Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Victorious]

Where is the implication that Androids arc Piccolo can "manhandle" SSj Trunks?

I mean SSJ Trunks against Mecha Freeza, not SSJ Trunks in the Android arc...who had trained for 3 years.

And the implication is practically everything.

1. Piccolo doesn't run away from the Androids [when Krillin suggested they retreat] after seen Sick Goku get beaten by Android #19. And they had no Idea Vegeta was about to go SSJ. This implies Piccolo can handle the feats Android #19 just displayed against Sick Goku. And Sick SSJ Goku's power is implied to blow out SSJ Yadrat Goku's power since Yamcha and Ten are stunned at his power, who in turned easily blocked SSJ Trunks best attacks with his sword back in the mecha arc.

2. Piccolo says this after he beats the shit out of Android #20/Dr. Gero.

Chapter: 347 (DBZ 153), P3.2-3
Piccolo: “It seems that in the original history, we were supposed to be wiped out by you two androids…But it looks like the future has changed somehow…Was it that you weren’t as strong as we thought?...Or have we grown too strong?...

Piccolo knows that the Androids of the Future can absolutely manhandle with ease SSJ Future Trunks [vs Mecha Freeza] who'm of course he sensed.

The point is if Piccolo hadn't far surpassed SSJ Future Trunks [vs Mecha Freeza] then he would instantly know these Androids were not the ones Trunks warned them about considering he just tooled them, rather than speculate or wonder.

Piccolo >> Androids >> SSJ Trunks [vs Mecha]

[Kamiccolo9]

Where is the implication that Androids arc Piccolo can "manhandle" SSj Trunks?

I mean SSJ Trunks against Mecha Freeza, not SSJ Trunks in the Android arc...who had trained for 3 years.

And the implication is practically everything.

1. Piccolo doesn't run away from the Androids [when Krillin suggested they retreat] after seen Sick Goku get beaten by Android #19. And they had no Idea Vegeta was about to go SSJ. This implies Piccolo can handle the feats Android #19 just displayed against Sick Goku. And Sick SSJ Goku's power is implied to blow out SSJ Yadrat Goku's power since Yamcha and Ten are stunned at his power, who in turned easily blocked SSJ Trunks best attacks with his sword back in the mecha arc.

2. Piccolo says this after he beats the shit out of Android #20/Dr. Gero.

Chapter: 347 (DBZ 153), P3.2-3
Piccolo: “It seems that in the original history, we were supposed to be wiped out by you two androids…But it looks like the future has changed somehow…Was it that you weren’t as strong as we thought?...Or have we grown too strong?...


Piccolo knows that the Androids of the Future can absolutely manhandle with ease SSJ Future Trunks [vs Mecha Freeza] who'm of course he sensed.

The point is if Piccolo hadn't far surpassed SSJ Future Trunks [vs Mecha Freeza] then he would instantly know these Androids were not the ones Trunks warned them about considering he just tooled them, rather than speculate or wonder.

Piccolo >> Androids >> SSJ Trunks [vs Mecha]

Trunks didn't train for 3 years, only 8 months. Otherwise I agree with you, though.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Piccolo didn't put much thought in this. He thought that #19 & #20 were the ones that killed everyone in the future, and since he saw that they were weaker than him, he concluded that he got stronger than them. Turns out however that these two are not the ones from the future, and that they are much weaker than #17 & #18. So, Piccolo was wrong all along.

[Kamiccolo9]

Piccolo didn't put much thought in this. He thought that #19 & #20 were the ones that killed everyone in the future, and since he saw that they were weaker than him, he concluded that he got stronger than them. Turns out however that these two are not the ones from the future, and that they are much weaker than #17 & #18. So, Piccolo was wrong all along.

He was training to defeat enemies that he knew were stronger than Freeza. Why would he be confident in their ability to win if he was weaker than that?

[RandomGuy96]

He could simply think that they got stronger through absorbing energy from of the more vulnerable Z-fighters in the future. Since, you know, that's exactly what they were doing. Notably he never fights one on one until after he sees THEM fight. Vegeta even says that they're nowhere near as powerful as he thought they'd be. And sick Goku doesn't have to be stronger than Yardrat Goku; Tien never sensed his full power or anything, Yamcha even says of Yardrat Goku "Wh…what ki…and he’s not even fighting…". Tien's exact words were "In-incredible…What strength…S-so that’s a Super Saiyan…He’s in a completely different dimension than we are…Too different". He also says "There’s no need to worry. Goku is outrageously strong. This ‘Super Saiyan’ thing is incredible" which says nothing about Sick Goku being stronger than Yardrat Goku, just about the general power of Super Saiyans. And why would he say that he's awed by the strength of a Super Saiyan, and not Goku specifically after the training?

