The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

I'm not sure why?

[Fox666]

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[Saiga]

I'm starting to view it as 10x would be pushing himself,

I don't think he would have said he could "definitely withstand about a 10-fold Kaio-Ken!" if that was the case.

That makes sense... oh well, I have no idea what the Daizenshuu is going for then.

[Kaboom]

Maybe just that once Goku "surpassed normal Saiyan limits" and all, the x10 because his new standard and the 20x became his new absolute maximum for the Kaio-Ken.

[dbzfan7]

I'm starting to view it as 10x would be pushing himself,

I don't think he would have said he could "definitely withstand about a 10-fold Kaio-Ken!" if that was the case.

I consider that pushing himself to 10x. He said "about" 10x, not "I can definitely withstand 10x". About is an approximation. Goku basically said he should be able to do 10x Kaio-ken That's like me saying I can definitely withstand 4hrs of gaming straight. I would be pushing myself to do that, but I can definitely do it.

I guess it's a mater of interpretation. I think he can't do x20 without killing himself at this point.

[Fox666]

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[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

I suppose it's possible that Gokuu would lose, because, he might not push himself beyond a Kaiou-ken x14, perhaps since he wouldn't have had such a gap of power difference with Freeza Form II than he had with Freeza 50% power.

[mysticboy]

Pikkon vs. Ten (at equal power levels)

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Paikuhan vs. Ten (at equal power levels)

I would say Paikuhan because of his Tornado and Thunder Flash.

[Saiga]

Paikuhan vs. Ten (at equal power levels)

Paikuhan for having nifty abilities and I imagine more skill (from training for so long).

[Rocketman]

Pikkon because Tien is an overrated punkbutt.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Paikuhan vs. Ten (at equal power levels)

If for whatever plot hax reasons Tien had power equal to Pikkon's then Pikkon would still win. His skill is far superior. I suppose if Tien got a Kikoho off he might win though.

[Saiga]

Here's some...

Ledgic vs Gohan (GT)

Captain Ginyu vs Gurd, Recoome, Jheeze and Butta

Goten & Trunks vs Cell Jr.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

SS3 Vegetto vs SS4 Gogeta

Vegetto is from Z/manga, Gogeta is from GT.

Check this first before posting, if you haven't. I guess the Super Saiyan 4 they are referring to there is just Goku, since by the time this info were released, SS4 Vegeta & Gogeta hadn't appeared yet in the anime. Also, it seems that this section goes by "manga logic", rather than "Toei logic", which made GT base Goku stronger than Boo arc SS3 Goku (if they were going by Toei logic, it would mean that base Vegetto is thousands of times stronger than base Goku in Boo arc, while he was stated to be dozens of times stronger in the Daizenshuu. It's also unlikely that they had "GOKU X VEGETA = VEGETTO" in their mind, because SEG were released 12 years later).

And, we also know that Super Vegetto is stronger than M12 SS Gogeta, since the Daizenshuu say that Potara is greater than Fusion.

Ledgic vs Gohan (GT)

Going by manga logic, Gohan wins with Super Saiyan 2. By Toei logic, Gohan looses.

Captain Ginyu vs Gurd, Recoome, Jheeze and Butta

Gurd freezes Ginyu with his Paralysis Arts, and Reacoom, Jheese, and Butta combine their ki blasts to destroy Ginyu. So, Ginyu is screwed.

Goten & Trunks vs Cell Jr.

Goten & Trunks loose badly. I have them around #16's level, and the Cell Jr.s are obviously above Second Form Cell, the same Cell that #16 was punching in the face and wasn't moving an inch.

[Saiga]

Would Gurd's powers work, though? Remember that Chaozu failed to use his on Nappa, and that's 610 to 4,000 while Gurd is... uh... under 10,000? to Ginyu's 120,000.

I have SS4 Gogeta being somewhere over 1.6 billion times stronger than SS3 Vegetto (no hyperbole) so he easily wins this.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Would Gurd's powers work, though? Remember that Chaozu failed to use his on Nappa, and that's 610 to 4,000 while Gurd is... uh... under 10,000? to Ginyu's 120,000.

Now that you mention it, I don't know. If Gurd can make it, then they win. If not, Ginyu wins.

I have SS4 Gogeta being somewhere over 1.6 billion times stronger than SS3 Vegetto (no hyperbole) so he easily wins this.

Going by "manga logic", or by "Toei logic"?

[Saiga]

It's a Toei character and a Toei form. I wouldn't be able to apply manga logic in this case.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It's a Toei character and a Toei form. I wouldn't be able to apply manga logic in this case.

You could, if you ignore the statements & battles that make Goku ridiculously strong, and guess about how much stronger he logically got after 15 years.

[mysticboy]

Even going by manga logic, SSJ4 Gogeta should beat SSJ3 Vegetto. There's at least 15 years of training and a 10x power gap between them. If GT Goku and GT Vegeta were fusees of Vegetto and he had access to SSJ4, I'd see him winning after an extremely hard fought battle.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I also think Gogeta wins. We have for:

Super Vegetto: several dozens of times more powerful than SS Goku (Boo arc), slightly stronger than SS4 Goku (GT), stronger than M12 SS Gogeta, 8 times more powerful in Super Saiyan 3.

Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta: several dozens of times more powerful than SS4 Goku.

Which would mean that while SS4 Gogeta is several dozens of times more powerful than SS4 Goku, SS3 Vegetto would not even be ten times stronger than SS4 Goku.