The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The SEG flat out states that Goku x Vegeta = Vegetto

The thing is, what does the "x" means? Goku times Vegeta, or Goku cross Vegeta? I choose the second.

The SEG also states that Vegetto is as tremendous as multiplication. It would appear that its Goku times Vegeta.

We also have other guidebooks saying that Vegetto is several dozens of times stronger than Goku or Vegeta, which fits with SEG's line.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Where is that stated.

[hleV]

And is that even manga-based?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I think Daizenshuu 10, maybe another one. I don't have a source, but I remember others saying that that's what was said, so someone else could confirm this.

Even if it's not manga based, Goku x Vegeta doesn't make any sense. The numbers just represent one's power. The power is not numbers.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I think Daizenshuu 10, maybe another one. I don't have a source, but I remember others saying that that's what was said, so someone else could confirm this.

Even if it's not manga based, Goku x Vegeta doesn't make any sense. The numbers just represent one's power. The power is not numbers.

Vegetto can far exceed anyone in DBZ since he is uncontested. It makes perfect sense. I want a source please. I'm not gonna take that seriously until I see some evidence since that makes little sense. Several dozens of times stronger than Goku is probably 60x stronger than Goku. Problem here is SSJ2 Goku surpasses that. Yeah you could assume that its referring to SSJ3 Goku but its not specific. Yeah I found an old forum topic where you posted that Gogeta is several dozens of times stronger. This is not said about Vegetto.

[hleV]

Even if it's not manga based, Goku x Vegeta doesn't make any sense. The numbers just represent one's power. The power is not numbers.

I actually have to agree with this. BP × BP doesn't make much sense, as fusion is not some concious force which calculates the fusees' battle power (why would it even use battle power when it's a unit invented by some scientists working under Freeza?). To me it seems more like that instead of providing the formula for Goku & Vegeta's Potara fusion, it just tells that Vegetto simply ended up as strong as Goku × Vegeta in battle power, whatever actual formula was applied.

[Saiga]

Your opinion. Nothing contradicts Super Vegetto being slightly stronger, equal, or slightly weaker than a Super Saiyan 4.

Yes, but it's also only your opinion that the anime line was an error.

And it's contradicted by Vegetto needing Super Saiyan to beat Boohan, who is weaker than Pure Boo, who is surpassed by base Goku by the time GT rolls around, who when 400x stronger is beaten down by someone who goes on to become much stronger before being beaten down by SS4 Goku.

Also the line doesn't make sense to begin with because not every Super Saiyan 4 is equal so maybe Vegetto's slightly stronger than a Super Saiyan 4 Raditz.

[Fox666]

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[Mystic Gohan]

It's not like he could have felt his own ki; no less, as not himself.

You don't think you can feel your own power?

[Kaboom]

It's not about the capability, it's about the context.

Like, imagine telling someone "you're the nicest person I've ever met." Maybe you're an even nicer person than them, but that doesn't really have any bearing on your observation of other people.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Vegetto can far exceed anyone in DBZ since he is uncontested. It makes perfect sense.

I never said that "GOKU X VEGETA = VEGETTO" doesn't make sense because Vegetto is too strong. Read again my previous post, and hleV's post.

Several dozens of times stronger than Goku is probably 60x stronger than Goku. Problem here is SSJ2 Goku surpasses that.

SS2 Goku can be stronger than base Vegetto in the manga. Vegetto went Super Saiyan from the start in the manga, and in Vegetto is, say, 60 times stronger than base Goku, the Super Vegetto surpassed SS3 Goku by a lot.

And, it seems that I was wrong about Vegetto being dozens of times stronger. Fox666 confirmed that it says many times stronger.

I actually have to agree with this. BP × BP doesn't make much sense, as fusion is not some concious force which calculates the fusees' battle power (why would it even use battle power when it's a unit invented by some scientists working under Freeza?).

Yeah, that's what I mean.

To me it seems more like that instead of providing the formula for Goku & Vegeta's Potara fusion, it just tells that Vegetto simply ended up as strong as Goku × Vegeta in battle power, whatever actual formula was applied.

So, you believe that the "Goku X Vegeta" result is a coincidence?

Yes, but it's also only your opinion that the anime line was an error.

No, it's not. There are more lines that prove the Pure Boo > every Boo line wrong.

