The wish to restore those who were killed by Cell

[Hitiro]

But like I said, Goku flat out says that Kaio could have been revived by the wish, but chose not to be. And I'm pretty sure the wish was to restore everyone killed by Cell, not just those on Earth.

The wish they made was to bring back everyone Cell killed, but like I said the intent when he went to blow himself up was to kill everyone on earth. Goku changed that when he teleported Cell to King Kai's planet, so it was Goku who inadvertently killed King Kai and Bubbles as well as commiting suicide. King Kai could have been brought back if they included that in the wish but as you said he chose not to be. So the wish to restore everyone killed by Cell wouldn't work because Cell didn't intentionally kill King Kai and Bubbles. With some additional words they could have brought back Goku, King Kai and Bubbles but they kept the wish simple and left them out.

[Bussani]

So, you mean that when Goku said, "Kaio could have been brought back with the wish just now," he meant, "If we'd asked for the wish to be changed a bit, he could have come back"? I suppose that would be a possible interpretation. That said, I'm not sure I agree with your logic. I don't think you can claim that Cell didn't kill Kaio. Maybe he didn't mean to, but not meaning to kill someone doesn't mean you didn't do it. If you accidentally shoot someone and they die, you still killed them, right?

[Hitiro]

So, you mean that when Goku said, "Kaio could have been brought back with the wish just now," he meant, "If we'd asked for the wish to be changed a bit, he could have come back"? I suppose that would be a possible interpretation. That said, I'm not sure I agree with your logic. I don't think you can claim that Cell didn't kill Kaio. Maybe he didn't mean to, but not meaning to kill someone doesn't mean you didn't do it. If you accidentally shoot someone and they die, you still killed them, right?

So if you take a knife to your wrist and try killing yourself then it was the knife that killed you? Not yourself for committing suicide? And by equal definition if someone tried to kill you and you pushed them down some stairs but they landed on some unsuspecting passer-by who was killed by your action of pushing the person down the stairs. Who is the one who killed that passer-by? Was it you who killed them by pushing the person down the stairs? Or was it the person who was attempting to kill you but accidentally ended up killing the other person? Or is it both your fault and his/her? Goku intentionally sacrificed his life to protect the earth, surely this is an act of suicide, as per the description of suicide is "1. The act or an instance of intentionally killing oneself." And as to the description of what Cells role was in the killing of Kaio and Bubbles it would be involuntary manslaughter or an unintentional killing where it was not Cells intent to just kill Goku, Kaio and Bubbles but actually everyone on earth.

[012yArthur0]

So, you mean that when Goku said, "Kaio could have been brought back with the wish just now," he meant, "If we'd asked for the wish to be changed a bit, he could have come back"? I suppose that would be a possible interpretation. That said, I'm not sure I agree with your logic. I don't think you can claim that Cell didn't kill Kaio. Maybe he didn't mean to, but not meaning to kill someone doesn't mean you didn't do it. If you accidentally shoot someone and they die, you still killed them, right?

So if you take a knife to your wrist and try killing yourself then it was the knife that killed you? Not yourself for committing suicide? And by equal definition if someone tried to kill you and you pushed them down some stairs but they landed on some unsuspecting passer-by who was killed by your action of pushing the person down the stairs. Who is the one who killed that passer-by? Was it you who killed them by pushing the person down the stairs? Or was it the person who was attempting to kill you but accidentally ended up killing the other person? Or is it both your fault and his/her? Goku intentionally sacrificed his life to protect the earth, surely this is an act of suicide, as per the description of suicide is "1. The act or an instance of intentionally killing oneself." And as to the description of what Cells role was in the killing of Kaio and Bubbles it would be involuntary manslaughter or an unintentional killing where it was not Cells intent to just kill Goku, Kaio and Bubbles but actually everyone on earth.

The objects must be punished!

But well, I agree with you.

[Bussani]

So if you take a knife to your wrist and try killing yourself then it was the knife that killed you? Not yourself for committing suicide?

