How come they didn't bring Gohan to fight Kid Buu?

[Darkprince410]

Amuro, I don't understand why you feel adamant to use the anime as an indicator as to how the manga is meant to be, since it has been shown time and again that filler scenes do nothing but contradict what is established in the manga. By your logic, villains are allowed to keep their bodies in the afterlife even though Piccolo (with close ties to the gods of the Dragonball universe due to his merging with Kami) told Vegeta that only those that have deemed themselves worthy are allowed to. After all, it's in the anime, so it must be how the story is meant to go. Likewise, movie 1 must exist in Toriyama's intended storyline since it's tied to the Garlic Jr filler arc, and that's in the anime as well. Outside of a few situations, filler is done without Toriyama's actual input, so there's no way of saying that he intended that what's shown in the anime is what he wanted, since he wasn't involved with it.

You say that Goku's entire apprehension to try and fight Evil Buu with Vegeta's help was because he wanted to protect Vegeta and keep him from being destroyed, and that's the only reason why he wanted to fuse with Vegeta to destroy Evil Buu. Why would he be apprehensive about letting Vegeta to help him in defeating Evil Buu then, but was willing to let Vegeta hold Pure Buu off for a minute? In the first situation, Goku would be right there fighting with Vegeta, so you couldn't say that he wouldn't be able to intercept Buu if Buu tried to attack Vegeta. Likewise, why would he want to "save" Vegeta by potentially permanently fusing with him again? If he were able to do it without Vegeta's help (like how he could with Pure Buu), why would he instead insist multiple times that they couldn't do it without fusing, even upon leaving his body and regaining their size. He was willing to fuse with Vegeta using the Potaras again, and fusing with him with the Potaras would be as far away from "saving him" as possible, since he'd never be able to be brought back to his normal self. Granted, he'd be alive in some sense, but he wouldn't be Vegeta. It would, in a sense, be killing him if they fused with the Potaras again, so it'd be more logical to assume that if Goku wanted to protect Vegeta, fusing with the Potaras would be one of the last things he'd want.

[Pan-Pan]

Size of a ki attack and size of an individual are two different things though. We know the size of a ki attack usually means its strong. We also know that characters who can sense ki don't judge an individual on their size unless their ki is heavily suppressed.

And the muscle mass of a fighter usually means he's strong. We also know that characters who can sense ki don't judge a ki attack on its size but on its power.

There is simply no reason for Goku to lie inside Boo

I already told you Goku lied in order to use Fusion with Vegeta.

If you think Goku lied about not being able to fight Evil Boo to spare Vegeta's feelings then why didn't Goku lie with Pure Boo and say he couldn't beat him either?

I didn't say that's what I think. I said that's what Vegeta probably thought.

[Darkprince410]

There is simply no reason for Goku to lie inside Boo

I already told you Goku lied in order to use Fusion with Vegeta.

In my above post, I pointed out why him lying to Vegeta in order to fuse with him doesn't make any sense.

1) Given how he was planning it, he was taking into account that they'd regain their size, and thus their full power, once they escaped Buu (so it can't be a matter of him going by their reduced ki while shrunk), and that even with that full power available to both of them, they couldn't win fighting him normally.

2) He knew that Vegeta was already aware of Super Saiya-jin 3, and as a result wasn't going to hold back on using that just for Vegeta's pride.

3) Fusing with Vegeta in order to "protect" him as you and Amuro have pointed out just doesn't work, since he was willing to let Vegeta, who was still dead at the time, fight Pure Buu on his own for one minute while he gathered up his ki. If Pure Buu is stronger than Evil Buu, then why would he suddenly be less concerned with Vegeta's safety once they reach Kaioushin's planet? At least when it came to the both of them fighting Evil Buu, Goku would have been able to intercept any attacks made towards Vegeta, and would likely be Buu's primary target.

If the "protecting" him was in regards to keeping him from returning to the afterlife once his "time was up", that doesn't make any sense either. Enma specifically said that Vegeta was a special case when it came to giving him a body, since that was normally something only those deemed worthy (like Goku) are allowed, and no indication was made that he had a 24 hour time limit like Goku did. Vegeta's "time limit" was more a "You're there until it's dead or you cease to exist" sort of situation. Even if there was a 24 hour time limit, fusing with the dance would at most give him an extra 30 minutes, but more importantly, why would Goku try to "protect" him by permanently fusing with him? If they were permanently fused, then Vegeta would never be able to be wished back to life with the Dragonballs, and therefore would actually be doing the opposite of protecting him, since he'd cease to exist as a person.

