Majin Boo arc - Your opinion?

[Eight-Star Dragon]

The arc definitely has its good points, and I guess it does manage humor better than the Cell arc, but I really don't like how Toriyama seems to be going for a 'having the new generation step up to defend the world' theme with Gohan, Goten and Trunks but then just throws it out the window so Goku can save the day for the umpteenth time.

[Jodaku]

Double post.

[Jodaku]

I'm just going to quote myself (with a few minor additions) from a similar topic from a couple of years ago (http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... f=7&t=4319) as my thoughts on the Buu arc are still pretty much the same:

I actually think the first 1/3 or so of the Buu saga (i.e. High School/Saiyaman all the way through to Vegeta’s suicide attack) is probably the most underrated part of the whole series. I just thought it was really well built up, from the fun of Gohan’s antics as Saiyaman, Goku’s return to the living to compete in the Tenkaichi Budokai, to the mystery that surrounded the tournament, the introduction of Babidi and hearing about Buu and the Saiyans fighting through those stages on Babidi’s ship to Vegeta’s eventual return to the ‘dark side’ and all the consequences that brought. All the stuff involving Vegeta's character I thought in particular was some of the best drama the series had produced. DB’s plot at that point hadn't been as tight and seemingly as well thought out as that since the Freeza arc. After Vegeta had killed himself, the saga’s plot did start to lose its way, but in a weird way it kind of made sense that the plot was as wayward as it was; as the saga progressed it became DB’s almost playful version of Armageddon. Although I prefer a well thought out plot over the randomness that was the mid to late Buu saga, it still produced a number of memorable moments like Goku’s initial SSJ3 transformation, Super Buu’s Genocide attack (which I thought was just awesome), Ultimate Gohan’s fight with Buu, Goku and Vegeta's fusion, Earth getting blown up and the the final battle. Hell, I even enjoy the series coda if you want to count that as part of the Buu arc.

And last but not least the Buu saga had Gotenks who is an absolute legend.

And Kid Buu is pretty amazing too.

The Buu saga wasn't perfect, but it had a really good beginning that’s up there with the best of DB, while the rest of it was good, if random and incoherent fun.

[dbboxkaifan]

Majin Buu arc is certainly one of my favourite Z anime arcs, because of the comedy-ness, worth time wasted episodes, relaxation and battles.

If they screw up Majin Buu arc in Kai it won't be so good as it was in Z, but then again, Toei Animation can go either way with it.

[worldmonsters]

For me the Buu arc is one of the funniest saga's but also one that raises the stakes a lot. Goku and Frieza's fight on Namek was truly epic, I mean battling on a dieing planet, how's that not the most awesomest thing you can imagine, and then Cell came along and while he was strong and he did feel menacing... it didn't really come close to that scale until Gohan's transformation to Super Saiya-jin 2 (but only the transformation itself, and perhaps the killing of the Cell Jrs) and the final beam struggle. And then the Buu arc strolls along. I like the Saiyaman stuff cause I'm a fan of Videl, so anything with her is usually good for me. But apart from that there are some seriously... well sort of epic moments as the saga slowly breaks down certain ground rules and treads where Dragon Ball had not tread before.

For starters it introduces some familiar things, like the Tenkaichi Budokai, but then stops in the middle because of plot, which is unheard of, but when they return to the tournament Majin Vegeta kills a whole heap of people. For me this is a sort of turning point. Vegeta kills people, and that is a pretty big shock for his character, especially when you hear later he was in total control. Vegeta was pretty much a good guy at that point and for the first time ever someone actually turns back to evil.

Then Babidi and Buu rampage the Earth which is pretty standard Dragon Ball stuff, or at least you'd think, but this extent of butchering had only been done by Android 17 and 18 previously. So what makes this up the stakes, for me, is that this is happening to the Earth of our main heroes, not some other timeline. And like a lot of people get murdered and eaten and everything.