The manga is the most official source, sorry bub.

Oh, you're one of those people. Never mind then.

Trunks didn't train for 3 years, only 8 months. Otherwise I agree with you, though.

Just as an aside, this is why I place Trunks a lot lower than Goku and Vegeta in the android arc, which some people have problems with. He started out way weaker than Goku and had a quarter of the time to train, there's no way he should become comparable to Goku for no reason.

He was training to defeat enemies that he knew were stronger than Freeza. Why would he be confident in their ability to win if he was weaker than that?

No one but Goku knows how strong Freeza is, for one thing.

[Kamiccolo9]

He could simply think that they got stronger through absorbing energy from of the more vulnerable Z-fighters in the future. Since, you know, that's exactly what they were doing. Notably he never fights one on one until after he sees THEM fight. Vegeta even says that they're nowhere near as powerful as he thought they'd be. And sick Goku doesn't have to be stronger than Yardrat Goku; Tenshinhan never sensed his full power or anything, Yamcha even says of Yardrat Goku "Wh…what ki…and he’s not even fighting…". Tenshinhan's exact words were "In-incredible…What strength…S-so that’s a Super Saiyan…He’s in a completely different dimension than we are…Too different". He also says "There’s no need to worry. Goku is outrageously strong. This ‘Super Saiyan’ thing is incredible" which says nothing about Sick Goku being stronger than Yardrat Goku, just about the general power of Super Saiyans. And why would he say that he's awed by the strength of a Super Saiyan, and not Goku specifically after the training?

The manga is the most official source, sorry bub.

Oh, you're one of those people. Never mind then.

He was training to defeat enemies that he knew were stronger than Freeza. Why would he be confident in their ability to win if he was weaker than that?

No one but Goku knows how strong Freeza is, for one thing.

Well, Piccolo knew how strong Trunks was. And he trained to defeat enemies that were stronger than him.
And he mentions his confidence in victory before they even see the androids. So it stands to reason that he was at least as strong as Trunks was when he beat Freeza, and probably stronger.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He was training to defeat enemies that he knew were stronger than Freeza. Why would he be confident in their ability to win if he was weaker than that?

What would you think? You know that these guys are that strong, then you notice that you are stronger than them. Wouldn't that mean that you got stronger? That's what Piccolo thought. He didn't put much thought into it, he came to a quick conclusion.

Also, Piccolo didn't know Freeza's full power.

[Victorious]

You would have to turn Piccolo into a complete retard if you were to insinuate he's not far stronger than SSJ Trunks vs Mecha Freeza.

"hmmm maybe you guys are stronger than Trunks, but I've grown so strong that even though I'm weaker than Trunks, I can still whoop anyone stronger than Trunks! lulz".

That's basically what he would be saying if he's weaker than Trunks. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.

Piccolo being far stronger than Trunks is supported not only by that line, but again the placement of Sick SSJ Goku, Yadrat Goku, and himself. He's far over sick SSJ Goku for sure.

"In-incredible…What strength…S-so that’s a Super Saiyan…He’s in a completely different dimension than we are…Too different".

Exactly. Incredible and What strength. Tenshinhan wouldnt be saying this if Sick Goku is weaker than Yadrat Goku. He would probably be saying "hmm, not as powerful as i remember". We know he saw Yadrat Goku transform into SSJ for the demonstration and the little 10 second sparring match against Trunks. Instead he seems amazed and surprised at sick SSJ Goku's strength. And of course he should be, since Goku's been training for 3 years.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Like I said, Piccolo came to a quick conclusion & didn't put much thought into it (he did the same thing with Gotenks in Boo arc, when he thought that base Gotenks could defeat Evil Boo), which is exactly the opposite thing that you are doing.

[Victorious]

Like I said, Piccolo came to a quick conclusion & didn't put much thought into it (he did the same thing with Gotenks in Boo arc, when he thought that base Gotenks could defeat Evil Boo), which is exactly the opposite thing that you are doing.

