DBZ Kai "part 1" (eps 1 - 54) is out in France

[songohan619]

How about the playback speed? Is it 4% sped up?

Probably, as almost every PAL release of something NTSC is sped up...

[Puto]

I think he means scene bleeds. And given how finicky DVD timing can be, it is kind of impressive if a professional release has scene timing.

[Cold Skin]

Avoiding overlaps is a basic thing to do, though... (I do subtitles in my spare time)...

It's one of the professionnal rules, one of many that are not always followed even in official products by professionnals, and especially not in fansubs.
Much like the number of letters per line, avoiding repetitions and hesitations if the language is natural enough to the viewer so that he will naturally recognize them by ear, putting translation of any written element all in capital letters, etc...
Had to study it all pretty hard for my translation master and my freaking "memoire", and there are a lot more things to consider than what most people may think to maximize the viewing pleasure!

The difference may seem subtle, even an unnecessary detail, but actually when watching such well-timed subtitles that don't overlap from a close-up to a landscape view, I don't know, the impact is immediate: it just looks like "a clean job", it instantly is more pleasant to watch for unknown reasons, it's... "cleaner", refined.

How about the playback speed? Is it 4% sped up?

Probably, as almost every PAL release of something NTSC is sped up...

There's a good chance it is.
While I couldn't detect any kind of sped up scene during the episodes - the difference being probably too subtle - it is, on the contrary, very noticeable during the menu, opening and ending.

Although the songs are faster, the tone is not altered (as opposed to many songs playing in French dubs, where the tone and voice get higher-pitched due to the speeding-up process).
The difference is unnoticeable during the episodes themselves, there's not the slightest feel of accelerated image or audio.

[Puto]

I think we're seeing a terminology conflict here.

Typically, what people consider an ‘overlap’ is when subtitles bleed into each other -- i.e. line 2 appears before line 1 disappears. This typically never happens in either professional subtitles or decent fansubs, and it's incredibly distracting.

What I think you're talking about is ‘scene bleeds’, when a line bleeds into the next scene. Most professional subtitles and some fansubs don't tend to bother with this, though it's become more and more common in fansubs thanks mainly to aegisub.

[Cold Skin]

I think we're seeing a terminology conflict here.

Typically, what people consider an ‘overlap’ is when subtitles bleed into each other -- i.e. line 2 appears before line 1 disappears. This typically never happens in either professional subtitles or decent fansubs, and it's incredibly distracting.

What I think you're talking about is ‘scene bleeds’, when a line bleeds into the next scene. Most professional subtitles and some fansubs don't tend to bother with this, though it's become more and more common in fansubs thanks mainly to aegisub.

Then you're right, I did use the wrong term.
It is indeed 'scene bleeds' I was refering to.

It's the word 'scene' that got me a little confused, since a 'scene' makes me think of a whole moment (Goku and Piccolo talking about Raditz in the sky would be a scene, then Raditz talking about his scouter would be another scene). Whereas I was refering to just a cut to another camera angle, and didn't know 'scene bleeds' would apply to that.

But yes, it is what I meant then: they took special care to avoid any 'scene bleed' in the subtitles, and that's something that might seem like a detail, but it actually really makes the subtitles nicer.

When creating subtitles for fun, I used to be unable to see any interest in obeying such a rule, not seeing what it would really bring and how subtitles bleeding into the next shot would bother anyone, since I had seen subtitles bleeding for years on DVD and it was perfectly okay.
But after having experienced it in some movies and with this package, I have to say that - for some reason - it does have a real positive impact that should not be underestimated.

[sangofe]

I think we're seeing a terminology conflict here.

Typically, what people consider an ‘overlap’ is when subtitles bleed into each other -- i.e. line 2 appears before line 1 disappears. This typically never happens in either professional subtitles or decent fansubs, and it's incredibly distracting.

What I think you're talking about is ‘scene bleeds’, when a line bleeds into the next scene. Most professional subtitles and some fansubs don't tend to bother with this, though it's become more and more common in fansubs thanks mainly to aegisub.

Then you're right, I did use the wrong term.
It is indeed 'scene bleeds' I was refering to.

It's the word 'scene' that got me a little confused, since a 'scene' makes me think of a whole moment (Goku and Piccolo talking about Raditz in the sky would be a scene, then Raditz talking about his scouter would be another scene). Whereas I was refering to just a cut to another camera angle, and didn't know 'scene bleeds' would apply to that.

But yes, it is what I meant then: they took special care to avoid any 'scene bleed' in the subtitles, and that's something that might seem like a detail, but it actually really makes the subtitles nicer.

