a brilliant scientist", and just terrible voices and acting from the VAs for more than half the cast. And the dub of the later seasons were even worse at times, with a few exceptions (Brad Swaile did well as older Gohan).

I do have a certain fondness for Peter Kelamis, Scott McNeil, Brian Drummond, and Saffron Henderson, but for the most part, the VAs were terrible.

Now, the Funimation dub of Z is pretty awful, but Ocean didn't really do it any better.

I really have no problem with the next dimension and it's a lot better than if he would say "I will destroy you". Of course "Your father was a brilliant scientist" is just plain wrong. You really got to take certain aspects with what was "acceptable" during that time. Many people just took it for what it was because the Japanese version was not around and that meant there was more freedom (if you will) when dubbing. But I really have no problem if you're not a huge fan of the VAs. ^^ I personally like them and sometimes it's hard to decide if I like them better than the Japanese VA's.

[Gaffer Tape]

Rabid Ocean fans are delusional. They seem to forget that the Ocean days were the same days of "the next dimension", "Your father was a brilliant scientist", and just terrible voices and acting from the VAs for more than half the cast. Especially with the laziness of recycling Mega Man cartoon music. At least the Faulconer music was produced specially for the show.

Considering that Ocean is just the collective name of the voice cast, it's unfair to fault them for line changes or music choice. That would be like blaming Sean Schemmel for "I am the hope of the universe" when he just got paid to say it, not write it. It's FUNimation who's just as responsible for "brilliant scientist" as "ally to good."

[Son Satan]

Considering that Ocean is just the collective name of the voice cast, it's unfair to fault them for line changes or music choice. That would be like blaming Sean Schemmel for "I am the hope of the universe" when he just got paid to say it, not write it. It's FUNimation who's just as responsible for "brilliant scientist" as "ally to good."

I think what penguintruth is really trying to say that the dub writing was at some of it's wildest and most botched in the early days with the Ocean cast.

[Metalwario64]

Rabid Ocean fans are delusional. They seem to forget that the Ocean days were the same days of "the next dimension", "Your father was a brilliant scientist", and just terrible voices and acting from the VAs for more than half the cast. Especially with the laziness of recycling Mega Man cartoon music. At least the Faulconer music was produced specially for the show.

Considering that Ocean is just the collective name of the voice cast, it's unfair to fault them for line changes or music choice. That would be like blaming Sean Schemmel for "I am the hope of the universe" when he just got paid to say it, not write it. It's FUNimation who's just as responsible for "brilliant scientist" as "ally to good."

I don't think he's saying Ocean was responsible for all of those alterations. It seemed to me that he was speaking of the product as a whole, which the Ocean cast provided the voices for (as most people do), considering he said "the ocean days", which would refer to the dub around the time period Ocean was providing the voices.

[penguintruth]

Yeah, I guess I was just commenting on the overall quality of the dub in that time.

If we're going merely by voice acting, it's still not great.

[DarkPrince_92]

I guess when it comes down too it, the only impression I have of Ocean is from way back in the day, and it isn't fair to compare it to anything Funimation is doing now. If it's more accurate and less 4Kids-ish (I don't know why, when I think Ocean I think 4kids) than it was back then with Toonami, Ocean version of Kai probably isn't a bad idea like I originally thought.

[eledoremassis02]

Well, I'd think of the ocean movies in that regard. And they seemed to be likes by both sides and considered to be the most "faithful" ^^

[VegettoEX]

As others are hinting at, any time you mention "Ocean" with regard to Dragon Ball Z, you really have to further clarify. Do you mean:

1) The original 1996-1998 dub of the first 53 edited English episodes of Dragon Ball Z as produced by FUNimation
2) The 1998-1999 English dubs of the first three Dragon Ball Z movies as produced by FUNimation and Pioneer
3) The ~2001ish(?) "alternate" English dub of Dragon Ball Z produced primarily for the UK market spanning Androids -> end of series

...?

I know I sound like a broken record when I mention that stuff, but I just saw a conversation on another forum just today where someone explained how their mind was blown and they had to go punch their friends in the faces for insisting for so many years that 1996-1998 had nothing to do with FUNimation what-so-ever (with links back to Kanzenshuu, which is how I found it all ).

As others have quasi-mentioned here in this thread and plenty in other threads, a lot of it has to do with the voice selection, sure... but a ton more had to do with the voice direction. Look at some of the casting and especially look at some of the performances they pulled out of that cast for the three movies. They're consistently looked at and pointed to as some of the best-produced "English" DBZ to this day, and even hardcore FUNimation-in-house-cast fans will typically concede to that.

And yet that was the same cast (more or less) that did the 53 episodes, and many of which went on to do the "alternate" English dub for the rest of the series. How on Earth it's possible to get a bad performance out of Scott McNeil is beyond me, but gosh darn it, they did it! A lot of it was rushed production, over-exertion, poor multi-casting ("Hey, do this other voice! Now this other guy! Now back to this guy! Do them all! Probably in the same day! For barely any money!").

