Base Saiyans and Freeza

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta admitted that he'd have a lot trouble in x500 gravity (to Pui Pui) and Trunks wasn't able to stand in x150 gravity without Super Saiyan. Therefore Freeza pwns the Buu Saga SS2 Vegeta and Goku at 100% power.

Vegeta didn't say anything like that in the manga.

Chapter: 449 (DBZ 255), P11.2-3
Context: after Vegeta and Pui-Pui are teleported to Planet Zun
Pui-Pui: “Haah, haah, this is it for you! Th-the gravity here is 10 times that of Earth…! I was raised here!”
Vegeta: “So what?...I can’t even feel a mere x10 gravity…”

Oh. In the anime (or maybe just the dub?) he said that Pui Pui might have an advantage in x500 gravity. Any statement on what his gravity limit was in the manga?

[hleV]

I believe in the manga we only see that Vegeta asks Dr. Brief to build a Gravity Room that could increase the gravity 300 times. Later we see him train in the Gravity Room, but unknown under what gravity. And that's before the artificial humans show up. Then finally we see him training as a SS under 150g with Trunks.

[RandomGuy96]

Furthermore, if power level scales with gravity feats... well I'll just let TV Tropes take over for this one:

A major plot point in the series is the characters using multiplied gravity for massive strength boosts in a short time. Goku Trains at 100x Earth's Gravity on his way to face Frieza, and Vegeta later trains at 300x. However, if an average human's power level is 5, then 300x gravity would be felt the same as normal gravity to someone with a power level of 1500, which was roughly the same as Raditz. Considering that Goku's original Super Saiyan transformation was 150 million, he'd need to train at over 3 million times Earth's gravity to feel any difference.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Oh. In the anime (or maybe just the dub?) he said that Pui Pui might have an advantage in x500 gravity. Any statement on what his gravity limit was in the manga?

Nothing that I can remember, I don't think he ever actually mentioned a gravity limit in the manga. This is the closest he came.

Chapter: 336 (DBZ 142), P11.3-5
Brief: “Huh!? You…you say you want me to make you a 300-times gravity room!?”
Vegeta: “That’s right. It seems that Kakarot trained in 100-times gravity…I’m at least 3 times as much as him…”
Brief: “Th…that’s crazy…Ve…Vegeta, if you weigh 60 kilos…then you’ll become eigh…18 tons….”

[Bussani]

Furthermore, if power level scales with gravity feats...

I don't think power level scales with any of the physical strength feats we see. Probably mostly because Toriyama didn't care enough to make it work that way, which would take effort and consistency and stuff, but I think it's fine.

[The Monkey King]

Furthermore, if power level scales with gravity feats... well I'll just let TV Tropes take over for this one:

A major plot point in the series is the characters using multiplied gravity for massive strength boosts in a short time. Goku Trains at 100x Earth's Gravity on his way to face Freeza, and Vegeta later trains at 300x. However, if an average human's power level is 5, then 300x gravity would be felt the same as normal gravity to someone with a power level of 1500, which was roughly the same as Raditz. Considering that Goku's original Super Saiyan transformation was 150 million, he'd need to train at over 3 million times Earth's gravity to feel any difference.

This is why I think they use very little ki if any at all when gravity training but ki amp to maximum when fighting in order to completely surpass the limitations of their muscles. Just helps me make a little bit more sense of Dragon Ball

[TheMightyOzaru]

Honestly I would say Goku is slightly stronger than Freeza since that's how my battle powers scaled come this movie. Also, Goku did say he was only using 80% battle power against Beers as a SSJ God during a fight so it wouldn't shock me if Goku was only at 50-80% power in front of Beers. Either way though the base Saiyan's, more specifically Goku and Vegeta, are around Freeza.

Whether they are suppressed or not I like to think they are around Full Power Freeza. Though we don't really know an exact level.

Yes, indeed. I like the idea that it took the Saiyans so long to get close to or slightly stronger than the most powerful being in the known universe.

[Mjb1985]

Gravity works in weird ways. Pui Pui's comments make sense in light of Base Trunks struggling in 150g and Yamcha unable to catches Bubbles in 10g. I don't think pure math will help to explain this.