Buu's "Ki is like a lie", it's impossible to gauge his ki properly. He has a sensible ki and a real ki, his sensible ki is what's around base Gotenks strength.

[RandomGuy96]

Exactly. Incredible and What strength. Tenshinhan wouldnt be saying this if Sick Goku is weaker than Yadrat Goku. He would probably be saying "hmm, not as powerful as i remember". We know he saw Yadrat Goku transform into SSJ for the demonstration and the little 10 second sparring match against Trunks. Instead he seems amazed and surprised at sick SSJ Goku's strength. And of course he should be, since Goku's been training for 3 years.

Like I said, he never sensed Yardrat Goku's full strength. If he did, Yamcha wouldn't have said that Goku's strong even when "he's not even fighting" and Tien wouldn't have been awed by the power of a Super Saiyan, but by the power of this Super Saiyan. And he would've already known the power of a Super Saiyan was in a completely different dimension.

[Kamiccolo9]

Like I said, Piccolo came to a quick conclusion & didn't put much thought into it (he did the same thing with Gotenks in Boo arc, when he thought that base Gotenks could defeat Evil Boo), which is exactly the opposite thing that you are doing.

Piccolo had no idea how strong the Androids really were, because they had no ki to sense. All he knew was that he had spent the last 3 years training to defeat enemies that were stronger than SSJ Trunks, and he was willing to fight these enemies.

He was training to defeat enemies that he knew were stronger than Freeza. Why would he be confident in their ability to win if he was weaker than that?

What would you think? You know that these guys are that strong, then you notice that you are stronger than them. Wouldn't that mean that you got stronger? That's what Piccolo thought. He didn't put much thought into it, he came to a quick conclusion.

Also, Piccolo didn't know Freeza's full power.

He knew how strong Trunks was as a Super Saiyan though, and he was stronger than Freeza. Piccolo was training for, and ready to fight, beings that were stronger than Trunks. And he was willing to do this before seeing Androids 19 and 20 fight.

[Victorious]

Exactly. Incredible and What strength. Tenshinhan wouldnt be saying this if Sick Goku is weaker than Yadrat Goku. He would probably be saying "hmm, not as powerful as i remember". We know he saw Yadrat Goku transform into SSJ for the demonstration and the little 10 second sparring match against Trunks. Instead he seems amazed and surprised at sick SSJ Goku's strength. And of course he should be, since Goku's been training for 3 years.

Like I said, he never sensed Yardrat Goku's full strength. If he did, Yamcha wouldn't have said that Goku's strong even when "he's not even fighting" and Tenshinhan wouldn't have been awed by the power of a Super Saiyan, but by the power of this Super Saiyan. And he would've already known the power of a Super Saiyan was in a completely different dimension.

Well I don't know how strong Yadrat Goku was, never saw anything that suggested that Super Saiyans could suppressed their powers prior to RoSaT training though.

not even fighting just means fighting ki > standing ki.

[Victorious]

He knew how strong Trunks was as a Super Saiyan though, and he was stronger than Freeza. Piccolo was training for, and ready to fight, beings that were stronger than Trunks. And he was willing to do this before seeing Androids 19 and 20 fight.

His quote to #20 seals the deal. This isnt even worth a debate. Our POV doesn't turn characters into retards. Piccolo is always known to be rather sensible anyway. If Piccolo was manhandling Androids who were way weaker than SSJ Trunks, and he himself was weaker than SSJ Trunks. He would instantly know these weren't the Androids #17 and #18 of the Future than Trunks came to warn them about, and would never insuate he could have "just grown too strong".

Everything points Piccolo at this point being >> Trunks vs Mecha Freeza. Not a single thing to the opposite except for "Herp derp, I can't see Piccolo getting that much stronger in 3 years".

[Kaboom]

This isn't even worth a debate.
Not a single thing to the opposite except for "Herp derp, I can't see Piccolo getting that much stronger in 3 years".

We really don't need to dismiss or belittle others' opinions like this.

Anyway, I think Piccolo's line is probably vague on purpose. At this point in the manga, Toriyama was most likely already well into the process of ditching 19 and 20 as the main villains and replacing them with 17 and 18 who would be hyped up as "the true threat" in a narrative sense. Some ambiguity in order to downplay 19 and 20's own threat level would be expected, and their strength in relation to anyone else is up to interpretation.