When creating subtitles for fun, I used to be unable to see any interest in obeying such a rule, not seeing what it would really bring and how subtitles bleeding into the next shot would bother anyone, since I had seen subtitles bleeding for years on DVD and it was perfectly okay.
But after having experienced it in some movies and with this package, I have to say that - for some reason - it does have a real positive impact that should not be underestimated.

I have time for several years and yeah, I hate scene bleeds. So they went that far with their subs, huh? Wow, impressive.

[Cold Skin]

Now that I've reached disc 2, I've updated the review with minor information.

While the quality is still the same and the subtitles are - more undoubtedly than ever - the most amazing translation I've ever seen anime-wise, I noticed two minor flaws, which won't spoil the quality of the product but I should signal them anyway for the sake of completeness:

- The menu transition was apparently kept the same from one disc to the other, which means Raditz will pop up again for a second when going to the "Versions" menu, regardless of the fact that Chaozu is depicted on the current disc. They likely thought "since it's the same landscape, it'll work" but forgot that the character did appear for that specific transition. I don't know if it's the same for all discs or not right now, but there's a good chance it is. More funny than annoying, really.

- The unskipable long-version logo for the ABGroup will appear just like for the movies package if you don't go back to the menu manually before the end of the sixth - and therefore last - episode of a disc, whereas the disc pops you back to the "episode selection" menu instantly for all other five episodes.
I have to wonder what's the point of forcing you to see lasers circling around each other for 30 seconds before actually writing AB Video on the screen. I would understand more if they tried to brainwash you buy forcing you to see "AB Video" for 30 seconds, like "take a goooood look at who are the amazing guys giving you this". But no, it's actually the "laser dance" they want to insist on...
Anyway, it's no big deal since you only have to be careful with this once you reach the very end of a disc, so it's not much of an annoyance since most episodes will pop you back to the selection, except 9 of them, and you know which ones they are when you reach them.

[Puto]

How about the playback speed? Is it 4% sped up?

Probably, as almost every PAL release of something NTSC is sped up...

Kai was sped up on TV with pitch correction, so it's probably sped up on the DVD too. That said, most PAL anime releases nowadays tend to be telecined instead of sped up. I actually prefer it if they're sped up, as it means they don't have to butcher the video over it.

[Cold Skin]

Still more updates as I'm going through episodes!

It appears that as far as subtitles go, insults and profanities are not as restricted as the first episodes may have hinted!
Also sometimes they keep it polite, it actually depends on the situation, cause there are several instances where French expression "eh merde", "crétin", "salopard" or "enfoiré" show up. In English, those words would be "shit", "jackass" and "bastard".

Exemples of such situations include:
- When Vegeta tells Krilin to "remove that trash" (Yamcha), Krilin turns around and says "You bastard!"
- Goku arriving and having realized all those who died says "Shit..." (for "Kuso..." in Japanese).
- When Nappa loses his nerves against Goku, Vegeta yells at him to calm down, calling him a jackass.

[sangofe]

Still more updates as I'm going through episodes!

It appears that as far as subtitles go, insults and profanities are not as restricted as the first episodes may have hinted!
Also sometimes they keep it polite, it actually depends on the situation, cause there are several instances where French expression "eh merde", "crétin", "salopard" or "enfoiré" show up. In English, those words would be "shit", "jackass" and "bastard".

Exemples of such situations include:
- When Vegeta tells Krilin to "remove that trash" (Yamcha), Krilin turns around and says "You bastard!"
- Goku arriving and having realized all those who died says "Shit..." (for "Kuso..." in Japanese).
- When Nappa loses his nerves against Goku, Vegeta yells at him to calm down, calling him a jackass.

Good. Too bad this is not a bluray set or else i'd be all over it!

[Cold Skin]

Good. Too bad this is not a bluray set or else i'd be all over it!

Well, since ABGroup has clearly stated that they were not planning on releasing any Blu-ray as far as I know, I would still advice you to get it, it's what you'll get best in French, it's a real rediscovery thanks to the astonishing subtitled translation, it even made my heart pound a little with happiness sometimes and I'm eager to see more everyday, it's really incredible.
I'm really grateful for the great work they did for that release, I didn't expect such professionalism, and hope the Cell era will come soon (it is unannounced yet, which has me worried a little, but such carefully-timed and carefully-translated subtitles might take time when it's on 50 episodes).
And the image quality is very clean despite not being HD.

However, I'll understand if you don't want to get it for that one reason, since not buying a product because it lacks the main reason you'd like to buy it... let's say it makes sense!
After all, it's what I did with Raging Blast 2, it lacked the story mode - which is the main reason I buy a Dragon Ball game - and unfortunately this alone made that all other good points, no matter how great they were, could not catch up for this and were not enough for me to buy it.
So I'm really not in any position to blame you if you don't feel like buying it!

