The hype over Ocean Dub

[kemuri07]

I certainly do side more with the funimation dub than I do with the Ocean Dub, as that has been ingrained in my brain since I was a child (though I used to watch the old ocean dubs all the time as well)

While I certainly agree that there are some fantastic things about the ocean dub, I guess I just don't understand people who absolutely swear by that dub as I think it contains many of the same issues that plagued the funimation dub.

Though, I do agree those three movies done by Ocean are pretty great.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

I may be a pure Japanese-FUNimation Canadian rep, the Canadian opening seriously kills me in three series on YTV, but DBZ scripts are too superior with FUNimations. DB/DBGT do not have the accurate FUNimation scripts. The alternate Englidh dub like Mike said, is also for Canada thanks to that CanCon. The Westwood dubs of the DB anime trilogy are "Canadian content" due to actors being recorded in Calgary and Vancouver. It's all ABs idea and YTVs, they ended up airing 168 since and Westwood did air GT without using the GT logo FUNimation made.

Since there are no Westwood DVDs released in Canada, it's safe to say FUNimation now holds the rights of all DB DVD properties in Canada including the Z Kai sets. It also applies to Viz manga and other merchandising.

[OutlawTorn]

Personally, I'm not interested in any pissing match over which is better, because it's just like trying to convince sub fans that the dub is the superior product. It just isn't going to happen.

Honestly, there are bits of the Westwood dub I prefer over the FUNimation dub just as there are bits of the FUNimation dub I find superior. (I loathed the opening theme we were subjected to, so much so I had to mute the TV every time it started playing) Take those components, mix them together and add in the original score from the Japanese version for a dub I would certainly appreciate.

Having heard the (revised) FUNimation dub in its entirety with the season sets due to YTV airing the Westwood dub from... I want to say "Gohan's Desperate Plea," I have a greater appreciation for the FUNimation dub and any "Ocean" preference shouldn't be seen as a slight to the FUNimation product.

For example, none of the English narrators hold a candle to Doc Harris and the FUNimation voice for 16 is vastly superior to Scott McNeil's incarnation. At the beginning, I would have instantly favoured Brian Drummond over Chris Sabat as Vegeta, but I find I like them both now. I also don't care if it is considered "lazy" but I actually preferred the recycled music of the Westwood dub from the Faulconer score which was so damned distracting, changing styles (often wildly) depending on who was the focus of a particular shot. One line could have Vegeta with his theme playing, then cutting to Mr. Satan and a completely different song just cuts in and then goes back to Vegeta. I'd definitely choose the Kikuchi score over either of them, though.

In terms of quality, as has been mentioned the Westwood dub was rushed and I would imagine that FUNimation had greater resources to put into their production, so who knows how it could have turned out with more time and money and had consistent directors.

[songohan619]

I think that the Ocean dub is overrated, just as the FUNimation original dub is overrated.

The script on both dubs are horrible, and i do not think (and I`m going to get flamed by this) that the acting in the Ocean dub is much better than the FUNi dub.

And yes, i know it is not called "Ocean dub" and "FUNI dub", since they were both done by FUNimation, but I`m just saying it the way i do to be absolutely clear.

[Piccolo Daimao]

There is no real hype for the "Ocean dub". Perhaps you're mistaking it with eagerness for an Ocean Kai dub, as many people saw the sliver of potential in the old dub and are curious to see what improvements they could make, like what FUNimation have done.

[eledoremassis02]

There is no real hype for the "Ocean dub". Perhaps you're mistaking it with eagerness for an Ocean Kai dub, as many people saw the sliver of potential in the old dub and are curious to see what improvements they could make, like what FUNimation have done.

Well put

[TheBlackPaladin]

There's a website called "Behind The Voice Actors" (although it focuses primarily on English voice actors), and they have comparison pages for shows with multiple casts. At the top of the comparison page for DBZ, it opens with, "Never ask a DBZ fan which dub they prefer." I laughed when I read that...because it is so true. I think it can be discussed pretty maturely here at Kanzenshuu, but bring it up anywhere else, and pretty brutal cyber-fights (usually) break out.

[Attitudefan]

Considering that Ocean is just the collective name of the voice cast, it's unfair to fault them for line changes or music choice. That would be like blaming Sean Schemmel for "I am the hope of the universe" when he just got paid to say it, not write it. It's FUNimation who's just as responsible for "brilliant scientist" as "ally to good."

I think what penguintruth is really trying to say that the dub writing was at some of it's wildest and most botched in the early days with the Ocean cast.

That's not Ocean's fault. It was whoever produced/wrote the script! I hate when people hark on that and use it as a way to say that it was the actors faults!

IT WAS FUNIMATION!