The next moment is a moment that gave me a shiver and brought me out of my comfort zone. After Buu brutally murders the people who attempted to kill Bee and Mr. Satan, he immediately goes to the lookout. With exception of the Garlic Jr arc (which I really pretend didn't happen, which in the manga didn't anyway) the lookout had ALWAYS been a safe zone. Even with Cell, Cell could've easily gone there to find out what the hell had been going on with everyone growing so much stronger within a day, but he didn't. So when Buu was up there in the lookout with all the side-characters like Bulma and the others the threat of this new Buu, to me, felt like something far worse than ever before. Those characters had rarely been in so much peril as at that moment. Even Piccolo who couldn't possibly match up to him at that point. Even though it broke Piccolo from the inside the only thing he could do was say to Buu that there were more people to kill to buy some time. And then Buu annihilates the entire human population of the world. Like virtually everyone. Dragon Balls or no, with Dende there being under threat of Majin Buu that's really pretty intense. To me this came very close to the end of the Frieza arc in terms of epicness. Of course a few chapters/episodes later the lookout gets totally destroyed just to completely destroy whatever safety net the heroes thought they had.

And then Kid Buu just destroys the planet. He destroys the Earth. Goku saved Dende, but with no actual Dragon Balls, that's pretty much no help AT ALL. And I know there are the Namek Dragon Balls, but jeez, no enemy ever had ACTUALLY destroyed the Earth. And then (anime only) Kid Buu teleports to the After Life. Cause whatever, you thought things couldn't be worse, but now even when you're in Heaven you aren't safe. It's only a shame that the rule "if you die when you're dead you vanish forever" only came when Vegeta was in peril a few moments later.

And then finally the allpowerful Spirit Bomb powered by the entire Human race kills Kid Buu. Such a magnificent ending. And Mr. Satan being finally useful helped too :p

I dunno, I thought those epic moments made up so much for all the plotholes but I can still see the flaws, but it is my favourite saga (apart from the fights inside Babidi's spaceship, that was boring to me :/)

[Beji]

I had a question which I didn't want to make a new thread for about the Buu saga. I know it is silly but why couldn't android 18 hear Goten and Trunks ? I thought it was funny that she could hear Maron yell to do her best. Was that just in the english dub? Or does she not actually hear her? I thought it was creative they fought that she would be one of the few fighters in the series who possibly couldn't sense that they were 2 people off the bat.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Definitely the worst arc but that's not saiyan much since all of dbz is awesome. Pros and cons eh? Well I suppose the pros are great character development, fusion, ultimate gohan, majin Vegeta vs goku, and humor being thrown back into the mix. The cons are the many stupid decisions of the characters in the arc as well as the overall story. Another personal problem I have with this arc is that Vegeta didn't go ssj3.

[B]

It's definitely the first time since his appearance that Vegeta wasn't a necessary story-move-along-er and I was genuinely invested in his character.

I like the idea of viewing the arc as Toriyama being so burned out that he's parodying himself. Extreme use of his "triangle face" that he received fanmail about being hated, a silly villain with an absurd amount of forms, A new Super Saiyan transformation with exaggerated hair, combining two characters together... It was his final "fuck this weekly schedule" hurrah.

[gialloman]

The arc definitely has its good points, and I guess it does manage humor better than the Cell arc, but I really don't like how Toriyama seems to be going for a 'having the new generation step up to defend the world' theme with Gohan, Goten and Trunks but then just throws it out the window so Goku can save the day for the umpteenth time.

I 2nd that, Plus I didn't like the tone shift for Gohan, he went from being the main character to just being shot down to let Goku be the main star again

[DBZ Mick]

In the end it really isn't Goku who saves the day though. It's his technique sure but if it wasn't for Vegeta's planning and Mr. Satan helping out and such.

I 2nd that, Plus I didn't like the tone shift for Gohan, he went from being the main character

Gohan was never THE main character though until the shift to the more leading role at the Cell Game.

[Kid Buu]

In his review of Bram Stoker's Dracula, Johnathan Rosenbaum described the film as "A somewhat dispersed and overcrowded story line that remains fascinating and often affecting thanks to all its visual and conceptual energy."

So what the hell does that have to do with anything? Because that quote is exactly how I feel about the Buu arc. The story is all over the place, yet the action, visuals, and humour of it keep it up float and watchable.