What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:33 am

Saiga wrote:Or maybe it didn't happen against Cell because Vegeta isn't a half-Saiyan hybrid.
Actually, the rage boost is a trait exclusive to Gohan, not to Saiyan Halflings. Goten & Trunks never displayed rage boosts, neither did Bra in GT. Pan got rage boosts in GT, but it could be a trait inherited from Gohan.

Now for Vegeta in BoG, I believe that what happened to Vegeta is what he theorized about Goku. Vegeta suspected that because Goku was fighting for others, he had gained a mysterious power (which I believe that is related with yuuki and/or shouki), which is why Vegeta couldn't keep up with him, since he was fighting for himself. Vegeta believed that this could be true, but wondered why he couldn't use that power now that he was also fighting for others (Bulma & Trunks). Now what I believe is that due to Vegeta's personality, he can only use that power momentarily, while for Goku, the effect of the power is passive, because of his personality. By fighting for others instead of yourself makes people unleash their true power IMO. And as for why Vegeta didn't use his true power when Trunks was killed, I believe this was because he wasn't a good guy yet like he was in Boo arc.
Besides, shouldn't Vegeta have larger amounts of dormant power compared to Goku? Vegeta was the son of the King, and had enormous power power from his childhood, while Goku was a low-class & born with very low power. Goku surpassed Vegeta because he drank the Super God Water, trained with the gods, and because he was a bigger fighting genius than Vegeta, not because he was born with such power (like Gohan).

All these make sense in my head, and makes things that doesn't makes sense making sense (lol). So, I'll go by these.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Saiga » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:36 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Saiga wrote:Or maybe it didn't happen against Cell because Vegeta isn't a half-Saiyan hybrid.
Actually, the rage boost is a trait exclusive to Gohan, not to Saiyan Halflings. Goten & Trunks never displayed rage boosts, neither did Bra in GT. Pan got rage boosts in GT, but it could be a trait inherited from Gohan.
I know that. :P But Gohan's own rage boosts are attributed to being a half-Saiyan hybrid, Goten and Trunks are just a different kind of hybrid. Although I guess you could argue Trunks received one when he was able to kick Boo away, if you really wanted.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Saiyan Prince Vegeta » Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:39 am

I like that theory DBZGTKOSDH. :D Anything that makes Vegeta seem more amazing I will accept. :lol:
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Draken » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:24 am

Saiyan Prince Vegeta wrote:I like that theory DBZGTKOSDH. :D Anything that makes Vegeta seem more amazing I will accept. :lol:
I theorize that Vegeta is actually the strongest being in all the comic verse and could kick The One Above All out of existence. You accept this?

Not exactly trying to be rude, just showing that that outlook isn't exactly the best outlook. Fanboyism has to stop somewhere!
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Saiyan Prince Vegeta » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:07 am

Damn right. ;)
Nah, it has to be something that's realistic and makes sense, to me that is, and does. :)
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Godo » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:49 am

Saiga wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Saiga wrote:Or maybe it didn't happen against Cell because Vegeta isn't a half-Saiyan hybrid.
Actually, the rage boost is a trait exclusive to Gohan, not to Saiyan Halflings. Goten & Trunks never displayed rage boosts, neither did Bra in GT. Pan got rage boosts in GT, but it could be a trait inherited from Gohan.
I know that. :P But Gohan's own rage boosts are attributed to being a half-Saiyan hybrid, Goten and Trunks are just a different kind of hybrid. Although I guess you could argue Trunks received one when he was able to kick Boo away, if you really wanted.
Maybe the rage boosts work for Gohan since he is a normally reserved and inhibited person, so naturally he won't be able to fully go all out during his fights. Also he lacks some self confidence during some fights.
Goten and Trunks are the clear opposite of that. They don't doubt their power, and since they are just having fun, they go all out, using their power without a second thought.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:29 am

Draken wrote:I theorize that Vegeta is actually the strongest being in all the comic verse and could kick The One Above All out of existence.
Just to let you know, I'm not a Vegeta fan (I like him a lot, but you won't call me a big fanboy). It's just a theory to explain why Vegeta got this random rage boost in BoG.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Post by AnimeMaakuo » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:55 am

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Last edited by AnimeMaakuo on Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:11 pm

AnimeMaakuo wrote:If Bulma got killed, then I'd stop watching the show. :evil:
Then stop, she died in Boo arc. :P
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Post by AnimeMaakuo » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:10 pm