[Saiga]

I think that's because strength isn't the only factor. If you've never experienced that level of gravity before, you need to adjust. The stronger you are the easier it becomes, and if you're REALLY strong you can overcome the gravity without needing adjustment. But it's not as simple as "Yamcha is stronger than Goku, so he shouldn't be affected by the same gravity".

[TheGmGoken]

I think that's because strength isn't the only factor. If you've never experienced that level of gravity before, you need to adjust. The stronger you are the easier it becomes, and if you're REALLY strong you can overcome the gravity without needing adjustment. But it's not as simple as "Yamcha is stronger than Goku, so he shouldn't be affected by the same gravity".

This is correct. Remember Gohan and Trunks when they first enter the HBTC/ROSAT. If I'm correct the ROSAT is 2 - 10x earth gravity. However Gohan and Trunks is MUCH stronger then Saiyan Saga Goku who had master 10x gravity by the time he fought Vegeta. Using the logic of "simple as "Yamcha is stronger than Goku, so he shouldn't be affected by the same gravity" then Goku(8,000) > Gohan and Trunks. Which fails.

[Mjb1985]

I think Trunks in the Buu Saga proves that no matter how strong you are gravity will effect you. Goku was doing 100x gravity at a 90,000 power level. Base Trunks power level should be well over 3,000,000, yet 150gs is still way too much for him.

[Cardle grave]

In anime and Movies Base saiyans would crush freeza with no effort form Cell games or lower. In Manga/BOG they Dont.

[TheMightyOzaru]

In anime and Movies Base saiyans would crush freeza with no effort form Cell games or lower. In Manga/BOG they Dont.

There isn't really a difference. Nothing the base Saiyans have done in the films and anime have suggested they are stronger than Freeza. Only in GT is when Goku surpassed everyone by a really large margin.

[Cardle grave]

Base gohan one shot Freeza in Movie 12. Pikkon one shot freeza and king cold. The same Pikkon that base goku was able to semi rival

[PerfectFreeza]

Freeza was at his initial level when Gohan beat him.
Base Goku doing well against Paikuhan is just a warm up phase.

[Cardle grave]

Going by movie 12 freeza is more powerful then Bojack as bojack was following his orders.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Base gohan one shot Freeza in Movie 12. Paikuhan one shot freeza and king cold. The same Paikuhan that base goku was able to semi rival

Was Freeza using 100% of his power? No. Gohan likely one shotted a Freeza who was at most using 10% IMO. Paikuhan also one shotted Cell... Is base Goku stronger than Cell? No, he isn't even generally stronger than Cell.

Going by movie 12 freeza is more powerful then Bojack as bojack was following his orders.

Who says Bojack was following him?

[Cardle grave]

So what, I even heard base trunks against machine Freeza is more stronger as they said that he made Freeza power look like a joke. Plus Pikkon one shot Cell with blazing Shoot while with Freeza he just hit him normal with a elbow or punch.

Then why wouldn't Bojack be in control them, Why would he run away form Gohan one shoting Freeza if his that much stronger

[dbzfan7]

So what, I even heard base trunks against machine Freeza is more stronger as they said that he made Freeza power look like a joke. Plus Paikuhan one shot Cell with blazing Shoot while with Freeza he just hit him normal with a elbow or punch.

Then why wouldn't Bojack be in control them, Why would he run away form Gohan one shoting Freeza if his that much stronger

Base Trunks being stronger then Freeza is laughable as he wouldn't bother using SSJ on him. Also that was a dub line

Paikuhan hit an off guard Cell who didn't even power up. If you want to take Paikuhan beating Cell literally, then Goku fighting Paikuhan is P.I.S. as Goku would have not progressed at all since the Cell games as he went straight to the tourney. If you take Paikuhan>Cell. Then you have Paikuhan>Cell>Suppressed Cell>MSSJ Goku. Goku ain't doing anything to Paikuhan then.

Because movie logic. Freeza is more popular then Bojack.

[Cardle grave]

Base Goten or Trunks can semi rival Android 18 who 2 shot Trunks SSJ in android saga who is stronger then the trunks that Destroyed Machine freeza