[RandomGuy96]

I've revised my list. Lots of little modifications were made. Once again, any feedback, even if it's old stuff, would be appreciated. This also incorporates a few things I don't really believe but just want to put on the list for the purposes of making it distinct (not that they're invalid theories or anything), like SS Gotenks being stronger than Fat Buu.

MULTIPLIERS

Super Saiyan- x50
--Grade 2- x75
--Grade 3- x130
--Super Saiyan 2- x100
--Super Saiyan 3- x400

Super Arcosian- x2

Super Hera- x2

Kaio-Ken- x(level of Kaio-Ken)

Fusion Dance: B x 50

Potara Fusion- (A + B) x Y
--Y is dependent on how close the user's power is. Kibito Kai's was (A + B) x 4. Vegito's was (A + B) x 100.

BARDOCK: FATHER OF GOKU

Bardock- 9,800
Selypa- 1,800
Tatapo- 2,400
Pambukin- 1,920
Toma- 2,800
Dodoria- 22,000
Dodoria's Elites- 3,000
Zarbon- 23,000
Freeza- 530,000
King Vegeta: 11,000
Vegeta(Kid): 12,000
Nappa: 4,000

King Piccolo Saga

Goku- 180
--"Match Level"- 120
--Post-God Water- 260
Tien- 180
Roshi- 160
Yajirobe- 130
Krillin- 95

King Piccolo- 220
--Young- 260
Drum- 210
Tambourine- 138
Cymbal- 98
Piano- 7

Kami- 330
Popo- 310

Garlic Jr. Attacks Earth

Goku- 400
--Weighted- 378
Piccolo- 390
--Weighted- 370
Krillin- 206
Gohan (angry)- 1,109

Garlic Jr- 315
--Super Garlic Jr- 630
Nicky- 300
Sansho- 290
Ginger- 270

SAIYAN SAGA

Arrival of Raditz

Goku- 416
--Kamehameha: 924
--Weighted- 396
Piccolo- 408
--Special Beam Cannon- 1,440
--Weighted- 386
Gohan- 2
--Gohan(Angry)- 1,307
Tenshinhan- 250
Krillin- 206
Yamcha- 177
Master Roshi- 139

Raditz- 1,500

Arrival of Nappa and Vegeta

Goku: 8,000
--Kaioken x2: 16,000
--Kaioken x3: 24,000
--Kaioken x4: 32,000
Piccolo: 3,500
Tenshinhan: 1,830
Krillin: 1,770
Yamcha: 1,480
Gohan: 1,000
--Angry- 2,800
Mr Popo: 1,030
Yajirobe: 970
Chaozu: 610
Kami- 220

Vegeta- 18,000
--Oozaru- 180,000
Nappa- 4,000
--Against the Z-fighters- 4,000
--Full Power- 4,000
Saibamen: 1,200

FREEZA SAGA

Prior To Super Long Battle With Freeza

Goku- 90,000
--Kaio-Ken x2- 180,000
--Kaio-Ken x10- 900,000
Vegeta- 24,000
--First Zenkai- 30,000
--Second Zenkai- 250,000
Krillin- 1800
--Initial Potential Unlocked- 13,000
--Potential Unlocked vs Ginyu-Goku- 25,000
Gohan- 1,500
--Initial Potential Unlocked- 14,000
--Potential Unlocked vs Ginyu-Goku- 27,000
Nail- 42,000
Elite Namekian Warriors- 10,000
Namekian Warriors- 3,000

Freeza- 530,000
Zarbon- 23,000
--Transformed- 30,000
Dodoria- 22,000
Cui- 18,000
Freeza Soldiers (Namek village)- 1,300
Freeza Soldiers (common)- 500-1000
Banan- 980
Sūi- 840

Captain Ginyu- 120,000
--Goku's Body- 23,000
Jeice- 43,000
Burter- 42,000
Reccoome- 41,000
Guldo- 6,000

Super Long Battle With Freeza

Goku- 3,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x10- 30,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x20- 60,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 150,000,000
Vegeta- 250,000
--Final Zenkai- 2,200,000
Piccolo- 60,000
--Fused With Nail- 1,020,000
----Without Weights 1,100,000
Gohan- 200,000
Krillin- 75,000

