Just a few questions about Super Saiyans

[Saiyan]

1) Why are there so many SSj's in the series? According to Vegeta, there's supposed to be one once every 1000 years. Is it because that..maybe every Saiyajin has the potential to become one, and no one made it as far as Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan (I really don't count Goten and Trunks because they seem to have inherited the SSj "gene")?

2) This question needs to be answered in order for my next question to hold true, I suppose. Goku transformed into SSj3 very quickly to stall for time against Gotenks-Absorbed Buu to help Gohan in the anime. Did Goku ever turn SSj3 in front of Gotenks-Absorbed Buu in the manga?

3) If the previous question holds false, then my next question is: Why does the anime make it seem like turning SSj3 seem like such an easy task?

The manga's transformations show him out of breath after turning SSj3, sweating, and running low on ki. In the anime, the initial transformation looks like there's a struggle, but almost every time after that, there isn't. In the anime, Goku turns SSj3 AGAIN in front of Goten and Trunks right after he returns from fighting Buu, as well as going straight to SSj3 when stalling for time against Gotenks-Absorbed Buu. And within his fight with "True" Buu, he turns SSj3 after fighting for a while in SSj2, and again later on.

[t-bone135]

1) Why are there so many SSj's in the series? According to Vegeta, there's supposed to be one once every 1000 years. Is it because that..maybe every Saiyajin has the potential to become one, and no one made it as far as Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan (I really don't count Goten and Trunks because they seem to have inherited the SSj "gene")?

2) This question needs to be answered in order for my next question to hold true, I suppose. Goku transformed into SSj3 very quickly to stall for time against Gotenks-Absorbed Buu to help Gohan in the anime. Did Goku ever turn SSj3 in front of Gotenks-Absorbed Buu in the manga?

3) If the previous question holds false, then my next question is: Why does the anime make it seem like turning SSj3 seem like such an easy task?

The manga's transformations show him out of breath after turning SSj3, sweating, and running low on ki. In the anime, the initial transformation looks like there's a struggle, but almost every time after that, there isn't. In the anime, Goku turns SSj3 AGAIN in front of Goten and Trunks right after he returns from fighting Buu, as well as going straight to SSj3 when stalling for time against Gotenks-Absorbed Buu. And within his fight with "True" Buu, he turns SSj3 after fighting for a while in SSj2, and again later on.

1) Hard to say for sure, but you might have answered your own question here. It was only a legend, so the fact that more then one appeared in the same 1,000 year period must mean that it can happen to all Saiyajin. But I suppose that Brolly could be the real Legendary SSj, seeing as he's the only one with his level of power. However, I know that's not canon so I'll drop it.

2) Someone else will need to tackle this one, as I don't have the manga, (I would really like to get it someday though.)

3) But I will say that once a level of SSj is reached, it's supposed to be really easy to switch back and forth between them. But then again, during the Buu fight in the anime, he kept stepping up to it, so it's hard for me to say sure.

[Duo]

1) Why are there so many SSj's in the series? According to Vegeta, there's supposed to be one once every 1000 years. Is it because that..maybe every Saiyajin has the potential to become one, and no one made it as far as Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan (I really don't count Goten and Trunks because they seem to have inherited the SSj "gene")?

2) This question needs to be answered in order for my next question to hold true, I suppose. Goku transformed into SSj3 very quickly to stall for time against Gotenks-Absorbed Buu to help Gohan in the anime. Did Goku ever turn SSj3 in front of Gotenks-Absorbed Buu in the manga?

3) If the previous question holds false, then my next question is: Why does the anime make it seem like turning SSj3 seem like such an easy task?

The manga's transformations show him out of breath after turning SSj3, sweating, and running low on ki. In the anime, the initial transformation looks like there's a struggle, but almost every time after that, there isn't. In the anime, Goku turns SSj3 AGAIN in front of Goten and Trunks right after he returns from fighting Buu, as well as going straight to SSj3 when stalling for time against Gotenks-Absorbed Buu. And within his fight with "True" Buu, he turns SSj3 after fighting for a while in SSj2, and again later on.

1) But keep in mind that it was just that, a "legend". However, if you want to look at it as that there was a single, actual, "Legendary" Super Saiyan (Manga-wise), then it would be Goku for two reasons: He pioneered it and it is very doubtful anyone else would have achieved it had he not - and the title chapter after he transforms is named "The Legendary Super Saiya'jin".

2) Yes, he did - but he did not fight him. He transformed as Boo came at him, braced for the attack, and then Boo stopped and changed into the Piccolo outfit. Goku then powers down (meaning he was only transformed for a few seconds, tops) and the story goes from there.

But yes, both against that Boo and Chibi Boo, Goku was able to power up to Ssj3 instantly (even in the Manga) so it isn't just Toei on this one. I doubt Toriyama-sensei cared to draw out the two page transformation all 3 times it was used.

