Tenshinhan's absence at the 25th TB

[smiley]

Why did he refuse to show up? The translation I am reading says that he told them that he "won't see them again". Was he mad with them for some reason or what?

[Insertclevername]

He didn't resent them, he just respectfully went his own way.

[Titan]

Because, Toriyama wanted him out of the Z team.
Plus, he never refused to show up, simply, the excuse was that Gohan could not find him,
when in fact, Dende could locate everyone easily.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Tenshinhan was never told about the 25th TB, because no-one apparently knew where he was.

[Marker]

Which isn't too hard to believe. Gohan didn't really know Tenshinhan much at all. I like to imagine that if Goku were alive he'd have used his Instantaneous Movement technique to locate him and give him an invite.

[Saiga]

Tenshinhan only really hung out with the Z Fighters when there was a crisis going on. It's no surprise he didn't show up at the 25th when he had no chance of winning.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Yeah, Tenshinhan's not really a sociable person. Still, though, if Gohan or someone else were able to locate him, I don't doubt that he'd pop in to the 25th TB at least for a brief period of time, to see his friend and former rival that he hasn't seen in seven years, and as far as he or anyone else knows, this would be the only chance he'd ever get to see him again.

[InfernalVegito]

Tenshinhan only really hung out with the Z Fighters when there was a crisis going on. It's no surprise he didn't show up at the 25th when he had no chance of winning.

I think that's a good reason considering when he saw Son Goku transform against #19 in person he was amazed and overwhelmed at his powers, he basically gave up trying to compete with him and the others who were as strong.

[Nazi Cola]

You could also use the out-of-universe extreme fanboy reasoning that AT didn't want Tenshinhan at the tourney (and subsequent spaceship sequence) because he was too strong and would've ended the story abruptly with his presence.

[Presto88]

Tenshinhan only really hung out with the Z Fighters when there was a crisis going on. It's no surprise he didn't show up at the 25th when he had no chance of winning.

I think that's a good reason considering when he saw Son Goku transform against #19 in person he was amazed and overwhelmed at his powers, he basically gave up trying to compete with him and the others who were as strong.

Kinda funny considering the fact that at the time he possessed enough power to blow Goku to pieces....just saying.

[Saiga]

Kinda funny considering the fact that at the time he possessed enough power to blow Goku to pieces....just saying.

Yeah, no. If he actually did, he would have done it against the Androids. The Shin Kikoho is so overrated - it pushed Cell back, so what?

[rereboy]

Yeah, the Shin Kikoho would probably just push Goku much further back and actually manage to hurt him somewhat but that would be it.

[Presto88]

Kinda funny considering the fact that at the time he possessed enough power to blow Goku to pieces....just saying.

Yeah, no. If he actually did, he would have done it against the Androids. The Shin Kikoho is so overrated - it pushed Cell back, so what?

Well so alotta a things my friend, I'm not overrating anything, I'm simply basing my opinion on what was shown and dont you think you may be underrating things just a little. Your description of the attack as simply pushing Cell back is a gross understatement of what it actually did which was completely incapacitate Cell, (which means that for whatever period of time he was being fired upon he could not block, dodge or deflect the technique in anyway, he was at its mercy) who lets just say at the time (on the brink of perfection aka achieve his purpose of existing) was desperate not to be completely incapacitated.

Now going by previous standards set in the series when someone is at least marginally more powerful then their opponent they are able to either dodge, deflect or successfully block an attack with relative ease eg. Radditz vs Goku, Nappa vs Gohan, Freeza vs Piccolo etc etc In most of the those cases the recipient was at least 20%-50% more powerful then person performing the attack so not a huge difference but still enough to mangage a complete defence against their opponents techniques. In the case of Cell vs Shin Kikoho Cell was unable to manage any kind of defence and was forced to simply take on the brunt of the attack, so you can make your own judgements from that but I believe it wouldn't even be a stretch to say that the Shin Kikoho was within 10% of Cell's power at the time.