When it all comes down to it, Goku had no reason to lie to Vegeta. He had no reason to hold back on using Super Saiya-jin 3, he showed that he wasn't THAT concerned with Vegeta's safety, and I strongly doubt he'd permanently fuse with him again, cutting off all hopes of him ever being wished back to life, unless he felt it was the only way they could win.

[Draken]

And the muscle mass of a fighter usually means he's strong. We also know that characters who can sense ki don't judge a ki attack on its size but on its power.

Great so it's settled? Buff Buu > Pure Buu cause he has a bigger muscle mass

[RandomGuy96]

There is one very simple thing that is being missed here. Even if you assume that Goku was lying about everything (with no evidence), you still have to address Gotenks.

Goku sent Gotenks against Fat Buu. He did this despite knowing that a Super Saiyan 2 that was equal to him got completely demolished by Fat Buu. He also thought that Gotenks would never in a million years reach SS3, as he was VERY surprised when he saw it happen. So he's expecting SS Gotenks to be able to beat (or at least have a chance against) the guy who demolished Majin Vegeta, his equal in the same forms- and he's absolutely sure about this: http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 40&page=63. Unless you assume that Goku REALLY hates those two kids and wanted to see them get killed, SS Gotenks > SS2 Goku is pretty unavoidable. So Gotenks is over twice as strong as Goku.

Then, using Super Saiyan 3, Goku proceeds to fight evenly with Kid Buu- something he could not have done if he was as strong as Super Buu, who was equal to Gotenks, who was over twice as strong as Goku. This means:

Vegerot >>>>> Buuhan > Buutenks > Ultimate Gohan > Super = SS3 Gotenks >> Pure Buu = SS3 Goku > SS Gotenks > Fat Buu > SS2 Goku = SS2 Majin Vegeta > SS2 Vegeta

Is the hierarchy of the relevant Buu Saga characters.

I mean hell, I shouldn't even have to post that. Goku said that he couldn't beat Super Buu but that he could beat Kid Buu. That's about as simple as power statements get.

[Amuro Ray]

Your theory is weak at best, especially when it assumes that Gotenks is supposedly stronger than/as strong as Buu. Goku admitted to Piccolo that it was a gamble and wasn't entirely sure it would work, nothing is ever definitively proven.

[Darkprince410]

It's not that weak of a theory given that absolutely nothing that comes up to contradict it. He was expecting Gotenks, who at best would have access to just the regular Super Saiya-jin form as far as he was concerned, to be able to take out an enemy that was shown to be far stronger than any Super Saiya-jin 2. It may have been a gamble, but it was a gamble he had confidence in.

Chapter: 472 (DBZ 278), P9.4
Context: after explaining that Fusion lasts 30 minutes
Goku: “With these two [Goten and Trunks], if they just manage to perform Fusion successfully, I think they’ll definitely be able to defeat [Boo] within 30 minutes. Fusion is just that extreme.”

Chapter: 477 (DBZ 283), P11.8
Context: Chi-Chi thinks Goten will get killed by Boo
Goku: “Don’t worry. If he perfects the technique he’s trying now, he definitely ain’t gonna lose.”

He knows how powerful that the fusion will be from his experience with the people from Metamor in the afterlife, and he knows how powerful the boys are while Super Saiya-jin. It wouldn't be hard for him to assess how powerful Ssj Gotenks should be if the fusion is performed successfully. Even if you don't adhere to the notion that Ssj Gotenks by himself should be more powerful than Ssj3 Goku, by all accounts he should easily be more powerful than Ssj2 Goku. As such, given the known multipliers of the Super Saiya-jin forms from the Super Exciting Guide, we get that Super Saiya-jin 3 Gotenks should be at least twice as strong as Super Saiya-jin 3 Goku (and that's before you take into account the Room of Spirit and Time training).

Ssj Gotenks (pre-RoSaT) > Ssj2 Goku

Ssj3 Goku = 4x Ssj2 Goku (Since Ssj3 is stated to be four times as powerful as Ssj2)

Ssj3 Gotenks = 8x Ssj Gotenks (Since Ssj2 is twice as strong as Ssj, and Ssj3 is four times that of Ssj2)

Ssj3 Gotenks > 8x Ssj2 Goku (Given Ssj Gotenks being stronger than Ssj2 Goku)

Ssj3 Gotenks > 2x Ssj3 Goku

[Pan-Pan]

This has already been discussed. Gotenks simply doesn't have the same multipliers as Goku. Otherwise the consequence would be that South Kaioshin would be many times stronger than Pure Boo, which is ridiculous.

