Cipher wrote:Also, you can seriously like whatever and still get laid. That's a revelation that'll hit you at some point.
I actually don't mind it at all, but I just wish that he used that originally. Even Vegeta and Onio in Neko Majin display this aura with "lightning", so this isn't just a Goku thing. I was just curious if anyone had heard a reason for it.Insertclevername wrote:You mean the lightening/sparks? I don't know. It confuses me too and I'm not a fan of it. It just gives people further reason to actually confuse Super Saiyan 1 with Super Saiyan 2Grade V lol.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
He was drawing the Super Saiyan aura all the time, while he was rarely coloring his characters.Marco Polo wrote:Toriyama obviously simply forgot. Recently he didn't even remember the color of 18's hair...
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
If I'm not mistaken, it was said by the movie cast at the convention in December.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:He was drawing the Super Saiyan aura all the time, while he was rarely coloring his characters.Marco Polo wrote:Toriyama obviously simply forgot. Recently he didn't even remember the color of 18's hair...
Besides, do we have proof that Toriyama made #18 with purple hair? I don't remember any, and it sounds really strange, since he should have seen colored #18 during the movie's production.
There is a big difference between Goku's Super Saiyan hairstyle & Super Saiyan 2 hairstyle, and the hairstyle that Goku has in Neko Majin Z is 100% NOT his Super Saiyan 2 hairstyle.Cold Skin wrote:As long as there's lightning, I consider it Super Saiyan 2.
The hair is a difference that is too subtle to be taken in account for me, so all that I need to know is: Super Saiyan has no lightning, Super Saiyan 2 has lightning. No need to look for more.
Whether the characters choose to enter Super Saiyan or directly Super Saiyan 2 state is all up to them depending on the situation.
Here, it is obvious to me that Neko Majin and Goku both enter Super Saiyan 2 directly, even though they don't need to refer to it by a numbered name since it pretty much shows what a Super Saiyan is like, 1 or 2 alike.
If I were them, and I felt the need to enter the Super Saiyan 2 against an opponent, I would still present it like "I present you the Super Saiyan state" or "see? I can become a Super Saiyan too", not mentionning any number.
Oh, all right then. Then I guess it's true after all.Cold Skin wrote:If I'm not mistaken, it was said by the movie cast at the convention in December.
And he couldn't have seen it through the movie's production since it was before the movie staff had drawn anything, when they asked Toriyama to provide them with character designs.
Then Toriyama showed C-18 with purple hair, and the staff had to tell him it was a bit of a stretch compared to her original blond hair, probably like "huh... okay, but... we'll draw her just like you designed, with the new clothes and all, but with blond hair, okay? Cause you know... she always had blond hair so far." and Toriyama was probably like "really? Oh well, maybe I do confuse her with another female cyborg in another manga of mine".
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
There isn't much to debate regarding the details on the hair. The style of Goku and Vegeta's hair changed all the time in the series.
Isn't that the whole point of this thread? "Why did Toriyama change the design of the Super Saiyan?"
I would agree with that if there wasn't the fact that Neko Majin has sparks in his aura as well, which from the pictures and the way he talks about it, is suggested to be his own version of Super Saiyan. And since it's a parody, I highly doubt that Toriyama would create a whole bit of information about Neko Majin's transformations. Also there's the fact that Goku transformed first, and Onio displays these same traits when he transforms, and he was probably never a Super Saiyan 2. It doesn't make sense for Toriyama to almost never show a form of Super Saiyan (SSj2) in the original manga series and then suddenly have that one as the only one that appears in his parody manga. And Toriyama's not one to remember his own details. If he didn't even remember Launch, to me it's very possible that he could've forgotten about Super Saiyan 2 entirely. It seems likely to me that he he may believe that SSj and SSj3 are the only two SSj forms, and all the other ones that he came up with don't exist.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Sparks just signify power IMO. Their are clear differences between SSJ and SSJ2 so I don't see a problem here, except for Vegeta. They need to do something with Vegeta's hair like make it spread out more and have it be more pointed or something. We could also just assume that Goku mastered his SSJ2 form thus making for a more calm look which would make his face and hair the way it is.
Vegetto only had sparks due to the ki explosion when he transformed, they weren't sustained like SSj2/SSj3 or this suggested newer design of Super Saiyan.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:As for the second change, Vegetto had sparks as a Super Saiyan in the manga as well.
... Read the rest of my post.Ketchup_Revenge wrote:Vegetto only had sparks due to the ki explosion when he transformed, they weren't sustained like SSj2/SSj3 or this suggested newer design of Super Saiyan.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:As for the second change, Vegetto had sparks as a Super Saiyan in the manga as well.
I disagree. A transformation is a transformation, not an aura change. Goku's appearance is exactly the same as a Super Saiyan, so, he didn't transform beyond Super Saiyan. What Goku got is an aura change, not an appearance change.Cold Skin wrote:I think of it more like "he stopped changing the hair for Super Saiyan 2" rather than "he started putting lightnings for Super Saiyan 1".
Apart from Cell Game Gohan, the hairstyle is a detail that can pretty much go unnoticed (a matter of "how many bangs they have in front of their forehead" or "how thin their hair spikes are" - it's especially hard to notice with Vegeta for example), while the lightnings are the most striking and important part to make a difference between the two states. If you had to keep one of those elements to make the difference, it would not be the hair, it would be the super-lightnings all over, and it wouldn't be surprising if Toriyama's memory made that choice exactly!
If he forgot one thing, it's that hairstyle has a minimal change in Super Saiyan 2, more likely than forgetting Super Saiyan 1 doesn't have lightnings.
I totally see him thinking "and we'll make them Super Saiyan 2 directly, I remember there were cool, powerful-looking lightnings" totally forgetting there was any hairstyle difference between 1 and 2.
But we'll never know for sure, I guess with that in-between drawing (just one characteristic element out of two), anyone is free to border on the Super Saiyan 1 side or the Super Saiyan 2 side.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