So again, going by previous precedents set in the series, I see no reason why the power Tien was able to generate which was comparable to 2nd form Cell wouldn't be enough to blow pre rosat Goku to pieces. Also saying why didn't he just use it against the androids is really a non augment, the same thing could be said for 1st form Cell and the answer to the question is simple, for story purposes a secondary character wasn't going to be the one to end the Cell/Android well before it was intended to finish.

[Saiga]

Out of universe answers don't cut it, there's no in-story reason for why Tenshinhan wouldn't use that technique if it could actually kill them.

He caught Cell completely off guard with it, not to mention Cell was flying, which makes it harder for him to defend himself.*

Furthermore, he had to repeatedly spam the attack in order to keep Cell pinned. The repeated assaults didn't do any kind of damage to Cell, so it's really quite presumptuous to say it could defeat Goku based on that. The fact that he was in awe of Goku's power and didn't even attempt it against the Androids suggests that it isn't that powerful.

*This is based on how flying made it much harder for Goku to move around in the weights he was wearing.

[Presto88]

Out of universe answers don't cut it, there's no in-story reason for why Tenshinhan wouldn't use that technique if it could actually kill them.

He caught Cell completely off guard with it, not to mention Cell was flying, which makes it harder for him to defend himself.*

Furthermore, he had to repeatedly spam the attack in order to keep Cell pinned. The repeated assaults didn't do any kind of damage to Cell, so it's really quite presumptuous to say it could defeat Goku based on that. The fact that he was in awe of Goku's power and didn't even attempt it against the Androids suggests that it isn't that powerful.

*This is based on how flying made it much harder for Goku to move around in the weights he was wearing.

I'm sorry but sometimes out of universe answers do cut it and if you don't believe that then I invite you to provide definitive answers to some of the more contentious and contradictory points of the Buu saga using only in universe explanations and do so without reigniting debates that haven't already been going on for the better part of a decade.

How you came to the conclusion of me being "presumptuous" has left me puzzled, not only did I provided with you substantial in universe evidence which took into account the actual event as well as precedents set throughout the series, you actually failed to really address any of the evidence that I gave you. Furthermore the augments you provided in response were either completely irrelevant or just flat out didn't happen, either way they have no bearing on this debate. For example you stated Cell was taken by surprise when in fact he wasn't, he noticed Tien before the he had fired the shot, which means the attack did not blindside him as he was already focused on person who was going to use it, if your staring at someone before they throw a punch at you there's no way you can claim that you were blindsided. You say Cell was flying, again during that first attack, no he wasn't, he was standing directly below Tien and was still unable to manage an effective form of defence. You then spoke of him spamming the attack and its lack of damage........so what, it didn't loose its effectiveness and as I stated in my previous post it left Cell completely incapacitated the entire time it was being used and again I will say there are countless examples in the series where we have seen only slightly stronger characters successfully block, dodge or deflect attacks from weaker opponents which was not the case here. Also I don't care for what being in awe of Goku's power "suggests" I'm more interested in what the attack actually achieved, which I have now explained in detail.

So for future reference if you want to ague an opinion by all means go ahead and do so, but don't give half baked responses and completely disregarded competent and valid points. So as to not make you out as a complete fool I'll take the bait and give some weight to your previous statement of me being presumptuous, considering the answers you gave me I'm going to assume one of two things, your either incompetent, or you simply didn't read my first response

[Titan]

Please, let's calm down a little bit, alright. There is no reason to get upset over this or any other subject.
This is just a fictional story.

[Jackal puFF]

He didn't resent them, he just respectfully went his own way.

Yeah, maybe he just didn't feel like going. It happens to the best of us, haha.

[Kaboom]

Please, let's calm down a little bit, alright. There is no reason to get upset over this or any other subject.
This is just a fictional story.

I agree. Rarely is anybody's preferred answer for something in-universe any better than someone else's, so let's not try to develop attitudes, please.

[Insertclevername]

He didn't resent them, he just respectfully went his own way.

Yeah, maybe he just didn't feel like going. It happens to the best of us, haha.

What if he actually found them all really fucking annoying! lol

[dbzfan7]

I just thought Toriyama forgot about Tenshinhan like he did Lunch.