Draken --> What is settled is that Goku judged Boo's ball on its size, and it's the same as judging a character on his size.

In my above post, I pointed out why him lying to Vegeta in order to fuse with him doesn't make any sense.

Goku said himself he was keeping his SS3 as a last resort. What's more, he has to protect Goten, Trunks, Gohan, Piccolo and Vegeta. If he merges with Vegeta, he would be stronger and it would be easier. That's why he chose to use Fusion.

[Darkprince410]

This has already been discussed. Gotenks simply doesn't have the same multipliers as Goku. Otherwise the consequence would be that South Kaioshin would be many times stronger than Pure Boo, which is ridiculous.

Draken --> What is settled is that Goku judged Boo's ball on its size, and it's the same as judging a character on his size.

In my above post, I pointed out why him lying to Vegeta in order to fuse with him doesn't make any sense.

Goku said himself he was keeping his SS3 as a last resort. What's more, he has to protect Goten, Trunks, Gohan, Piccolo and Vegeta. If he merges with Vegeta, he would be stronger and it would be easier. That's why he chose to use Fusion.

You can't say that Gotenks doesn't have the same multipliers as Goku just because you don't want it to work that way. There's nothing to say that the multipliers for the Super Exciting Guide are unique to Goku and only Goku, rather than being indicative of the transformed states of all Saiya-jin. We've also established that there's precedence for South Kaioushin to be stronger than Pure Buu, since the only factor supporting that he isn't (That it took Gohan as a Super Saiya-jin to pull out the Z Sword) is vague at best, given that the dialogue leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not even tried removing it.

So he isn't willing to use Super Saiya-jin 3 to defeat Evil Buu and is instead wanting to permanently fuse with Vegeta (thus preventing Vegeta from ever being wished back to life), but wants to use Super Saiya-jin 3 on Pure Buu (whom you claim is stronger) instead of fusing with Vegeta, when the stakes are even higher? That doesn't make any sense at all. You are saying that when Gohan and the boys are simply unconscious (and could wake up at any time), he's not willing to use Super Saiya-jin 3 to defeat Evil Buu, but when he's the ONLY one powerful enough to face off against Pure Buu (due to Gohan and the boys being dead), he'd rather use Super Saiya-jin 3 than fuse with Vegeta. If Pure Buu were stronger than Evil Buu, as you claim he is, then Goku should be more insistent to fuse with Vegeta then more than anything else, since if he lost, there wouldn't be anyone left alive to stop Buu.

His willingness to let Vegeta stall Pure Buu for a minute proves that he isn't THAT concerned about Vegeta's safety.

There's no conceivable reason for him to lie to Vegeta about their chances against Evil Buu, and his actions and attitude when it comes to Pure Buu supports this.

[Hitiro]

I would like any of the people who think Pure Boo > Evil Boo to answer this question.

Considering you guys believe Goku went out of his way to lie about not being able to beat Evil Boo just to fuse with Vegeta, and considering you assume Goku is strong enough to beat Pure Boo and Evil Boo. Explain to me why Goku didn't lie about Pure Boo too and try to get Vegeta to fuse with him? One of you mentioned earlier you believe the power increase Goku sensed, and likely Vegeta sensed it too, was when Boo was returning to his original form; Pure Boo(Even though we know that the power increase was him becoming Buff Boo). So it stands to reason Goku and Vegeta know Pure Boo's power. Goku also hadn't admitted that he could have beaten Fat Boo yet and even if they are assuming his strength based on his size they would still not think he's weaker than the Fat Boo. So please tell me, why didn't Goku just say "Vegeta! He's changed quite a lot but I still can't beat him! We have to fuse!"? Seriously, I can't find a reason for why he'd lie about not being able to beat the other two Boo's and then all of a sudden say he can take Pure Boo.

