Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character?

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:47 pm

No. I don't wanna view Gohan's high school career for the rest of the series. The dudes lazy and doesn't train. Maybe if Gohan didn't become a pacifist in the Cell saga I might consider it.
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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Marco Polo » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:47 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:No. I don't wanna view Gohan's high school career for the rest of the series. The dudes lazy and doesn't train. Maybe if Gohan didn't become a pacifist in the Cell saga I might consider it.
If Goku died, you can bet Gohan would train. In the official story, the only reason he doesn't, despite not "liking" to fight, is because he doesn't need to.

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Saiyan Femme » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:56 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:The dudes lazy and doesn't train.
How's Gohan lazy? Because he doesn't train? I would say he has dedicated an impressive amount of effort and time for something he doesn't seem to enjoy very much (fighting and training). Doesn't sound lazy to me.


Anyway, it's not like it was necessary for Gohan to destroy Buu all by himself, Goku didn't beat any of the Z villains by himself anyway. I would have enjoyed some good quality team effort like in the Saiyan saga, with Gohan being part of the "team" to live up to all that hype. Can't even tell you how awesome it would have been for me to see Gohan & Vegeta (my favorite characters) teaming up against Buu.

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Marco Polo » Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:51 pm

Gohan and Vegeta interactions was such a missed opportunity in the Buu Saga... The Namek Saga had some interesting interactions between the two. In the Android Saga it made sense that they didn't speak to each other much since Vegeta had Trunks to deal with first and foremost, but in the Buu Saga their interactions didn't resume. Even when Vegeta criticized Gohan's lack of training (in Babidi's spaceship) he was addressing his rant to Goku and not so much to Gohan directly.

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Saiyan Femme » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:39 pm

Marco Polo wrote:Gohan and Vegeta interactions was such a missed opportunity in the Buu Saga... The Namek Saga had some interesting interactions between the two. In the Android Saga it made sense that they didn't speak to each other much since Vegeta had Trunks to deal with first and foremost, but in the Buu Saga their interactions didn't resume. Even when Vegeta criticized Gohan's lack of training (in Babidi's spaceship) he was addressing his rant to Goku and not so much to Gohan directly.
Completely missed opportunity, with Goku dead in the Buu saga they could have easily ended up having to work together to fight off the villains.

My crazy never-gonna-happen wish for the new movie would be a Gohan/Vegeta fusion, although whatever comes out of that might just implode from such contrasting personalities..

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by DBZ Mick » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:35 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:No. I don't wanna view Gohan's high school career for the rest of the series. The dudes lazy and doesn't train. Maybe if Gohan didn't become a pacifist in the Cell saga I might consider it.
This.

I would potentially have loved Gohan as the main character up until the end of the Freeza arc. Toriyama making Gohan a pacifist and somewhat throwing away all his development up until that point made me start not liking (no matter if he was 'badass' as SSJ2- although his transformation was cool). BUT, I do like a lot of the Saiyaman/Peace arc material so if it was like that then...maybe. Gah!
It is in his character to be rude and a bit crass. He's a hick, with no formal education. That is Son Goku. That is who he is.

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:43 pm

Saiyan Femme wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:The dudes lazy and doesn't train.
How's Gohan lazy? Because he doesn't train? I would say he has dedicated an impressive amount of effort and time for something he doesn't seem to enjoy very much (fighting and training). Doesn't sound lazy to me.


Anyway, it's not like it was necessary for Gohan to destroy Buu all by himself, Goku didn't beat any of the Z villains by himself anyway. I would have enjoyed some good quality team effort like in the Saiyan saga, with Gohan being part of the "team" to live up to all that hype. Can't even tell you how awesome it would have been for me to see Gohan & Vegeta (my favorite characters) teaming up against Buu.
He only trains when he has to. If Piccolo or Goku isn't telling Gohan to train, he isn't gonna do it himself.
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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Saiyan Femme » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:41 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Saiyan Femme wrote:
TheMightyOzaru wrote:The dudes lazy and doesn't train.
How's Gohan lazy? Because he doesn't train? I would say he has dedicated an impressive amount of effort and time for something he doesn't seem to enjoy very much (fighting and training). Doesn't sound lazy to me.