Freeza- 530,000 (first form)
--Second Form- 1,060,000
----Second Form first power up- 1,100,000
----Second Form second power up- 1,200,000
--Third Form- 2,120,000
--Initial Final Form- 3,200,000
--Final Form (50%)- 60,000,000
--Final Form (70%)- 84,000,000
--Final Form (100%)- 120,000,000

CELL SAGA

Arrival of Mecha Freeza

Goku - 4,200,000
--Super Saiyan - 210,000,000
Trunks - 3,200,000
--Super Saiyan - 160,000,000
Piccolo - 5,000,000
Vegeta - 4,300,000

Mecha Freeza - 7,000,000 (suppressed)
--Full Power (unseen)- 140,000,000
King Cold - 6,500,000 (suppressed)
--Full Power (unseen)- 90,000,000

Cooler's Revenge

Goku- 8,000,000 (post zenkai)
--Pre-zenkai- 5,000,000
--Pre zenkai Super Saiyan- 250,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x10 - 80,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x20 - 160,000,000
--Kaio-Ken x20 Kamehameha - 215,000,000
--Super Saiyan - 400,000,000
--Super Kamehameha: 888,000,000
Piccolo - 7,500,000

Cooler (70%, max true form power)- 98,000,000
--50% Power (vs Goku Round 1)- 70,000,000
--Hypothetical Bulked Up 100% Power- 140,000,000
--Fifth Form: 280,000,000
--Supernova: 712,000,000
Salza: 4,250,000
Doore: 3,700,000
Neiz: 3,290,000

Trunks' Bad Future

Future Gohan- 2,800,000
--Super Saiyan: 140,000,000
Future Android 18- 210,000,000
Future Android 17- 222,000,000

Arrival of the Androids

Goku- 10,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 500,000,000
--Sick: >100,000,000
Vegeta- 10,500,000
--Super Saiyan: 525,000,000
Trunks- 3,900,000
--Super Saiyan- 195,000,000
Piccolo- 135,000,000

Android 20- 80,000,000
--Vegeta and Piccolo's ki: 92,000,000
Android 19- 73,000,000
--Vegeta and Goku's ki: 155,000,000
Android 18- 630,000,000
Android 17- 666,000,000
Android 16- 1,900,000,000

Imperfect Cell Shows Up

Imperfect Cell Initial- 600,000,000
--Post-human meal- 1,900,000,000
Super Namek Piccolo: 675,000,000
--Light Grenade- 1,680,000,000

Metal Cooler Invades New Namek

Super Namek Piccolo: 675,000,000
Vegeta- 10,500,000
--Super Saiyan: 525,000,000
Goku- 10,000,000
--Super Saiyan: 500,000,000

Metal Cooler (Initial): 425,000,000
--First Repair: 750,000,000
--Second Repair: 1,300,000,000

Birth of Perfect Cell

Cell- 600,000,000
--Post-human meal- 1,900,000,000
--Semi-Perfect- 3,800,000,000
--Initial Perfect- 7,000,000,000

Vegeta- 70,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 3,500,000,000
--Super Saiyan Grade 2- 5,250,000,000
--Final Flash- 18,000,000,000
Trunks: 63,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 3,150,000,000
--Super Saiyan Grade 2- 4,725,000,000
--Super Saiyan Grade 3- 8,190,000,000

Screw The Rules, I Have Green Hair!

Goku- 260,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 13,000,000,000
Vegeta- 160,000,0000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 8,000,000,000
Trunks- 144,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 7,200,000,000
Gohan- 200,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 10,000,000,000
Piccolo- 5,000,000,000

Broly (Legendary Super Saiyan)- 24,000,000,000

Cell Games

Gohan- 300,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 15,000,000,000
--Hypothetical Super Saiyan + Rage Boost- 22,500,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2 (enraged)- 45,000,000,000
Goku- 280,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 16,000,000,000
--50% Power- 8,000,000,000
--Tired- 4,000,000,000
Vegeta- 160,000,0000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 8,000,000,000
Trunks- 144,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 7,200,000,000
Piccolo- 5,000,000,000

Cell- 600,000,000
--Post-human meal- 1,900,000,000
--Semi-Perfect- 3,800,000,000
--Initial Perfect- 7,000,000,000
--Perfect (against Goku)- 19,000,000,000
--Perfect (full power)- 28,500,000,000
--Super Perfect- 38,000,000,000
Cell Juniors- 9,000,000,000
--Cell Junior that the humans actually hit in filler: 1,000,000

Krillin- 570,000
Tien- 360,000
Yamcha- 298,800

Meanwhile, Back In The Future...

