Dragon Ball Impact on Shonen

[DonZ]

I always read something like "Dragon Ball is the father of Shonen" and "Inspired One Piece and Naruto". I can see the impact & how it inspired these two, but I can't see how DB changed the Shonen genre, aside from Goku's character (the funny, stupid guy who always hungry, and get strong when he's serious). Is there anything that changed in Shonen manga after Dragon Ball? How did Dragon Ball bring new ideas to the Shonen genre?

[DBwad]

Well for one, hair styles in most Shonen nowadays are based off of the "Goku"

[Hellspawn28]

I'm not sure if Dragon Ball can be called the "Dragon Ball is the father of Shonen manga/anime". I'm pretty sure there are older Shonen series that most likely made a bigger impact then Dragon Ball did.

[Pretorious]

This is a good question and I kept telling myself I'd ask it some day on this forum. Was Dragon Ball the first shonen series that used that style of ki attacks? Or to use time skips? Is it the first series where the characters continually age and have children partway through (not as an epilogue), and the new generation has a major impact on the story? Or first to have a pervy martial arts master?

Or was it not the first in any of these areas, but the most popular and influential? Like how Star Wars wasn't the first space fantasy, but clearly influenced shows like Battlestar Galactica, Firefly, and so on? My guess is it's more like that.

EDIT: Maybe another good analogy besides Star Wars is Gundam. There were mecha shows before Gundam, but it changed the entire genre. Is Dragon Ball like that?

[B]

Well, look at what was running in Weekly Shonen Jump at the same time as Dragon Ball, then look at it now.

[NeoKING]

I ask myself the same thing at times. Sometimes, I wonder what made Dragon Ball as great as it was.

[Pretorious]

Well, look at what was running in Weekly Shonen Jump at the same time as Dragon Ball, then look at it now.

What was running in Shonen Jump at the time?

[Gyt Kaliba]

What was running in Shonen Jump at the time?

Hmm...*browses Wikipedia* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_se ... 8Dnen_Jump

Just going off of the bigger titles I've actually heard of, there was City Hunter, Saint Seiya, JoJo's Bizzare Adventure, Cyborg Grandpa G, Video Girl Ai, Slam Dunk, Yu Yu Hakusho, Ninku, DNA2, Captain Tsubasa, Rurouni Kenshin, Shadow Lady, and Level E, all in various states of starting or ending during Dragon Ball's run.

[theoriginalbilis]

Fist of the North Star (Hokuto no Ken) was pretty much the big one that kicked off the "Shonen Jump" style and tropes that almost every subsequent shonen series afterwards has used to some extent. Between FOTNS, Saint Seiya, and Dragon Ball... those three titles definitely had a significant influence on modern shonen series.

[tinlunlau]

I predict future topic on upcoming kanzenshuu podcast.
Who's with me here?

Back on topic, many prominent Shonen Jump titles were very influential to the impact of Shonen Jump titles today. Hokuto No Ken, Saint Seiya, Dragon Ball just to name a few. Then there was Captain Tsubasa which paved the way for sports titles like Slam Dunk and for a better recent example, "Eyeshield 21". The 80s was very important in terms of manga influences.

[Mewzard]

Fist of the North Star (Hokuto no Ken) was pretty much the big one that kicked off the "Shonen Jump" style and tropes that almost every subsequent shonen series afterwards has used to some extent. Between FOTNS, Saint Seiya, and Dragon Ball... those three titles definitely had a significant influence on modern shonen series.

Agreed. Those were all big series at the time. In fact, they were the top 3 Jump Comics in 1987 if this vid is to be believed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIPIzB4AekA#t=7m40s

Between those, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure (which is still ongoing), Kinnikuman, Dr. Slump, and Ring ni Kakero wrapping up, 80s Jump was just amazing. 1987 alone had WSJ wrapping up Fist of the North Star and Kinnikuman, starting Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, and continuing Dragon Ball and Saint Seiya. That's a nigh perfect lineup of Shonen.

But yeah, Dragon Ball's not the father of Shonen. I'd Osamu Tezuka, the God of Manga, was the father of Shonen. He was doing Shonen back in the 40s (and went on to make Shojo comics, Seinen comics, comics of all themes and dealing with just about every major issue one could have in life back in the day...those 150,000 pages of manga didn't make themselves *and that's ignoring the countless anime he worked on, when popularizing the genre*).

But there's no denying that Dragon Ball had an influence on Shonen. Then again, I believe all the above manga I listed did as well (and before all of them, Tezuka certainly inspired several generations).

[kei17]

It's his art what was revolutionary. He was the first mangaka who used to be a graphic artist, and his art style was overwhelmingly stylish at the time that it stranded out from other classical shonen styled artists. Osamu Akimoto, the author of Kochikame, said that over half of the works that amateurs sent to the editorial department of Shonen Jump had had very Toriyama-esque art.

Incidentally, even so called "SD" is one of his inventions. He put Masked Rider and Gundam in SD style in Dr. Slump and it strongly inspired other artists, then the SD Gundam series was officially born.

[Wobbuffet]

Well, look at what was running in Weekly Shonen Jump at the same time as Dragon Ball, then look at it now.

What was running in Shonen Jump at the time?

Before Dragon Ball: http://imageshack.us/a/img594/1198/imagem2md.jpg
The same time as Dragon Ball: http://imageshack.us/a/img831/5648/imagem3t.jpg
After Dragon Ball: http://imageshack.us/a/img651/59/imagem4rl.jpg

Cool series everywhere, though I think that the best series were published with Dragon Ball.
Yes, that may be biased.