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Last edited by AnimeMaakuo on Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Soppa Saiyjins from Dorgou Ballru Zetto is my favorite transformation everah, especially when Trounksoru did it in front of Seru and when Bejita did it when he faced Jingonigen-hachigo. But for real, I use the FUNi pronunciation. - Soppa Saia People
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by GTx10 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:26 pm

SS1 and SS2 are hard to distinguish nowadays, the two forms are merging...
Goku said Vegeta became a "incredible SS" so perhaps Vegeta was just a really angry SS1. Maybe Vegeta became a Super, SS2 in that moment of anger. In the end it did nothing to better the situation. However it did give Vegeta his "ill never forgive you" moment something the Son family only seems to have.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by SaiyanZ » Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:57 pm

Was it ever explicitly said that he became > SSJ3 Goku? Because wouldn't that contradict what Vegeta said about Goku when fighting Kid Buu, where he said "your natural talent is above mine" or something like that?
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:02 pm

SaiyanZ wrote:Was it ever explicitly said that he became > SSJ3 Goku?
Kame-sennin said that Vegeta had surpassed Goku, and Goku's full power was Super Saiyan 3 at that point.
SaiyanZ wrote:Because wouldn't that contradict what Vegeta said about Goku when fighting Kid Buu, where he said "your natural talent is above mine" or something like that?
No, because Vegeta was talking about his talent in fighting, not his dormant power.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by GTx10 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:10 pm

Old man Roshi's words confuse me. How could angry SS whatever form Vegeta be stronger than SS3 Goku? Maybe its a throwaway just to enhance the mood?
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:12 pm

GTx10 wrote:Old man Roshi's words confuse me. How could angry SS whatever form Vegeta be stronger than SS3 Goku? Maybe its a throwaway just to enhance the mood?
The same way that angry Gohan against 3rd form Freeza could be stronger than Piccolo or Vegeta.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:14 pm

I don't understand why people want to believe that Vegeta was just Super Saiyan, when he could be Super Saiyan 2, and it makes more sense for Vegeta to be SS2. The sparks for SS2/3 are missing all the time in the anime.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Draken » Sun Apr 14, 2013 4:59 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
GTx10 wrote:Old man Roshi's words confuse me. How could angry SS whatever form Vegeta be stronger than SS3 Goku? Maybe its a throwaway just to enhance the mood?
The same way that angry Gohan against 3rd form Freeza could be stronger than Piccolo or Vegeta.
Gohan never really got stronger than them, just got a boost big enough to be within fighting range to catch them off guard. After all he never inflicted damage...
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:04 pm

Draken wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
GTx10 wrote:Old man Roshi's words confuse me. How could angry SS whatever form Vegeta be stronger than SS3 Goku? Maybe its a throwaway just to enhance the mood?
The same way that angry Gohan against 3rd form Freeza could be stronger than Piccolo or Vegeta.
Gohan never really got stronger than them, just got a boost big enough to be within fighting range to catch them off guard. After all he never inflicted damage...
I meant when he blasted 3rd form Freeza with the masenko. For the duration of that attack, due to his rage, he was stronger than Piccolo and Vegeta.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Draken » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:10 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote: I meant when he blasted 3rd form Freeza with the masenko. For the duration of that attack, due to his rage, he was stronger than Piccolo and Vegeta.
Badly worded by me, I mean he got strong enough that he could be within fighting range against Frieza to catch him off guard, but it wasn't stronger than Vegeta/Piccolo. It's like when Piccolo caught final form Frieza off guard. He was NOT stronger than him :P.
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Re: What if vegeta saw bulma get killed

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:14 pm

Draken wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote: I meant when he blasted 3rd form Freeza with the masenko. For the duration of that attack, due to his rage, he was stronger than Piccolo and Vegeta.
Badly worded by me, I mean he got strong enough that he could be within fighting range against Freeza to catch him off guard, but it wasn't stronger than Vegeta/Piccolo. It's like when Piccolo caught final form Freeza off guard. He was NOT stronger than him :P.
You don't think that Gohan surpassed Piccolo and Vegeta with this attack? Freeza had been playing with Piccolo beforehand, and Vegeta at this point was weaker than Freeza's second form. Freeza even looked shocked (scared?) during the attack.
I don't have him being stronger than Freeza. He did manage to repel the attack after all.
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