DB Fighting Games: Overall good or not quite what you want?

[Taku128]

The games not selling won't encourage them to make better games, it will encourage them to make games at a lower cost, like the HD Collection or Dragon Ball Z for Kinect.

Giving construction feedback, like what Nostal is doing with his fanwishes, will.

This is not how things work at all. Video games are a business, and if the games are still meeting their sales expectations they're not going to put extra effort in to improve things. Ultimate Tenkaichi was the best selling Dragon Ball game in awhile, so arguing that we got HD Collection and DBZ Kinect because the sales were low is flat out wrong. When sales were low we got Raging Blast, Raging Blast 2, and Ultimate Tenkaichi, all of which are sub-par and barely did anything to improve compared to previous installments (Raging Blast 1, 2) or were flat out worse than earlier games (Ultimate Tenkaichi). They still sold decently enough for NB to continue making games though, as the budget for each installment is probably low given they make five character types and then divide 100 character skins between them.

The only way things will actually change is if fans stop being sheep and shelling out $60 a year for the latest rehash of whatever DBZ game Namco Bandai's been shitting out for several years in a row. Once sales get low enough NamBan will either realize that they need to put more effort into their games or just stop making Dragon Ball games altogether, and with a shelf full of games that play exactly like the ones they'd hypothetically put out in the future I'd be perfectly fine with the latter.

[Rocketman]

I think it's funny how people keep bitching about "GRR THOSE FANS WHO JUST WANT MOAR CHARAS ARE RUINING THINGS" when I am one of those fans and I'm equally pissed at the latest generation of DB games.

The games since BT3/IW haven't been satisfying either group of fans, that's why they're tanking.

[InfernalVegito]

I think it's funny how people keep bitching about "GRR THOSE FANS WHO JUST WANT MOAR CHARAS ARE RUINING THINGS" when I am one of those fans and I'm equally pissed at the latest generation of DB games.

Exactly. It's not like there aren't people who demand fan-service and still think these games are sub-par. Hell, even BT3 had flaws.
But people will continue to shed out 60 bucks for each new game, because it's Dragon Ball.

[DNA]

It's not so much complaining about how many characters are in, it's the fact that that seems to be the sole focus of many fans and the developers. Cram the most shit you can into the game and call it a day, who cares about actually developing each character first?

[Saiga]

This is not how things work at all. Video games are a business, and if the games are still meeting their sales expectations they're not going to put extra effort in to improve things. Ultimate Tenkaichi was the best selling Dragon Ball game in awhile, so arguing that we got HD Collection and DBZ Kinect because the sales were low is flat out wrong. When sales were low we got Raging Blast, Raging Blast 2, and Ultimate Tenkaichi, all of which are sub-par and barely did anything to improve compared to previous installments (Raging Blast 1, 2) or were flat out worse than earlier games (Ultimate Tenkaichi). They still sold decently enough for NB to continue making games though, as the budget for each installment is probably low given they make five character types and then divide 100 character skins between them.

The only way things will actually change is if fans stop being sheep and shelling out $60 a year for the latest rehash of whatever DBZ game Namco Bandai's been shitting out for several years in a row. Once sales get low enough NamBan will either realize that they need to put more effort into their games or just stop making Dragon Ball games altogether, and with a shelf full of games that play exactly like the ones they'd hypothetically put out in the future I'd be perfectly fine with the latter.

I know that video games are a business, and that they're sales driven. But Kinect and HD Collection were put out not because UT sold well (that honestly doesn't make sense) but to fill the annual quota so that they could produce a better game the following year. Spike do care about what the fans want, that's why they've opened polls, held interviews with Treevax and tried to listen to fan demands. Namco are being cheap.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Spike do care about what the fans want, that's why they've opened polls, held interviews with Treevax and tried to listen to fan demands. Namco are being cheap.

Namco Bandai is actually the one doing those things, they just invite Spike's people to the events because they are usually the developer working on the games. Shueisha is the one demanding the console game every year, so direct all blame at them.

[Saiga]

Spike do care about what the fans want, that's why they've opened polls, held interviews with Treevax and tried to listen to fan demands. Namco are being cheap.

Namco Bandai is actually the one doing those things, they just invite Spike's people to the events because they are usually the developer working on the games. Shueisha is the one demanding the console game every year, so direct all blame at them.

Oh, Shueisha is the ones I actually meant, sorry. The rights holders xD

[Rocketman]

It's not so much complaining about how many characters are in, it's the fact that that seems to be the sole focus of many fans and the developers. Cram the most shit you can into the game and call it a day, who cares about actually developing each character first?