So when you say "hype", I guess... for what? For an existing product, or like you were mentioning, this theoretical upcoming alternate English dub of Kai outsourcing voice talent to Ocean?

Many fans stick by voice casts they have become indoctrinated acquainted with, so maybe they'll overcompensate their excitement. Maybe they're truly that excited. Who knows? People want things, and they hope that they'll turn out well. Story of the Internet, right there!

[Zestanor]

The Ocean - Funimation thing is kinda like the fruit - vegetable argument. Scientifically, an avocado is not a vegetable. However, that is because scientifically, vegetables do not exist. But in the culinary world, vegetables do exist, and so they take some of what scientifically are the 'fruits of a plant' (tomatoes, avocados, etc.) into their food group, mostly based on taste. Tomatoes and avocados are the fruits of their plant, but in cooking, they are most often considered veggies because they are 'savory.' (What I'm trying to get at here is that there is a difference between a botanical fruit and a culinary fruit.)

How does that relate to the dubs? ... It made more sense in my head. Well, let's say that Funi's in-house 54-276 are apples. Their UUC redubbed 1-67 are oranges. Their original 1-53 with Saban are tomatoes. The 3 Pioneer movies are avocados. The Westwood dub with the returning cast from the tomato dub has episodes that are lettuce.

Now, separate the fruits and the not-fruits... Which are 'Funi dub,' and which are 'Ocean dub?'

[Kendamu]

I remember back in the day, when the in-house cast first started, how every dub fan was an Ocean fan and how FUNimation blatantly disregarded those fans, who hated the new cast, as stupid loser Otaku nerds who should quit their bitching. I'm not exactly sure when the shift happened that put the current cast in favor. Maybe when the kids who "grew up with it" grew up and all the older fans moved on?

I do remember the Ocean cast days with nostalgic happiness, but if I actually try and watch the episodes I can't make it more than a few minutes without ruining the nostalgia. The movies, on the other hand, have aged really well and have some of that cast's best performances. I watched DBZ Movie 2 with that cast the other day and it still feels like my ideal dub. When I read the manga, it reads in my head like those movies play on screen (up to a point).

[RazorX]

Upon discovering that Ocean continued dubbing DBZ post Frieza saga, I've seen comments from people saying the like of their mind being blown and questioning reality. ie they found it amazing that the "Saiyan-Namek" cast completed dubbing DBZ. The Ocean dub is something that is spectacular, Ocean set a precedent for amazing voice acting, and when you have that level of quality taken away from you, you realise even more how great it was. And when it returns (almost unexpectedly) you appreciate it, a lot. I'm referring to DBZ.

When Dragon Ball Kai started broadcast, an Ocean dubbed version seemed like a dream to some people, including myself. We didn't think it would happen but wanted it anyway.

Then, it was revealed, something which people wished for but didn't have a lot of hope for happening, is actually happening. To hear the amazing Canadian voice cast redub an amazing show speaks volumes for why it is hyped.

When it was revealed that there would be voice actors from Ocean's DBZ dub returning to their roles for DB Kai, the hype increased. When Scott McNeil revealed he's returning for pretty much all of his roles, most importantly Piccolo, excitement grew to all high levels.

Scott McNeil and Brian Drummond are universally regarded as 2 of the best voice actors ever to have been involved in a Dragon Ball dub. We have confirmation of Scott McNeil returning, if we get confirmation of Brian Drummond returning, I'd expect the hype to reach an even higher level.

It's waiting for it to come. We have a very active topic in the Kai section spanning over 60 pages and all we barely know any details about the Ocean dub of Kai.

Rabid Ocean fans are delusional. They seem to forget that the Ocean days were the same days of "the next dimension", "Your father was a brilliant scientist", and just terrible voices and acting from the VAs for more than half the cast.

Others have pointed it out, but it's worth reiterating that the script was overseen by Funimation, the blame for those lines ca't be put on Ocean, who were hired to handle the voice talent.

As for the voices, the Ocean cast actually seem like the voices you'd expect to come out of the characters mouths, along with commendable acting, they do a damn good job of portraying the characters in the DB series.

Look at some of the casting and especially look at some of the performances they pulled out of that cast for the three movies. They're consistently looked at and pointed to as some of the best-produced "English" DBZ to this day, and even hardcore FUNimation-in-house-cast fans will typically concede to that.

The first DBZ movies dub by Ocean are amazing, the quality does seem to be better than the first 53 episodes (which itself is also really good) Whilst I can see why people see the Ocean dub of the 1st 3 movies as the best English dub to date, I feel there are ample moments in the Ocean dub of the Buu saga to put Ocean Buu quality above the Ocean movies 1-3 quality.

How on Earth it's possible to get a bad performance out of Scott McNeil is beyond me, but gosh darn it, they did it!

I don't think they did.

Some of the best screams from Scott McNeil's career came from the later Ocean dub, such as here.

I remember back in the day, when the in-house cast first started, how every dub fan was an Ocean fan and how FUNimation blatantly disregarded those fans, who hated the new cast, as stupid loser Otaku nerds who should quit their bitching.