[dbboxkaifan]

And the image quality is very clean despite not being HD.

Regardless of the source, DBZ Kai tends to look very good but only for the early arcs which are Saiyan to Friеza because after these, you'll find out yourself.

Raging Blast 2, it lacked the story mode

DBZ story modes on video games tend to get worse and worse each time, RB1 was okay, UT a little better than RB1's and DBZFK was a really shortened version of UT's story without animated cutscenes or anything.

Namco Bandai knows that they have to move on to something else than the typical average story mode.

Story Modes..
DB = Advanced Adventure
DBZ = Budokai, Burst Limit
DBGT = Transformation
DBK = Ultimate Butoden

By the way, funny how Dragon Ball games in Japan are CERO A and in the western it's "PEGI 12" (Europe) and "ESRB - Teen" (US). Kids games in Japan are for 12 year olds and up in the western countries.

[Cold Skin]

DBZ story modes on video games tend to get worse and worse each time, RB1 was okay, UT a little better than RB1's and DBZFK was a really shortened version of UT's story without animated cutscenes or anything.

Namco Bandai knows that they have to move on to something else than the typical average story mode.

Story Modes..
DB = Advanced Adventure
DBZ = Budokai, Burst Limit
DBGT = Transformation
DBK = Ultimate Butoden

I'd like a real revolution for that. If games like Final Fantasy can easily tell of a story that lasts for dozens of hours with various, quite huge environments, then Dragon Ball should be able to do this too. I mean, Naruto Shippuden did a pretty good job with it in Storm Generations 2.
So I'd really like a story mode which could easily be described as "the biggest and most compelling story mode ever", as I said, kind of a revolutionnary story mode that would make everyone say "man, I never imagined we could get such a story mode for Dragon Ball one day, it feels like a whole game in itself, and a great one".

The idea of Burst Limit was good, pushing the depiction of scenes from Budokai 1 even further in details and with impressive graphics that took the risk of reinventing part of the design of characters and environments. It felt really exciting at first. But unfortunately, it happened that less than 10 cutscenes in the whole game were "real" cutscenes like Budokai 1, all other instances being predetermined stances and fight choregraphies that were nowhere near a detailed rendition of the original scenes.

By the way, funny how Dragon Ball games in Japan are CERO A and in the western it's "PEGI 12" (Europe) and "ESRB - Teen" (US). Kids games in Japan are for 12 year olds and up in the western countries.

It's like that for the anime too: Kai is aired as-is in Japan, but to be aired on kids channels in western countries, it needs extra censorship, proving that what may be acceptable in Japan for kids is actually only acceptable for teenagers and more in our western society.

Likewise, in France, Dragon Ball Z or One Piece episodes air uncensored nowadays, but with a label on the screen saying that any viewer for this program should be 10 years old or more.

This contrast can seem weird sometimes to viewers that are not used to it: serious situations possibly meant for teens and more - involving suffering, blood coming from this inside and others - will clash with childish moments like everyone having a never-ending laughter together at the end of a movie.
To them, they're watching a quite serious show meant for teens at the minimum, and suddenly see a very childish ending that feels very "cartoon": due to the standards not being the same between us and Japan, they just think it's meant for teens and are surprised by anything childish, not realizing that this is a show indeed meant for kids, it's just that in its original country, it is considered kids can see much more than "our kids".

[Puto]

Got my copy of this today. Something worth noting: The lyrics to the ‘Tokusentai’ insert song are hardsubbed.

[Cold Skin]

Got my copy of this today. Something worth noting: The lyrics to the ‘Tokusentai’ insert song are hardsubbed.

Yep, I guess they thought translating the songs was unnecessary most of the time, but for that one, the official French version thought it was relevant for everybody to know what the song is about. So it's mendatory subs necessary for comprehension, like the word on Bulma's door or the "Tenkaichi Budokai" inscription.

I think understanding the lyrics is deemed important for the comical aspect of their grand entrance, like not only do they have a well-prepared choregraphy, but it's like they even go as far as having their own theme song for it.

[sangofe]

I love my Kai box now

[Cold Skin]

Wow, a package signed by Mr. Vegeta himself!
I like the "Final Flash from Vegeta!" part.

Ah, I hope he'll be back for the Boo saga, as well as the rest of the cast (Mr. Satan will be the hardest one to have around, but it should be possible)!

[songohan619]

I love my Kai box now

In what dub did he play Vegeta?

[Puto]

French.

[songohan619]

French.

But why did he write in Swedish?