3) I can agree that the Anime does kind of downplay the effects of Ssj3 on the body. The initial use of it was greatly fillered-out, the Transformation in front of Goten and Trunks was entirely Filler, the fight with Boo (Gotenks Dominate) was entirely filler, and they allow him to use it tons more against Chibi Boo.

But, despite all these things, I beg the question - why does this surprise you? Toei had to put in Filler in order to stay behind Toriyama-Sensei, and they had an interesting new Ssj State to work with. This is why fillers can't be looked at as anything more than just that - Fillers.

[Bejiita]

I want to say that that legend would have been true after all if Toriyama did infact end the story at the end of the Freeza saga, Goku would have stayed dead, there would have only ever have been one SSJ, him. But he didn't, it went on and as it happens everyone can become a SSJ, and I would have made it that way too.

For number 2, let's bear in mind Goku's ki was at it's max, he hadn't transformed yet before being brought back from the dead, he had a fresh new life to use up. So he could go SSJ3 no sweat for a while at least.

Also, to avoid creating a new topic for this, since Goku's life was given to him by the Old Kai, would it make his life especially longer than usual? Mainly because the Kai had more years of his life left, what being a KaioShin and all, but Goku does retain his youthfullness during the series, even in GT in the last episode.

[Kaboom]

1)
Bejita's hit Nail on the head on this one. DragonBall was supposed to end with Goku as the Legendary Super Saiyan, but due to outside pressure, Toriyama-sensei continued the story, and resulted in, as Vegeta stated. a "bargain sale on Super Saiyans." The resulting "One Legendary Super Saiyan" problem was attampted to be dealt with after that with Broly and, to some degree, Gold Oozaru --> SSj4, but how seriously anyone wants to take or count those is a matter of opinion.

2) and 3)
SSj3. An interesting stage, indeed. It was definitely hard for Goku to reach the first time we see it (against Fat Buu). Goku himself said that he hadn't had as much practice with it as the others, so maybe that had something to do with it. Also, I believe it was said that SSj3 draws on some sort of mystical, otherworldly power, making it hard for a dead Goku to use it while in the realm of the living. If this is so, it would also explain why it wiped him out against Fat Buu, why it was easy after coming back to save Gohan, and then wouldn't work well fighting Chibi Buu on the Kai's Planet.

[Bejiita]

1)
Bejita's hit Nail on the head on this one. DragonBall was supposed to end with Goku as the Legendary Super Saiyan, but due to outside pressure, Toriyama-sensei continued the story, and resulted in, as Vegeta stated. a "bargain sale on Super Saiyans." The resulting "One Legendary Super Saiyan" problem was attampted to be dealt with after that with Broly and, to some degree, Gold Oozaru --> SSj4, but how seriously anyone wants to take or count those is a matter of opinion.

2) and 3)
SSj3. An interesting stage, indeed. It was definitely hard for Goku to reach the first time we see it (against Fat Buu). Goku himself said that he hadn't had as much practice with it as the others, so maybe that had something to do with it. Also, I believe it was said that SSj3 draws on some sort of mystical, otherworldly power, making it hard for a dead Goku to use it while in the realm of the living. If this is so, it would also explain why it wiped him out against Fat Buu, why it was easy after coming back to save Gohan, and then wouldn't work well fighting Chibi Buu on the Kai's Planet.

I'm wouldn't be suprised if people died when Goku turned SSJ3, it was like a worldwide earthquake. Goku being dead as a SSJ3, that was infact the ideal opportunity to get rid of buu for good, Goku could have taken more of a beating being dead and all, but he wants to let the kids 'have a go'.

[Dayspring]

1) If Toriyama ended it on Namek, then Goku WOULD have been the Legendary SSJ.

1b) It was just a legend.

1c) It was later discovered that to go SSJ it only requires a Saiyan to surpass his limits and then experience great rage. How often does a person experience GREAT rage, let a lone a Saiyan? Typical Saiyans always act as if everything is beneath them. Plus it's nearly impossible to surpass your limits. My guess is if Vegeta was furious at himself or Freeza when he fought fourth form Freeza, the way he was angry when he lost to #18, rather than get desperate, then he would have transformed on Namek. Goku only experienced great rage whenever Krillin died. The first time, however, Goku was far from having surpassed his limits.

[HP]

I want to say that that legend would have been true after all if Toriyama did infact end the story at the end of the Freeza saga, Goku would have stayed dead, there would have only ever have been one SSJ, him.

That's very much true. But since DBZ continued after Freeza, that Super-Saiyan legend became very superfluous. Therefore, one can ultimatley consider SSJ4 as The Legendary Saiyan. But that would just be a myth amongst the fans (and it is, indeed).