I'd say it's both. It's the same as saying, "He was killed by a landmine," rather than, "He was killed by a landmine layer who left a landmine there for him to step on." If you wished for anyone killed by that particular landmine to be returned to life, that guy should be covered, right? And by Dragon Ball's logic, of course, I'm sure wishing for those killed by the actions of the landmine layer to be restored would also work.

And by equal definition if someone tried to kill you and you pushed them down some stairs but they landed on some unsuspecting passer-by who was killed by your action of pushing the person down the stairs. Who is the one who killed that passer-by? Was it you who killed them by pushing the person down the stairs? Or was it the person who was attempting to kill you but accidentally ended up killing the other person?

I'll admit, examples like that can make the answers a lot less black and white, but I don't think you can argue that someone who tries to kill one person and then accidentally kills another didn't, by definition, kill that person. Legal terms like manslaughter don't factor into it. Hell, even the definition of manslaughter is "the killing of a human being, in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder."

[Hitiro]

I'll admit, examples like that can make the answers a lot less black and white, but I don't think you can argue that someone who tries to kill one person and then accidentally kills another didn't, by definition, kill that person. Legal terms like manslaughter don't factor into it. Hell, even the definition of manslaughter is "the killing of a human being, in a manner considered by law as less culpable than murder."

But we really can, there is a perfect example of the way the dragonballs directly effect such things. If we go back to the Frieza arc where the wish on the Earth dragonballs was "Restore the life of all the people killed by Frieza and his henchmen" this wish had two side-effects, 1. Everyone was brought back including Guru as Frieza killed him prematurely by killing his people. And 2. The people that Vegeta killed weren't included because his intent was opposing Frieza and thus he wasn't a member of Frieza's henchmen anymore.

One can argue that in this case it was Goku's fault for Kaio and Bubbles dying and like I said Goku intentionally killed himself so that was him performing suicide. This would strike Goku, Kaio and Bubbles from being included in a wish to bring back all the people Cell killed because their deaths by Cell were the result of Goku's actions. Had Goku not teleported him to Kaio's planet and Cell made it his intention to kill them (If he could find a way to get to their planet) then it would be a different story. But Cell lacked the intent to kill Kaio and Bubbles and was forced to by Goku's actions. We also see that not constructing a well worded wish can also result in absences in what the person wishing wanted. A prime example of this is also back on Namek when they resurrected Piccolo and brought him to Namek. Because they didn't specify the location on Namek he should be brought to Porunga just dumped him on Namek randomly. So the wording of the wish is a fundamental factor in getting what you desire, as well as the side-effects and implications the wording may have on the wish.

[Bussani]

One can argue that in this case it was Goku's fault for Kaio and Bubbles dying and like I said Goku intentionally killed himself so that was him performing suicide. This would strike Goku, Kaio and Bubbles from being included in a wish to bring back all the people Cell killed because their deaths by Cell were the result of Goku's actions.

I agree with the first sentence, but not the second. I'm not saying one can't argue that it was Goku's fault, or even that wishing for anyone who died because of Goku to be restored wouldn't restore Kaio and Bubbles, but I don't see how any of that means that Cell didn't kill them. In fact, you said he did yourself:

But Cell lacked the intent to kill Kaio and Bubbles and was forced to by Goku's actions.

I.e. he killed them without intending to.

[Darkprince410]

Even though it wasn't Cell's intention to blow up there on Kaiou's planet, in the end it is still his action that is causing Goku, Kaiou, and Bubbles to be killed. Goku could be added as being an enabler, but his actions don't immediately take Cell off the hook as far as being the one that still killed them. We've seen prior to them trying to revive everyone killed by Cell that the eternal dragons cannot grant wishes if it violates the free-will of the person it'd be affecting. For example, Porunga, a far more powerful dragon in terms of the wishes it could make, couldn't bring Goku to Earth because Goku didn't want to be wished to Earth. In the same vein, because North Kaiou wanted to stay with Goku in the afterlife, and him being dead wouldn't really alter anything apart from the fact he has a halo, he just chose not to accept Shenron's wish to revive those killed by Cell (which would encompass him).