[Pan-Pan]

You can't say that Gotenks doesn't have the same multipliers as Goku just because you don't want it to work that way. There's nothing to say that the multipliers for the Super Exciting Guide are unique to Goku and only Goku, rather than being indicative of the transformed states of all Saiya-jin. We've also established that there's precedence for South Kaioushin to be stronger than Pure Buu, since the only factor supporting that he isn't (That it took Gohan as a Super Saiya-jin to pull out the Z Sword) is vague at best, given that the dialogue leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not even tried removing it.

Super exciting guides are bullshits. Nothing is stated in the manga about such multipliers. And you can't say South Kaioshin is stronger than a SS3 just because you want he to be so. It doesn't make sense for the South Kaioshin to not try removing the Z-sword.

So he isn't willing to use Super Saiya-jin 3 to defeat Evil Buu and is instead wanting to permanently fuse with Vegeta (thus preventing Vegeta from ever being wished back to life), but wants to use Super Saiya-jin 3 on Pure Buu (whom you claim is stronger) instead of fusing with Vegeta, when the stakes are even higher? That doesn't make any sense at all. You are saying that when Gohan and the boys are simply unconscious (and could wake up at any time), he's not willing to use Super Saiya-jin 3 to defeat Evil Buu, but when he's the ONLY one powerful enough to face off against Pure Buu (due to Gohan and the boys being dead), he'd rather use Super Saiya-jin 3 than fuse with Vegeta. If Pure Buu were stronger than Evil Buu, as you claim he is, then Goku should be more insistent to fuse with Vegeta then more than anything else, since if he lost, there wouldn't be anyone left alive to stop Buu.

When it comes to Pure Boo, Goku knew Vegeta doesn't want to fuse whether it's the potalas or the fusion dance. Moreover, Goku underestimated Pure Boo at first. And, like you pointed out, Gohan and the others are dead, so there is no more unconscious people to protect.

His willingness to let Vegeta stall Pure Buu for a minute proves that he isn't THAT concerned about Vegeta's safety.

He needed for this minute. I don't get what you're trying to say here.

Explain to me why Goku didn't lie about Pure Boo too and try to get Vegeta to fuse with him?

Already answered. Vegeta already had refused both ways to fuse at this point. So it's useless to ask him the same question over and over again.

[MDSTSSJ]

You can't say that Gotenks doesn't have the same multipliers as Goku just because you don't want it to work that way. There's nothing to say that the multipliers for the Super Exciting Guide are unique to Goku and only Goku, rather than being indicative of the transformed states of all Saiya-jin. We've also established that there's precedence for South Kaioushin to be stronger than Pure Buu, since the only factor supporting that he isn't (That it took Gohan as a Super Saiya-jin to pull out the Z Sword) is vague at best, given that the dialogue leaves it ambiguous as to whether or not even tried removing it.

Super exciting guides are bullshits. Nothing is stated in the manga about such multipliers. And you can't say South Kaioshin is stronger than a SS3 just because you want he to be so. It doesn't make sense for the South Kaioshin to not try removing the Z-sword.

Super Exciting Guides may not work for you and I respect that but, for me and plenty of people it works.

There is no final evidence that South Kaioshin is stronger than Pure Boo and much less than SSJ3 Kakarotto. South Kaio is stronger but don´t mean anything in tems of comparison, much less if he could not move the Z sword.

[Darkprince410]

Super exciting guides are bullshits. Nothing is stated in the manga about such multipliers. And you can't say South Kaioshin is stronger than a SS3 just because you want he to be so. It doesn't make sense for the South Kaioshin to not try removing the Z-sword.

When it comes to Pure Boo, Goku knew Vegeta doesn't want to fuse whether it's the potalas or the fusion dance. Moreover, Goku underestimated Pure Boo at first. And, like you pointed out, Gohan and the others are dead, so there is no more unconscious people to protect.

He needed for this minute. I don't get what you're trying to say here.

Already answered. Vegeta already had refused both ways to fuse at this point. So it's useless to ask him the same question over and over again.

1) Considering Toriyama himself was very much involved with the creation of the Super Exciting Guide, saying it is irrelevant is saying that the word of the author is irrelevant. I leave it open that South Kaioushin could be stronger than Pure Buu simply because there's not enough information to say for certain either way. The manga doesn't say that he tried removing the Z Sword, and furthermore, why would he want/need to? The legend behind the Z Sword involves becoming the strongest in the universe, but what would a peace-loving Kaioushin need with being the strongest in the universe if his strength is already enough for the situations he deals with?