[Metrite]

According to Vegeta, there's supposed to be one once every 1000 years.

That seems to be a very common mistranslation, I once heard a more accurate translation would be the chances of one becoming a ssj is one out of a thousand. In the DVD sub I saw for that line it was something like, "It's said the capacity to become ssj is in only one out of a thousand." So it seems more like it's just saying it's very unlikely for one to become a ssj. Back then Vegeta didn't even know what a ssj was really like so he probably wouldn't really know things like that, anyway.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

No, he definitely said one comes along every thousand years.

[Pedro The Hutt]

But of course, Son Goku, Vegeta and their sons sure proved that legend wrong. >.>;;

[ItsAllGood]

I remember Vegeta mentioning exactly how long it has been since the last Super Saiyan during the episode "Vegeta's Respect"

And I quote from the Dub - " After three millenia, it has finally happened! A new Super Saiyan has emerged!"

Three millenia? What happened to once every thousand years? Did Frieza or the other ruling body at the time see to it that anyone displaying great potential should be killed during the last two millenia?

And as far as becoming a SSJ being once chance in a thousand, I think they're pretty good odds. I mean, we dont know the population of Planet Vegeta, but if it anything like earth, i.e millions, then there would be a fair few potential SSJ's lying in wait.

As for potential, I think it would have taken the right type of circumstances in order to transform.

Witness Goku. It took the fight of his life against the most powerful being ever to bring out the SSJ potential in him. I would assume that the other "potential SSJ's" would never have had to fight such a powerful opponent, hence they never got their chance to transform.

[ChaotixXero]

Something that I don't like about Goku is...Well lets look at this from Vegeta's point of view. He has been training all his life to become this Legendary Super Saiyan and take revenge for his race. Then comes this low classed random guy to steal his chance at becoming it and etc.

If anyone should be the SSJ it should be Vegeta. Its ok with Goku I guess(after Freeza arc) but Trunks, Gohan and the rest are too much.

[HP]

You can assume Vegeta and Goku are special . They are the top of the Saiya-jin. Subsequently, so are their sons as they are the same *special* bood.

[Mr. Announcer]

Something that I don't like about Goku is...Well lets look at this from Vegeta's point of view. He has been training all his life to become this Legendary Super Saiyan and take revenge for his race. Then comes this low classed random guy to steal his chance at becoming it and etc.

Well I wouldn't really put it in that light considering that Gokuh probably went through much more training than Vegeta to get there and it's as much his race to avenge as it is Vegeta's. From what I can tell, Vegeta was a pompous guy who liked to lord his status and power over everyone else and relied mostly on the natural saiyan power increase through fighting. It wasn't until Gokuh gave him a run for his money that he really got his training in gear so I guess one could say that he has Gokuh to thank for becoming a super saiyan at all. I'll admit it though, the little kids getting there is a blow to his pride that he doesn't need.

[Bejiita]

Something that I don't like about Goku is...Well lets look at this from Vegeta's point of view. He has been training all his life to become this Legendary Super Saiyan and take revenge for his race. Then comes this low classed random guy to steal his chance at becoming it and etc.

If anyone should be the SSJ it should be Vegeta. Its ok with Goku I guess(after Freeza arc) but Trunks, Gohan and the rest are too much.

Hmm, you can say the exact opposite for Goku as well. I mean, why should Goku automatically be said to be weaker, what is the meaning of being labeled a lower class saiyan warrior? It's a reason to dislike Vegeta too when you turn the tables, in the end of the day they are both Saiya-Jin and maybe the 'lower class warrior' statement is a missunderstanding as to what the Saiya-Jin can fully achieve. Since the power up for them is unlimited.

['lo Legends]

The thing is, Goku has been also training all of his life. To say that Goku stole it from Vegeta because Vegeta worked hard is nonsense. Goku worked just as hard for all of his strength, just as much so if not more than Vegeta. I doubt Vegeta ever had to beat a megalomaniacal "demon" who wanted to rule the world, climbed up a miles-high pole into the sky in order to obtain training, drunk water that almost killed him in order to make himself stronger, and much more.

[Kodoshin]

The thing is, Goku has been also training all of his life. To say that Goku stole it from Vegeta because Vegeta worked hard is nonsense. Goku worked just as hard for all of his strength, just as much so if not more than Vegeta. I doubt Vegeta ever had to beat a megalomaniacal "demon" who wanted to rule the world, climbed up a miles-high pole into the sky in order to obtain training, drunk water that almost killed him in order to make himself stronger, and much more.

Goku has had to go through a lot to be sure, but in comparison to a guy who (in the earlier portion of his life) goes around exterminating the population of planets for a living, I would think it fair to say that Vegeta has a much greater deal of actual combat experience.

That said I think they are both deserving of their status.