The "bitching" as Funimation put it, was also happening in various English speaking countries whose fans didnt take kindly to the Funi dub, and because fans made their voices heard (among other reasons), the Ocean cast returned. That is a case of giving the consumer what they want and making good money out of it.

[Gaffer Tape]

The Ocean - Funimation thing is kinda like the fruit - vegetable argument. Scientifically, an avocado is not a vegetable. However, that is because scientifically, vegetables do not exist. But in the culinary world, vegetables do exist, and so they take some of what scientifically are the 'fruits of a plant' (tomatoes, avocados, etc.) into their food group, mostly based on taste. Tomatoes and avocados are the fruits of their plant, but in cooking, they are most often considered veggies because they are 'savory.' (What I'm trying to get at here is that there is a difference between a botanical fruit and a culinary fruit.)

How does that relate to the dubs? ... It made more sense in my head. Well, let's say that Funi's in-house 54-276 are apples. Their UUC redubbed 1-67 are oranges. Their original 1-53 with Saban are tomatoes. The 3 Pioneer movies are avocados. The Westwood dub with the returning cast from the tomato dub has episodes that are lettuce.

Now, separate the fruits and the not-fruits... Which are 'Funi dub,' and which are 'Ocean dub?'

It's really not even as complicated as that, as long as you use the terms consistently. "FUNi" or "FUNimation" can refer to either the cast, which is in-house working for FUNimation, or the actual dub itself. "Ocean dub" is something of a misnomer, as Ocean never produced a dub of any Dragon Ball property. Now, if you're referring to "Ocean dub" as simply shorthand for the actual voice dubbing done by the Ocean cast, then it's simple: "FUNi dub" refers to anything that uses the FUNimation in-house voice cast, be it seasons 3 through 6 of Z, any of GT, or Kai, and "Ocean dub" refers to anything with the Ocean cast, be it the first 53 episodes, the 3 movies, or the Westwood dub. But like I said, calling it the "Ocean dub" is misleading in its terminology because it does lead people to believe those three, completely separate dubs are a single production headed by Ocean. That's why I prefer the term "Ocean dub" not be used at all because that makes it all more complicated than it needs to be. When you take that out of mix, it's quite easy to "separate the fruits and not-fruits" as you say.

[eledoremassis02]

The Ocean - Funimation thing is kinda like the fruit - vegetable argument. Scientifically, an avocado is not a vegetable. However, that is because scientifically, vegetables do not exist. But in the culinary world, vegetables do exist, and so they take some of what scientifically are the 'fruits of a plant' (tomatoes, avocados, etc.) into their food group, mostly based on taste. Tomatoes and avocados are the fruits of their plant, but in cooking, they are most often considered veggies because they are 'savory.' (What I'm trying to get at here is that there is a difference between a botanical fruit and a culinary fruit.)

How does that relate to the dubs? ... It made more sense in my head. Well, let's say that Funi's in-house 54-276 are apples. Their UUC redubbed 1-67 are oranges. Their original 1-53 with Saban are tomatoes. The 3 Pioneer movies are avocados. The Westwood dub with the returning cast from the tomato dub has episodes that are lettuce.

Now, separate the fruits and the not-fruits... Which are 'Funi dub,' and which are 'Ocean dub?'

It's really not even as complicated as that, as long as you use the terms consistently. "FUNi" or "FUNimation" can refer to either the cast, which is in-house working for FUNimation, or the actual dub itself. "Ocean dub" is something of a misnomer, as Ocean never produced a dub of any Dragon Ball property. Now, if you're referring to "Ocean dub" as simply shorthand for the actual voice dubbing done by the Ocean cast, then it's simple: "FUNi dub" refers to anything that uses the FUNimation in-house voice cast, be it seasons 3 through 6 of Z, any of GT, or Kai, and "Ocean dub" refers to anything with the Ocean cast, be it the first 53 episodes, the 3 movies, or the Westwood dub. But like I said, calling it the "Ocean dub" is misleading in its terminology because it does lead people to believe those three, completely separate dubs are a single production headed by Ocean. That's why I prefer the term "Ocean dub" not be used at all because that makes it all more complicated than it needs to be. When you take that out of mix, it's quite easy to "separate the fruits and not-fruits" as you say.

I used to call it the Pioneer dub cause that's who distributed it... >__> But know I just call it the ocean dub as well.

[KiddoCabbusses]

When trying to talk in short-hand (so that we don't end up with multi-paragraph essays about whom did what in regards to what dub) I tend to term the dubs as "Saban" or "syndicated" for the original 52/TV Version of Tree of Might, "Pioneer" for the 3 movies, "FUNi" for pretty much all of FUNi's in-house dubbing/redubbing, and "Mega Man Music" for the latter Ocean-VAed parts.

(Yes, I just can't let go of Super Fighting Robot, Mega Man.)

[Gaffer Tape]

Wow. I am currently listening to episode #296 of the podcast (still trying to catch up!), and I had no idea that Mike and Heath said, almost verbatim, what I just said in my post in this thread. I swear it was entirely unintentional. I was trying to be original, I promise! And what an amazing coincidence that I would listen to this episode on the same day! OMGOSH!