Pretty much. I don't care if it's a 'deep' fighting game if its only options are the same standard twelve characters every game since the SNES has had.

[DNA]

It's not so much complaining about how many characters are in, it's the fact that that seems to be the sole focus of many fans and the developers. Cram the most shit you can into the game and call it a day, who cares about actually developing each character first?

Pretty much. I don't care if it's a 'deep' fighting game if its only options are the same standard twelve characters every game since the SNES has had.

No game has had the same roster. The only character common to nearly every game is Future Trunks apparently.

[Zykar]

Pretty much. I don't care if it's a 'deep' fighting game if its only options are the same standard twelve characters every game since the SNES has had.

Well that's not how it works, is it? Because a game can have Huge rosters with 200 characters in it, but if they are all played the same way they're not unique in any way, are they? While in a twelve character roster, you may not have characters like Hatchiyakku i believe that every single one of them will be different in playstyle, feel and are handled in very unique ways.

Shueisha is the one demanding the console game every year

That's one of the issues with Dragon Ball fighting games that I don't understand. If they're so eager on making money with it why aren't they doing it better and at the same time deliver a great game as well? Why force games to come out like this and sell not so well as it could and should? Comparing it again to Street Fighter, which is an almost as old and very popular franchise as Dragon Ball with Street Fighter IV games since 2009 and 2011 they sold about 7.24 million copies while Raging Blast, Raging Blast 2 and Ultimate Tenkaichi together sold 2.95 million (also launched between 2009 and 2011).

I think it's funny how people keep bitching about "GRR THOSE FANS WHO JUST WANT MOAR CHARAS ARE RUINING THINGS" when I am one of those fans and I'm equally pissed at the latest generation of DB games.

I didn't want to blame anyone and if I did it, I'm sorry. Like I said I'm also kind of a sucker for Huge rosters, but I get bored of it quickly after finishing the Story mode and unlocking everthing and end up putting it on the shelf sooner than I'd wanted to. Besides i believe (and that's why i used the Street FIghter example) that if you mix a good "Name" and good gameplay what you get is a highly successful fighting game, which is what everybody wants, right?

And what is it that makes you pissed at the latest games?

[Rocketman]

Well that's not how it works, is it? Because a game can have Huge rosters with 200 characters in it, but if they are all played the same way they're not unique in any way, are they? While in a twelve character roster, you may not have characters like Hatchiyakku i believe that every single one of them will be different in playstyle, feel and are handled in very unique ways.

Even putting aside that BT3's characters didn't all play the same way, they still are because they look different.

I am not a fighting game fan. I don't care about 'feel' if all the game lets me do is Goku vs Major Villains.

And what is it that makes you pissed at the latest games?

They're worse than BT3 in both amount of characters and quality of game design. They hacked out over half the cast in RB1, then made a big deal about giving some of them back in RB2, then hacked out a few more in UT like SS2/3 Vegeta.

[InfernalVegito]

And what is it that makes you pissed at the latest games?

I can't speak for everyone but the RB games just can't compare to BT3. Why?

- Smaller roster (And fact that they resetted it is ludicrous and aggravating. And then they go on about to add everyone successively back again for the next sequel. Bullshit tactic.)
- Overall pace is just atrociously slow compared to BT3. Every movement, especially in close combat, feels restricted and slowed down.
- Camera is often just retarded and off.
- Content in terms of stages and costumes. They had important costumes in BT3. They had the saiyajin armor for everyone who wore it for instance.
- Some supers like energy volleys look completely retarded and as if they inflict no damage at all. No trails behind them anymore.
- The fact that I can't put Gogeta and Vegetto in addition to Son Goku and Vegeta is stupid. I want to be able to put everyone in the team I want. BT3 allowed this. (Worried because for online spammers? Well, just restrict it for online mode then)

There are more things, but these are the ones I could remember off the top of my head.

[NECPS]

Every game seems incomplete since Sparking Meteor! (even if Iike Budokai 3 more)

Roster/Costume matters. A lot. Because (most) people can complain the gameplay seems equal to every single fighter, but they still have so much fun playing with them all, while they will sincerly miss one or another fighter/form/costume in any o the hi-tech games.

Dimps made it right with the worldmap, rpg-like, and adventure-like missions. We gotta belive, its the supreme bonus to a DB fighting game, but they were wrong about quality over quantity when it comes to characters. The sad part is that, lately, Spike is copying that retarded metal excuse.

Overall I would like to see cyberconect2 working on its version of DB fighting game. Damn forget Naruto, can´t you see this isn´t going nowhere. It will never be a makafushigi adoben-chaaaaaaaaa

[DNA]

So for you quantity is worth more than quality? Really? Are you actually serious?