2) Vegeta was against the idea of fusing, regardless of the enemy they were facing. He was sooner willing to die again and cease to exist than fuse with Goku when it came to Gohan Buu, and only begrudgingly relented once he learned that Buu had killed Bulma and the others. Even knowing that Vegeta didn't want to fuse with him using either method, Goku still openly berated him for crushing the Potara when it came to facing Evil Buu, so when it came to Evil Buu, Goku was hoping that Vegeta would relent again. When it came to Pure Buu though, he felt that it wasn't needed. Furthermore, he didn't underestimate Pure Buu's strength at all. The only thing he underestimated was Buu's stamina, as he anticipated that he'd be able to do more damage to him than he had.

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P12.1
Context: after Goku fights pure Boo for awhile
Goku: “…Dammit…! Like I thought, even if I keep doing the same thing, that bastard’s stamina doesn’t fall…! He just returns to being good as new right away…”

His willingness to let Vegeta hop in there to fight Pure Buu for that minute shows that he wasn't that concerned for Vegeta's safety, and by extension the safety of Gohan and the others. If Gohan and the others died, then they could easily be wished back with the Dragonballs, but if Vegeta were to be destroyed, he'd cease to exist entirely. If he was concerned with Vegeta's safety as you claim, then when it came to it, Goku should have at least suggested they fuse again rather than let Vegeta try to stall him for a minute. Even if Vegeta said no again, that'd at least give some indication that Goku was concerned for his safety.

3) Vegeta refused to fuse with him the moment that he showed up, and relented later when Goku convinced him there was no other way.

[VegettoEX]

I certainly don't have a problem with anyone disregarding guide book statements and relying exclusively on the manga, but if you're going to come to a head about it that way, you're going to just have to shake hands and agree to disagree on it rather than go back and forth on something that's never going to be compromised on.

[Hitiro]

Super exciting guides are bullshits. Nothing is stated in the manga about such multipliers. And you can't say South Kaioshin is stronger than a SS3 just because you want he to be so. It doesn't make sense for the South Kaioshin to not try removing the Z-sword.

I'm sorry but this is calling the kettle black. You're saying "You can't say South Kaioshin is stronger than a SSJ3 just because you want him to be so." Yet you are doing the exact same thing with SSJ3 Gotenks, you want him to be weaker than SSJ3 Goku because you want Pure Boo to be the most powerful of the Boo's. So you start saying things like "well the multiplier for a SSJ3 that's fused is weaker than an unfused SSJ3." That right there is a baseless opinion you're using to try and justify your own beliefs. At least with the South Kaioshin there is at least some reasonable thought that he must be strong enough to give Pure Boo a hard enough time to force Pure Boo into absorbing him. That is a generally good assumption. It may not make sense for the South Kaioshin to not try removing the Z-Sword but you know there are mistakes in the manga, right? Akira Toriyama isn't infallible, especially in the Boo arc where he was just trying to get the serialisation over and done with. The same thing can be said for the wish to bring back every good person since before the morning of the tournament and no character questioning why Gohan wasn't revived if he was dead, which we know he wasn't. You can make justifications of this all you want but at the end of the day somebody would have mentioned something, it was just a sloppily written scene.

When it comes to Pure Boo, Goku knew Vegeta doesn't want to fuse whether it's the potalas or the fusion dance. Moreover, Goku underestimated Pure Boo at first. And, like you pointed out, Gohan and the others are dead, so there is no more unconscious people to protect.

When did Goku ever underestimate Pure Boo? I don't recall him saying such a thing. The only thing I remember Goku underestimating is the use of SSJ3 while he's alive.

His willingness to let Vegeta stall Pure Buu for a minute proves that he isn't THAT concerned about Vegeta's safety.

He needed for this minute. I don't get what you're trying to say here.

What he's getting at is if Pure Boo is stronger than Evil Boo who is more powerful than the Fat Boo which basically wiped the floor with SSJ2 Vegeta then Goku would never entertain the idea of letting Vegeta fight him for a whole minute. He would be a lot more concerned for Vegeta's safety if Pure Boo was that powerful.

Explain to me why Goku didn't lie about Pure Boo too and try to get Vegeta to fuse with him?

Already answered. Vegeta already had refused both ways to fuse at this point. So it's useless to ask him the same question over and over again.

I don't see how it is useless, Vegeta rejected Goku's pleas for fusion numerous times and Goku still kept asking. Vegeta refused the Potara the first time only to agree on it when Goku told him about his family, he refused a second time inside Boo and then a further third time in Boo when Goku suggested the fusion dance. If Pure Boo was so much more powerful than Evil Boo then Goku would have lied again like you said.