[AgitoZ]

That's not Ocean's fault. It was whoever produced/wrote the script! I hate when people hark on that and use it as a way to say that it was the actors faults!

IT WAS FUNIMATION!

But this thread is about the Ocean dub not the Ocean actors, the quality of the writing is a legitimate complaint.

[Attitudefan]

However, there's no true Ocean Dub. I think it's unfair to criticize actors based on something they didn't do. Yes, it hurts the overall product. It does not mean the actors themselves are bad. They worked really well with a terrible script. It was watchable. Only good actors can make garbage turn into something a bit better and still be enjoyed generations later.

[Metalwario64]

Considering that Ocean is just the collective name of the voice cast, it's unfair to fault them for line changes or music choice. That would be like blaming Sean Schemmel for "I am the hope of the universe" when he just got paid to say it, not write it. It's FUNimation who's just as responsible for "brilliant scientist" as "ally to good."

I think what penguintruth is really trying to say that the dub writing was at some of it's wildest and most botched in the early days with the Ocean cast.

That's not Ocean's fault. It was whoever produced/wrote the script! I hate when people hark on that and use it as a way to say that it was the actors faults!

IT WAS FUNIMATION!

...Again, who is saying the actors write the scripts? When penguintruth (and I believe most anyone else) referred to the Ocean dub, they were clearly talking about the dub(s) produced using Ocean's acting talent, rather than saying "the dub that Ocean produced themselves and controlled every aspect of".

[Attitudefan]

But using that terminology confuses newbies and children. It isn't correct. It's like saying the Czech's were Austrian just because they lived under their empire. It isn't fair and creates wrongly placed accusations.

When we talk about dubs we should really be talking about directors (like we do with movies). The Japanese dub was better because of the directors taking it seriously. It's the directors fault in the latter half of Ocean DBZ. In Kai, the reason the acting and voices are so great is due to the directors.

[AgitoZ]

When we talk about dubs we should really be talking about directors (like we do with movies). The Japanese dub was better because of the directors taking it seriously. It's the directors fault in the latter half of Ocean DBZ. In Kai, the reason the acting and voices are so great is due to the directors.

No and no to both of those suggestions.

If you're going to compare the dubbing process to a movie then you really should be talking about writing. When talking about a movie overall you don't talk about it's direction only. As this leaves out a number of elements that are essential in a good movie, likewise for a dub. If we were talking about direction only in a movie or in this case the acting in a dub it would be fine. But we aren't and it isn't.

Speaking of that there are numerous reasons why the original Japanese Z and Kai English dub are good. Yes, the directors played a significant part, but they aren't the only factor in their greatness. Another would be a decent script.

[RazorX]

That's not Ocean's fault. It was whoever produced/wrote the script! I hate when people hark on that and use it as a way to say that it was the actors faults!

IT WAS FUNIMATION!

But this thread is about the Ocean dub not the Ocean actors, the quality of the writing is a legitimate complaint.

That is not a legitimate complaint if it is directed at Ocean or if Ocean are being blamed for the writing.

It's been made clear time and time again that the first 53 episodes voiced by Ocean were overseen by Funimation and were produced by Funimation. The writing was overseen by Funimation and it's Funimation who are responsible for the inaccuracies in the writing for the first 53 episodes.

Ocean had more control over the writing in their later dub of DBZ episodes 108-276 as well as the accurate scripts in the Blue Water dubs of Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball.

DBZ episodes 1-53 and 108-276 were dubbed by the same voice cast with involvement from the same dubbing studio, but the contractors for both dubs were completely different.

...Again, who is saying the actors write the scripts? When penguintruth (and I believe most anyone else) referred to the Ocean dub, they were clearly talking about the dub(s) produced using Ocean's acting talent, rather than saying "the dub that Ocean produced themselves and controlled every aspect of".

But the blame appeared to be put on Ocean, which shouldn't be the case for episodes 1-53.

[RazorX]

That's not Ocean's fault. It was whoever produced/wrote the script! I hate when people hark on that and use it as a way to say that it was the actors faults!

IT WAS FUNIMATION!

But this thread is about the Ocean dub not the Ocean actors, the quality of the writing is a legitimate complaint.

That is not a legitimate complaint if it is directed at Ocean or if Ocean are being blamed for the writing.

It's been made clear time and time again that the first 53 episodes voiced by Ocean were overseen by Funimation and were produced by Funimation. The writing was overseen by Funimation and it's Funimation who are responsible for the inaccuracies in the writing for the first 53 episodes.

Ocean had more control over the writing in their later dub of DBZ episodes 108-276 as well as the accurate scripts in the Blue Water dubs of Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball.