Future Android 18- 210,000,000
Future Android 17- 222,000,000
Initial Imperfect Cell- 600,000,000
Trunks- 144,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 7,200,000,000

Bojack Escapes

Gohan- 300,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 15,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2 Enraged- 40,000,000,000
Vegeta- 160,000,0000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 8,000,000,000
Trunks- 144,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 7,200,000,000
Piccolo- 5,100,000,000

Bojack- 12,000,000,000
--Super Bojack- 24,000,000,000
Bido- 10,000,000,000
Zangya- 8,000,000,000
Bujin- 7,000,000,000
Kogu- 1,500,000,000
--Super Kogu- 3,000,000,000

BUU SAGA

Tournament

Goku- 500,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 25,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 50,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 200,000,000,000
Vegeta- 380,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 19,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 38,000,000,000
--Majin Vegeta (SS2)- 50,000,000,000
Gohan- 300,000,000
--Super Saiyan Full Power- 15,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 2- 30,000,000,000
Eastern Supreme Kai- 11,000,000,000
Piccolo- 6,000,000,000
Trunks (post-ROSAT)- 65,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 3,250,000,000
Goten (post-ROSAT)- 60,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 3,000,000,000
Kibito- 265,000,000

Krillin- 950,000
Tien- 830,000,00

Babidi's Henchmen

Dabura- 32,000,000,000
Yakon- 6,500,000,000
Myster Floor 2 Fighter- 95,000,0000
Pui Pui- 54,000,000
Yamu- 36
Spovovitch- 31

The Many Forms Of Buu

Vegerot/Vegito/Vegetto- 83,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 4,150,000,000,000
Ultimate Gohan- 1,700,000,000,000
Gotenks- 3,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan- 150,000,000,000
--Super Saiyan 3- 1,200,000,000,000
Kibito Kai- 45,600,000,000

Majin Buu- 200,000,000,000 (Pure/Kid)
--Fat Buu- 140,000,000,000
--Good Buu- 60,000,000,000
--Evil Buu- 80,000,000,000
--Super Buu- 1,000,000,000,000
--Buuccolo-- 1,009,250,000,000
--Buutenks-- 2,200,000,000,000
--Buuhan-- 2,700,000,000,000

Mr.Satan- 9

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What is "Arcosian"?

[RandomGuy96]

Oh, sorry. I'm one of those people who think those aliens in that anime filler episode were actually Frieza's race. It's just a convenient name, because I think the other names like "Changeling" sound kind of dumb.

[Zephyr]

Tenshinahan is stated to have surpassed post Divine Water Goku at the 23rd Budokai. Who beat Piccolo Daimao.

He fought evenly with weighted Goku at the 23rd who was = to post divine water Goku in speed, and significantly stronger than post Divine water Goku.

Tenshinhan 23rd speed >> weighted Goku speed = post Divine Water Goku speed > Piccolo Daimao

Tenshinhan 23rd strength ~ weighted Goku strength >> post Divine Water Goku strength > Piccolo Daimao

The 260 BP is non canon and irrelevant.

Could you show me where this is stated? I didn't see it in the strength checker.

And sure, he could be 1:1 on par with weighted-Goku, but that in no way debunks any of the official BPs. This little chart I whipped up, for example, allows the BPs to fit snuggly with Tenshinhan and weighted-Goku bing on par during the 23rd TB:



Re "Canon": Dragon Ball has no official canon, so I don't know what you mean by this.

Re Piccolo v Trunks: Piccolo didn't know SSj Trunks exact ki memorized to a numerical tee, nor did he have his own. And yes, Piccolo trained for 3 years, but that doesn't mean it makes much sense for him to jump from 2nd form Freeza's level to beyond the SSj level. Goku in his base form was far above the 2nd form Freeza level, and he got a power boost on top of that. I don't see how a few years of training can bear fruit of that same magnitude.

[Bussani]

Buu's "Ki is like a lie", it's impossible to gauge his ki properly.

I don't think that's what that line is supposed to mean. It feels more like a Japanese way of saying "his ki is unbelievable" to me.