Anyway, it's not like it was necessary for Gohan to destroy Buu all by himself, Goku didn't beat any of the Z villains by himself anyway. I would have enjoyed some good quality team effort like in the Saiyan saga, with Gohan being part of the "team" to live up to all that hype. Can't even tell you how awesome it would have been for me to see Gohan & Vegeta (my favorite characters) teaming up against Buu.
He only trains when he has to. If Piccolo or Goku isn't telling Gohan to train, he isn't gonna do it himself.
He doesn't "have to" anything. The only time he was forced was when Piccolo first started training him, but it's obvious by the time we actually see some of the training (instead of the survival part) that Gohan was fully committed to it by then, Piccolo couldn't possibly force him to put all that effort into the training. All the other times he significantly trains are all his choice, because that is his first priority, fighting off the villains and keeping the peace in the world.
It's no coincidence that Future Gohan never stopped fighting, or that present time Gohan became the Great Saiyaman, his will for defending good/peace/etc always ends up being stronger than his distaste for fighting/training/etc. But since clearly it is not a particularly enjoyable activity for him, it will never be his life of choice in the times of peace.

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Diotor » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:59 pm

The only Gohan I really liked was Mirai no Gohan, as he was the only Gohan ever to really experience the true desperation of being totally alone against the Androids (as Trunks was just a makeweight at the time). So no, I don't think he would have.

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Duo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:03 am

It still disappoints me to this day that Gohan didn't play out as the true successor. That's the one and only good argument for ending the series with the Cell arc - because the character arc of Gohan falls into a pit for no reason. I admit he was underdeveloped in the Artificial Human arc but it could have be rectified much better.

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by ABED » Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:44 am

Gohan didn't have to "fall into a pit" but it always was Goku's story.
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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Insertclevername » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:27 pm

ABED wrote:Gohan didn't have to "fall into a pit" but it always was Goku's story.
Wasn't much of Gokuu's story during half of Boo arc. The series was doing just fine with him not around.
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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Hades » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:52 pm

If I were doing Gohan as protagonist, I'd have Gohan be extremely mentally unstable (Come on, tortured by Piccolo for months, abandoned for a similar amount of time, subjected to nightmares by Vegeta and Freeza, before being tortured again so his "potential" could be awakened - I'd actually have had him go "I'm mad as hell" and turn Dark Phoenix at Cell Games. That said, doing a Great Saiyaman act is a suggestion of insanity, if Batman is anything to go by). We then see a complete breakdown as the fight with Majin Buu worsens, and we see him become a complete mental wreck (think Batman if he loses control) by the end of it all, as he has saved the world, but lost everything dear to him.
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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Rocketman » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:58 pm

I like how you can hear the gears grinding when the story shifts in the Buu Arc.

You've got Gohan's Saiyaman doing, him getting blackmailed by Videl, and Vegeta challenging him at the tournament. Then,

"YOU WEREN'T THINKING ABOUT HAVING A PLOT WITHOUT ME, WERE YOU?"

Vegeta: "Kakarot! BEEP TARGET REACQUIRED - BEST KAKAROT"

Bulma: "Goku!" *throws panties*

Gohan: "Dad~! OMG, I gotta go tell everyone!"

Everyone: "Gokuuu~!" *throws panties*

And Gohan's plots all poof into the aether so we can fawn over ~Goku~.

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by ABED » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:15 pm

Insertclevername wrote:
ABED wrote:Gohan didn't have to "fall into a pit" but it always was Goku's story.
Wasn't much of Gokuu's story during half of Boo arc. The series was doing just fine with him not around.
I think that part of the series suffered by not having him there. Gotenks is kinda funny but it's the low point of that arc. Without Goku as the lead, we probably wouldn't have gotten Vegeta finally admitting "Kakarotto, you are #1!" which is a high light of the entire series and brings his story to a logical conclusion.