DBZ episodes 1-53 and 108-276 were dubbed by the same voice cast with involvement from the same dubbing studio, but the contractors for both dubs were completely different.

...Again, who is saying the actors write the scripts? When penguintruth (and I believe most anyone else) referred to the Ocean dub, they were clearly talking about the dub(s) produced using Ocean's acting talent, rather than saying "the dub that Ocean produced themselves and controlled every aspect of".

But the blame appeared to be put on Ocean, which shouldn't be the case for episodes 1-53.

[Metalwario64]

That is not a legitimate complaint if it is directed at Ocean or if Ocean are being blamed for the writing.

It's been made clear time and time again that the first 53 episodes voiced by Ocean were overseen by Funimation and were produced by Funimation. The writing was overseen by Funimation and it's Funimation who are responsible for the inaccuracies in the writing for the first 53 episodes.

When people say "Ocean dub", they're clearly referring to the dubs produced using Ocean's talent (though they should specify which one). I've never once seen anyone misinterpret it as "Ocean's dub that they produced and are solely responsible for everything wrong with", except perhaps uninformed YouTube comments, but they're pretty much irrelevant to anything as a basis for information, so it's not even worth mentioning.

Otherwise, I've never seen anyone blame Ocean for the issues with the dubs, yet I frequently see people jump to the "defense" of Ocean, who state that everyone is "attacking" them and placing inappropriate blame on them, when that's not the case at all.

[RazorX]

That is not a legitimate complaint if it is directed at Ocean or if Ocean are being blamed for the writing.

It's been made clear time and time again that the first 53 episodes voiced by Ocean were overseen by Funimation and were produced by Funimation. The writing was overseen by Funimation and it's Funimation who are responsible for the inaccuracies in the writing for the first 53 episodes.

When people say "Ocean dub", they're clearly referring to the dubs produced using Ocean's talent (though they should specify which one). I've never once seen anyone misinterpret it as "Ocean's dub that they produced and are solely responsible for everything wrong with", except perhaps uninformed YouTube comments, but they're pretty much irrelevant to anything as a basis for information, so it's not even worth mentioning.

Otherwise, I've never seen anyone blame Ocean for the issues with the dubs, yet I frequently see people jump to the "defense" of Ocean, who state that everyone is "attacking" them and placing inappropriate blame on them, when that's not the case at all.

Oh certainly some youtube comments are notorious for inaccuracies when it comes to the production of the dubs.

When talking about the dubs in general, the issue doesn't come up when referring to DBZ episodes 1-53 as the Ocean dub, but when it comes to critiquing the dub, it's a good idea to ensure the poster(s) are aware of who was behind the production and overseeing of the dub(s). The impression given on this thread initially was that Ocean were being blamed for the quality of the writing, so thats why clarifications started to come through.

[Attitudefan]

When we talk about dubs we should really be talking about directors (like we do with movies). The Japanese dub was better because of the directors taking it seriously. It's the directors fault in the latter half of Ocean DBZ. In Kai, the reason the acting and voices are so great is due to the directors.

No and no to both of those suggestions.

If you're going to compare the dubbing process to a movie then you really should be talking about writing. When talking about a movie overall you don't talk about it's direction only. As this leaves out a number of elements that are essential in a good movie, likewise for a dub. If we were talking about direction only in a movie or in this case the acting in a dub it would be fine. But we aren't and it isn't.

Speaking of that there are numerous reasons why the original Japanese Z and Kai English dub are good. Yes, the directors played a significant part, but they aren't the only factor in their greatness. Another would be a decent script.

But a good director can make poor writing look decent. It's all part of the process to make something good. Directors have a major influence over any production, especially acting.

Look, it was FUNi's fault for the piss poor scripts and edits yet we still complain about the voice actors for some reason. The actors did the best they could with what they were given.

[Kurillin-Sama]

Ocean had more control over the writing in their later dub of DBZ episodes 108-276 as well as the accurate scripts in the Blue Water dubs of Dragon Ball GT and Dragon Ball.

I just saw the Blue Water DB dub recently, and it's actually surprising how inaccurate it was. And in some cases they lifted lines straight from FUNimation's script word for word.

[NitroEX]

Over hyped? I don't think the Westwood/AB Group dubs of DBZ are hyped at all. In fact I'de say they get a lot of hate. The problem is you have so many people who obviously grew up watching Funimation's dub and have a nostalgic attachment to those voices. Anything that isn't familiar to them instantly get's hated on, case in point, look the replacement voice actors in Funimation's Kai dub and how much hate they got. Or the fact that so many people say that they like the Ocean voices for the first 53 episodes yet anything they did after that "doesn't sound right". It's just the nostalgia talking.