[Draken]

I certainly don't have a problem with anyone disregarding guide book statements and relying exclusively on the manga, but if you're going to come to a head about it that way, you're going to just have to shake hands and agree to disagree on it rather than go back and forth on something that's never going to be compromised on.

Definitely have to agree to disagree on this when the opponents are blatantly disregarding everything against their arguments and saying stuff like "That doesn't work because BULLSHIT" etc etc.

Another thing for the fusion, taking Toei into account. In Fusion Reborn, Vegeta refused fusion over and over. Guess what? Goku kept asking and asking, and then Vegeta relented. This was before the fight against Pure Buu taking into account the fact that both of them were dead. So there is precedence, just like with the Potara fusion in the manga. Honestly, just agree to disagree and admit that your viewpoint is NOT the only viewpoint (I'm looking at you Amuro Ray). I've asked this stalemate weeks before, Amuro refused to concede he could possibly, even with a shadow of a doubt, be wrong, because he's just "that confident".

[Amuro Ray]

Who the hell enters an arguement thinking they are wrong?

[VegettoEX]

Who the hell enters an arguement thinking they are wrong?

Plenty of scientists and researchers. It's great to be proven wrong and then have gained a greater understanding in the process with new things to test and explore.

Several of you already have strikes against your accounts. I don't understand why it is you're insistent upon making it so that you can no longer participate in these discussions when you clearly get something out of being here and participating.

[Pan-Pan]

The manga doesn't say that he tried removing the Z Sword, and furthermore, why would he want/need to? The legend behind the Z Sword involves becoming the strongest in the universe, but what would a peace-loving Kaioushin need with being the strongest in the universe if his strength is already enough for the situations he deals with?

Then explain to me why the others Kaioshins tried. They were peaceful and much stronger than Freeza too. In general, when there is a legend, people are curious to see if the legend is true. Furthermore, the Z-sword would have been helpful to fight against Boo. I don't see any reason why South Kaioshin wouldn't have tried.

Even knowing that Vegeta didn't want to fuse with him using either method, Goku still openly berated him for crushing the Potara when it came to facing Evil Buu, so when it came to Evil Buu, Goku was hoping that Vegeta would relent again.

All I see is that Goku berated Vegeta because it would've been much easier if they had fused.

Goku (talking to Vegeta): “Di-didn’t I tell ya to wear your Potara?! Th-this is why! If we could just go outside and merge, then this kind of guy would be an easy victory!”

Goku should have at least suggested they fuse again rather than let Vegeta try to stall him for a minute.

The potalas are broken and I doubt Boo would let them dance.

I'm sorry but this is calling the kettle black. [...] That right there is a baseless opinion you're using to try and justify your own beliefs.

Ok, your assumption is baseless and so is mine. I guess we are equal. The difference is that you first used it as an argument, and I only argued against.

It may not make sense for the South Kaioshin to not try removing the Z-Sword but you know there are mistakes in the manga, right? Akira Toriyama isn't infallible

You know your baseless assumption doesn't make sense but you think you're right all the same because, well, there are mistakes in the manga... No, it doesn't work like that.

When did Goku ever underestimate Pure Boo? I don't recall him saying such a thing. The only thing I remember Goku underestimating is the use of SSJ3 while he's alive.

Ok, he overestimated himself instead of underestimating Boo, which leads to the same result : Goku failed when he thought he could win.

I don't see how it is useless, Vegeta rejected Goku's pleas for fusion numerous times and Goku still kept asking. Vegeta refused the Potara the first time only to agree on it when Goku told him about his family, he refused a second time inside Boo and then a further third time in Boo when Goku suggested the fusion dance. If Pure Boo was so much more powerful than Evil Boo then Goku would have lied again like you said.

Vegeta: “Anyway, I thought I told you that I’m not going to merge with you a second time.”

[Amuro Ray]

Who the hell enters an arguement thinking they are wrong?

Plenty of scientists and researchers. It's great to be proven wrong and then have gained a greater understanding in the process with new things to test and explore.

Several of you already have strikes against your accounts. I don't understand why it is you're insistent upon making it so that you can no longer participate in these discussions when you clearly get something out of being here and participating.

I think we have a civil discussion going on, why saber rattling?