[Darknat]

A lot of people want something like Streeth Fighter 2, which in my opinion is a bit overrated. It was a great game in it's day, but it was overdone with all it's versions, and everyone copied it.

We already got something like Streeth Fighter. Super Dragon Ball Z. It's a good game. But even though I would love to see another SDBZ game, I do prefer a game that delivers something closer to the fights in DB.

About BT and RB, characters aren't exactly clones. The approach for that game is like the approach for a cars game. Characters are different in strength and speed. They also have different strings. Special attacks are different. Some are rushes, some are grabs, some are explosions. Some charactes fly, others do not. Some characters absrov energy, others don't. You know how to play (drive) each character (car), but all of them work a bit different and have different options.

Also, it's not as esay to change the 3d model of the character to create a new character. The strings have the same effects, but the animations are unique for each character. I can tell from which part in the series each animation comes. For instance, early goku has a kiai that resembles the one he did against Chichi and Piccolo, whereas mid goku's kiai is the one he did against Burter and Jeese. The effects are the same, but the animation is different, so they at least cared enough to add different animations. They could have just do one animation for every character.


In my opinion games since BT3 have been worse and worse. They added interesting things to gameplay, like deflecting blasts, but overall, they aren't as good as BT3. And the last 2 games (ultimate blast and the kinnect one) are even worse.
Anyway, as much as I like the BT engine, I think it's already overdone and they should try something new. We already got like 9 games using that engine or modifications of it. Spike did try something new with BT, I hope some other company does the same in the near future.

[AlexFili]

Ultimate Butoden was quite fun, and the Budokai Tenkaichi games sold well.
I think the latest 360/PS3 games haven't been as good lately. Time to go back to the drawing board and start again I think.

[DNA]

Wait, Darknat explain to me how are the characters any different in strength and speed, please. I don't see nor feel any difference between characters whilst playing as them. I see different moves, different combos, counters, etc. No difference in speed and strength between characters is noticeable. If there was, that would be a good thing and a step forward, but if I can grab a fucking Saibaiman and beat the shit out of Vegetto the same way I can with any other character then something is wrong with the game.

[Zykar]

About BT and RB, characters aren't exactly clones. The approach for that game is like the approach for a cars game. Characters are different in strength and speed. They also have different strings. Special attacks are different. Some are rushes, some are grabs, some are explosions. Some charactes fly, others do not. Some characters absorb energy, others don't. You know how to play (drive) each character (car), but all of them work a bit different and have different options.

First off if i wanted a racing game i'd play one. I'm actually surprised they didn't make one yet. And secondly. I have played Gran Turismo 2 for a year almost non stop, i'm not a big fan of racing games, and that game had TONS of different gameplay and feel with each car. Not one car was exactly the same has the other and on top of that you could upgrade a car and even change its performance with loads of setups. In RB or BT you have rushes, grabs and beams or explosions like you said, but that's 3 or 4 different attacks, that are not at all different from each other for 200+ characters. Kamehameha and Gallick Ho are the same, they just change colour.

In Street FIghter, Ken's Hadoken is different from Ryu's one and so on and so forth. The differences are not that significant at a first glance, but the gameplay is affected in such a manner by those differences that it makes them totally different characters. In BT and RB all you do is mash the attack button, then sometimes press the energy attack button and then mash again, ocasionally use a special attack but in the end the differences you mentioned in the game don't affect the playstyle of any character. Even the ones that can't fly play very similar, they just don't fly, doesn't change gameplay all that much to be honest.

Since you compare it to cars, and racing games i'll make another comparison. In BT or RB, it's like all the difference between characters is the power and speed. While in a good racing game you have to pay attention to, acceleration, handling, maximum speed, etc. And with that comes a whole lot more variables like, car weight, suspension, tires, gearbox etc. In those Dragonball games you mentioned there just isn't that many variables. The proof of that is the learning curve of BT and RB compared to a good and deep fighting game is just too small.

[DNA]

Furthermore, those games are very mash and spam friendly. You can win a battle with no strategy involved in any way. Even if there is a complicated battle, like Raging Blast 2's absurdly complicated battles with nigh invincible opponents, you can unlock add-ons for your character that will once again make the battle smooth as butter, making them completely irrelevant.

[Sinestro]

Raging Blast 1almost gave the illusion of a difference between characters. (I don't remember what those moves were called. Unique skills?) That was almost enough for me to not sell the game. But not enough to pick up the second game.

I wouldn't mind a Sparking game with RB1's graphics, RB1's moves, and Sparking Meteor's character list. Along with the characters included in recent games.

And I did like the story mode as it was presented in Meteor, where every battle was a potential What If?