One thing that we can tell is that the protagonists became thinner after Dragon Ball. After all, Goku was in an action series, but looked like a comedy character. Kinnikuman did that before, but the protagonist was as bulky as others from the same time.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Before Dragon Ball: http://imageshack.us/a/img594/1198/imagem2md.jpg
The same time as Dragon Ball: http://imageshack.us/a/img831/5648/imagem3t.jpg
After Dragon Ball: http://imageshack.us/a/img651/59/imagem4rl.jpg

It's somewhat hilarious to look at those three different covers and realize that the cop from Kochikame is on all three, and is STILL kicking, heh. I really wish we got some kind of opportunity to check out that series here in the states.

[Pretorious]

Incidentally, even so called "SD" is one of his inventions. He put Masked Rider and Gundam in SD style in Dr. Slump and it strongly inspired other artists, then the SD Gundam series was officially born.

For real? That is utterly fascinating, and I never would have guessed it. I agree that there should be a section on Kanzenshuu devoted to Dragon Ball/Toriyama's influence. (And for that matter, a Toriyama biography...or am I just not seeing these sections?).

Man, Yu-Gi-Oh's art sure has a lot of Toriyama influence. It never occurred to me until this thread.

[DonZ]

Incidentally, even so called "SD" is one of his inventions. He put Masked Rider and Gundam in SD style in Dr. Slump and it strongly inspired other artists, then the SD Gundam series was officially born.

For real? That is utterly fascinating, and I never would have guessed it. I agree that there should be a section on Kanzenshuu devoted to Dragon Ball/Toriyama's influence. (And for that matter, a Toriyama biography...or am I just not seeing these sections?).

Man, Yu-Gi-Oh's art sure has a lot of Toriyama influence. It never occurred to me until this thread.

What is "SD" ?

[Gyt Kaliba]

What is "SD" ?

SD = Super Deformed. Think chibi artwork for example (or hey, more specifically, Dragon Ball SD! That manga finally has a use as an example heh. ). And I also didn't realize that Toriyama had sort of been the forefather of that artstyle, that's pretty cool.

[DonZ]

Incidentally, even so called "SD" is one of his inventions. He put Masked Rider and Gundam in SD style in Dr. Slump and it strongly inspired other artists, then the SD Gundam series was officially born.

I agree that there should be a section on Kanzenshuu devoted to Dragon Ball/Toriyama's influence. (And for that matter, a Toriyama biography...or am I just not seeing these sections?).

That must happen!
i still want to know what Toriyama invented beside SD and Goku's character, about that .. was there any Shonen manga hero who had the same exact personlity of Goku's ? i mean i can't think of any .. Astro Boy, Kenshiro, Yusuke, Kenshin .. no one had it.
i do think Goku's personality is something Toriyama invented. which is great .. cuz almost every Shonen manga hero has that personality (Luffy, Naruto, Natsu .. and others)

[Pretorious]

That must happen!
i still want to know what Toriyama invented beside SD and Goku's character, about that .. was there any Shonen manga hero who had the same exact personlity of Goku's ? i mean i can't think of any .. Astro Boy, Kenshiro, Yusuke, Kenshin .. no one had it.
i do think Goku's personality is something Toriyama invented. which is great .. cuz almost every Shonen manga hero has that personality (Luffy, Naruto, Natsu .. and others)

I think there is enough of a difference in Goku and Naruto's personality. Mainly, Goku is charming, naive, and nice, and Naruto is an obnoxious, egotistical brat. I actually think Naruto is much more similar to little Trunks. I don't know about Luffy though, because I've not read/seen much of One Piece. But I'd bet the overeating thing comes from Goku. And the whole "I'm going to be the best ninja/pirate/whatever" isn't a Goku characteristic either (not that you said it was, but I thought maybe it may have crossed someone's mind). That is more of a Vegeta thing. Goku is happy when he meets stronger fighters.

EDIT: Naruto being a big crazy fox probably was inspired by Goku being a big crazy monkey though. Plus his color scheme is just like super Saiyan Goku.

[DonZ]

That must happen!
i still want to know what Toriyama invented beside SD and Goku's character, about that .. was there any Shonen manga hero who had the same exact personlity of Goku's ? i mean i can't think of any .. Astro Boy, Kenshiro, Yusuke, Kenshin .. no one had it.
i do think Goku's personality is something Toriyama invented. which is great .. cuz almost every Shonen manga hero has that personality (Luffy, Naruto, Natsu .. and others)

I think there is enough of a difference in Goku and Naruto's personality. Mainly, Goku is charming, naive, and nice, and Naruto is an obnoxious, egotistical brat. I actually think Naruto is much more similar to little Trunks. I don't know about Luffy though, because I've not read/seen much of One Piece. But I'd bet the overeating thing comes from Goku. And the whole "I'm going to be the best ninja/pirate/whatever" isn't a Goku characteristic either (not that you said it was, but I thought maybe it may have crossed someone's mind). That is more of a Vegeta thing. Goku is happy when he meets stronger fighters.

EDIT: Naruto being a big crazy fox probably was inspired by Goku being a big crazy monkey though. Plus his color scheme is just like super Saiyan Goku.

I agree on Naruto, he isn't like Goku anymore, he used to be. in Shippuden he changed so much .. to the worse. now he's just a retarded teenager >_> i think Kishimoto (Naruto's author) did say he wanted to make Naruto as naive and charming as Goku.
now about Goku and Luffy .. the similarities between these two are just too much. just watch One Piece and you'll get it.