Having Goku resume his role as the main character doesn't mean Toriyama would have to sacrifice Gohan. Plus, I've never been sold on him as the hero of the story. Goku got where he got through talent and force of will. Gohan constantly had power ups just to keep him relevant.
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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:47 pm

ABED wrote:
Insertclevername wrote:
ABED wrote:Gohan didn't have to "fall into a pit" but it always was Goku's story.
Wasn't much of Gokuu's story during half of Boo arc. The series was doing just fine with him not around.
I think that part of the series suffered by not having him there. Gotenks is kinda funny but it's the low point of that arc. Without Goku as the lead, we probably wouldn't have gotten Vegeta finally admitting "Kakarotto, you are #1!" which is a high light of the entire series and brings his story to a logical conclusion.
The later portion of the Majin Boo Saga is the worst part of the anime/manga in general IMO. It was essentially one huge circle jerk of logical leaps in power-ups, Plot-Induced Stupidity, and a Deux Ex Machina. Also Goku wasn't nearly as sympathetic as he is in the previous story arcs.
Duo wrote:It still disappoints me to this day that Gohan didn't play out as the true successor. That's the one and only good argument for ending the series with the Cell arc - because the character arc of Gohan falls into a pit for no reason. I admit he was underdeveloped in the Artificial Human arc but it could have be rectified much better.
There are a million reasons why the series should have ended there.
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Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by ABED » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:07 pm

There's no should have beyond you thinking the Buu arc wasn't well done. I'm all for a continuation of the story as I would much rather have Goku alive in the end. I don't see how Goku wasn't sympathetic. Maybe his logic was shaky but his heart is always in the right place.

The whole successor think I think is weird. Goku has no successor. For one, being the Earth's protector was just a responsibility that fell on his shoulders by accident, not something he strove for, and Goku is the main character from the beginning. Having someone take the main character's spot doesn't work well. There's a certain literary symmetry to passing the torch but it's not all that interesting to see it in practice. The biggest gripe I have with Gohan being the main character is that him being the strongest is he's the strongest by luck. Goku attains his skills by choice and effort. Gohan trains, but he never trained as hard as Goku and his greatest leaps in strength were matters of luck, rage, genetics, and mysticism.

With Goku as the hero, you can still have the rest of his friends play an integral part. Look at the fight against Nappa and Vegeta, everyone had a role and their moment to shine. Even Yajirobe had a small but integral part to play in defeating Vegeta.
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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:29 pm

ABED wrote:There's no should have beyond you thinking the Buu arc wasn't well done. I'm all for a continuation of the story as I would much rather have Goku alive in the end. I don't see how Goku wasn't sympathetic. Maybe his logic was shaky but his heart is always in the right place.
He wasn't entirely unsympathetic but his decisions were really strange, and some of them even go against his character. For example, why would he hold back against Majin Vegeta despite knowing the consequences of drawing the battle out? What's worse is that Gohan and Kaioshin was at Majin Boo's path. Even Vegeta seemed to care more about what happened to Gohan. And his decision to leave the fate of all creation to Gotenks while not completely bad, is warped-up Flanderization of his teacher role in the Cell Saga where he did want Gohan to be the one to take the mantle but it was ultimately because he was the only one who can beat Cell via latent powers, and Cell was a lesser evil than Majin Boo.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by ABED » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:36 pm

Gohan allowed himself to go soft in the 7 years after the Cell games. Clearly, he's not up for the role of protector. Goku thought Gotenks would've been able to defeat fat Buu, and probably with ease as a Super Saiyan. How could anyone have forseen the transformation?

I let Goku off the hook for holding back. For all the audience knew, he wasn't. Toriyama makes it up as he goes along, so I don't think he anticipated Super Saiyan 3 by that point, which lead to large leaps in logic.
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Re: Do you think Gohan would have made a good main character

Post by Insertclevername » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:40 pm

ABED wrote:
Insertclevername wrote:
ABED wrote:Gohan didn't have to "fall into a pit" but it always was Goku's story.
Wasn't much of Gokuu's story during half of Boo arc. The series was doing just fine with him not around.
I think that part of the series suffered by not having him there. Gotenks is kinda funny but it's the low point of that arc. Without Goku as the lead, we probably wouldn't have gotten Vegeta finally admitting "Kakarotto, you are #1!" which is a high light of the entire series and brings his story to a logical conclusion.
I meant the everything before Gotenks. It was being built up great with both comedy and a good set up (the tournament and Boo). Gokuu could still have been in the story but why does he have to be the main focus? It was already building up to Gohan.
ABED wrote:Gohan allowed himself to go soft in the 7 years after the Cell games. Clearly, he's not up for the role of protector.
Which makes him all the more interesting as a protagonist as he's a flawed hero with very human desires and needs. Plus, it could've been written in the story that he "learns" his lesson and starts to train in peace time.
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