Chapter: 508 (DBZ 314), P3.4-6
Context: after Boo reverts to his pure form
Goku: “…”
Vegeta: “……Heh…Heheheh…Look! He’s shrunk down quite a bit!”
Goku: “We did it! This way, we might be able to manage something.”
Note: "He’s shrunk" is chidzimu, which typically refers to physical shrinking (like with Bulma's Micro Band) and throughout DB is never used to refer to ki diminishing. So Vegeta's probably talking about how Boo’s body has shrunk. That doesn't mean Boo's ki didn't go down too, but it's not what Vegeta's talking about here.

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P8.2
Context: as Goku fights pure Boo
Vegeta: “Kakarot…You’re incredible…I am simply no match for that Majin Boo…You’re the only one capable of fighting him…”

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast. …..Cheh~~~I guess I went and showed off too much. But I thought things would go a little better than this…!”
Vegeta: “…S …So you weren’t thinking of me…”

All these lines are present in the anime as well.

And it's contradicted by Vegetto needing Super Saiyan to beat Boohan, who is weaker than Pure Boo, who is surpassed by base Goku by the time GT rolls around, who when 400x stronger is beaten down by someone who goes on to become much stronger before being beaten down by SS4 Goku.

No, Vegetto transformed into a Super Saiyan in the anime just to make Boo shit his pants even more, showing him his superiority. The anime showed us that base Vegetto was way stronger than Boo.

Also the line doesn't make sense to begin with because not every Super Saiyan 4 is equal so maybe Vegetto's slightly stronger than a Super Saiyan 4 Raditz.

By "a Super Saiyan 4", it is referring to all the Super Saiyan 4 we had seen at that time, and Goku was the only one then. SS4 Vegeta should be included, since he was about on the same level as Goku.

It's not like he could have felt his own ki; no less, as not himself.

You don't think you can feel your own power?

Goku said that Janenba (while in his first form) was the stronger ki he ever felt, and then he beats the shit out of him in Super Saiyan 3. So, like in Movie 12, Goku's comment in GT doesn't nessesarily include himself.

[hleV]

To me it seems more like that instead of providing the formula for Goku & Vegeta's Potara fusion, it just tells that Vegetto simply ended up as strong as Goku × Vegeta in battle power, whatever actual formula was applied.

So, you believe that the "Goku X Vegeta" result is a coincidence?

Yes. The guidebook says that Potara Fusion is as great as a multiplication -- not that its formula is a multiplication, but that the fusion result is as great as if the power of the fusees was multiplied.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I don't believe that's the case, but I don't say that it's impossible. I see base Vegetto several hundreds of times stronger than Goku/Vegeta.

[Saiga]

Those lines don't prove anything. Especially not the one about Goku being the only one being capable of fighting him. The anime incarnation of Pure Boo is the strongest form of Boo, it's that simple.

[Fox666]

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[DBZGTKOSDH]

Those lines don't prove anything. Especially not the one about Goku being the only one being capable of fighting him. The anime incarnation of Pure Boo is the strongest form of Boo, it's that simple.

Sorry, forgot one more line:

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength! If we go outside like this, we’ll definitely be done in…!”

This is present in the anime as well. Evil Boo is stronger than SS3 Goku & SS2 Vegeta combined. And, like I mentioned before, Gotenks Boo is also stronger than SS3 Goku & Ultimate Gohan combined. I don't think there is anything to say about Gohan Boo. And Goku was said to be the only one who could stand a chance against Pure Boo. Goku saw an increase in Boo's ki when he transformed into S. Kaioshin Boo, but when he transformed into Pure Boo, he believed that they could manage something.

[Saiga]

Still, the anime says Pure Boo is the strongest. Therefore he is.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Still, the anime says Pure Boo is the strongest. Therefore he is.

No, all these lines I posted/described are all present in the anime as well. It's many lines against one line.

[Saiga]

Still, the anime says Pure Boo is the strongest. Therefore he is.

No, all these lines I posted/described are all present in the anime as well. It's many lines against one line.

As I said, none of the other lines mean anything. It's only the one vague line you recently posted against a clear, direct statement.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

As I said, none of the other lines mean anything. It's only the one vague line you recently posted against a clear, direct statement.

Rou Kaioshin saying that Goku & Gohan together don't stand a chance against Gotenks Boo, Goku saying that he & Vegeta together don't stand a chance against Evil Boo, and Goku saying that he alone stands a chance against Pure Boo makes things very clear.