Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Rocketman]

Waitwaitwait...


"Vegetto, said to be the best in the universe in everything from ki control to ki strength"

|3

[Kamiccolo9]

Waitwaitwait...


"Vegetto, said to be the best in the universe in everything from ki control to ki strength"

|3

Isn't this Daizenshuu the one that includes the GT timeline as well? Interesting.

[RandomGuy96]

Notice how it said "said to be".

[TheMightyOzaru]

Overruled by the statement that Beers is the strongest in the history of Z.

[hleV]

BOG doesn't matter. It has enough contradictions to not be accepted as part of the main thing.

[TheMightyOzaru]

BOG doesn't matter. It has enough contradictions to not be accepted as part of the main thing.

The entire manga has enough contradictions to make itself not part of the main timeline =/. A few contradictions, which I have yet to see, don't negate it from the timeline, especially when Toriyama straight up said he wrote the story as a continuation of the manga. Just because you dislike this film doesn't mean it doesn't count .

[DBZGTKOSDH]

BOG doesn't matter to me. It has enough contradictions to not be accepted as part of the main thing.

Fixed. Personally, I view it as a mini-arc of the manga, and that's how Toriyama, Shueisha, etc seem to view it as well.

[hleV]

BOG is true to the manga as much as the other DBZ movies that fit into the timeline (M1, M9, M13, maybe some others).

Some of BOG story ideas were presented to AT, so he started from that. "I tried thinking up an original story, imagining it as though [the manga's] serialization had continued" doesn't translate to BOG being true to the manga, just that the part of the story that AT wrote reflects how he now imagines DB's continuation. If one is willing to accept the full thing as truth to the manga, then the same should apply to the other DBZ movies. To me, that's a no-go.

BOG contradicts shit as much as the other movies do. It's gonna be such a burden if people start including it into in-universe discussions. This wasn't the case with movies before. Why start now?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Toriyama still created the story as a sequel to his manga. He said so himself. Your argument is invalid. The manga itself contradicts itself. What's your point?

[hleV]

AT wasn't the only one working on the script. For all we know, the contradictions BOG has may have not come from AT himself. I'm saying that we don't know what exactly is Toriyama's and what's not in BOG. If we ever get to know, I will consider accepting Toriyama's part as true to the manga. Until then, I refuse (and this decision is perfectly justified) to accept completely everything from BOG as true to the manga. I have no problem accepting things like the backstory of Kaio's planet, etc, as it's confirmed that it came from Toriyama.

[Kamiccolo9]

What in BOG contradicts the manga?

[TheMightyOzaru]

AT wasn't the only one working on the script. For all we know, the contradictions BOG has may have not come from AT himself. I'm saying that we don't know what exactly is Toriyama's and what's not in BOG. If we ever get to know, I will consider accepting Toriyama's part as true to the manga. Until then, I refuse (and this decision is perfectly justified) to accept completely everything from BOG as true to the manga. I have no problem accepting things like the backstory of Kaio's planet, etc, as it's confirmed that it came from Toriyama.

Toriyama wrote the story, not the script. He said so himself. Toriyama supports it as a sequel to the manga. Just because not everything was his idea doesn't mean it doesn't count... It just seems to me you're all boo hoo butthurt because you don't like the movie =/.

[hleV]

What in BOG contradicts the manga?

Vegeta's rage power boost (such things are only possible for Gohan and perhaps other Saiyan-Human hybrids), mention of Tarble (there should be no pure Saiyans left but Goku & Vegeta), Gohan going SS (he had tried to do that when Rou Kaioshin told him to, but ended up "Ultimate" instead). Should be more, but I can't be bothered to look for them.

Toriyama wrote the story, not the script. He said so himself.

He wasn't the main scriptwriter, so there are high chances that non-Toriyama ideas were used for the movie.

Toriyama supports it as a sequel to the manga.

How so?

Just because not everything was his idea doesn't mean it doesn't count...

To me, it doesn't count. I don't accept other's ideas as part of the main thing. Unless Toriyama confirms they're legit, that is.

It just seems to me you're all boo hoo butthurt because you don't like the movie =/.

I honestly don't care what it seems to you, but for a proper reply, I'll say that I don't really dislike BOG, as I haven't seen it yet. I may very well enjoy it, just like I enjoy some other DBZ movies.

[Kamiccolo9]

What in BOG contradicts the manga?

Vegeta's rage power boost (such things are only possible for Gohan and perhaps other Saiyan-Human hybrids), mention of Tarble (there should be no pure Saiyans left but Goku & Vegeta), Gohan going SS (he had tried to do that when Rou Kaioshin told him to, but ended up "Ultimate" instead). Should be more, but I can't be bothered to look for them.

Nothing in the manga ever states that Vegeta couldn't have a rage boost. In fact, Goku could possibly have had one himself during the Piccolo Daimao fight, when he, who was crippled and broken, managed to kill Daimao.

Tarble was exiled for being weak. It's entirely possible for Vegeta to have believed that he was dead when he referred to Goku, Gohan, and himself as being the only Saiyans left.

And for Gohan, the Old Kaioshin told him to go SSJ in order to finalize the ritual. Nothing ever says that it took the ability away from him. As for him not using SSJ again, it's possible that the powerups are mutually exclusive, and that the Ultimate one is superior. He only goes SSJ in the movie when contributing to the SSJG transformation, not using it for a fight. So it doesn't contradict anything except fanmade assumptions.

[Rocketman]

Overruled by the statement that Beers is the strongest in the history of Z.

Overruled because Vegetto.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Overruled by the statement that Beers is the strongest in the history of Z.

Overruled because Vegetto.

Overruled because logic. It's stated that Beers and Whis are above Vegetto and that's that. Take your ignorance and general disapproval elsewhere. I don't see what's so hard to accept about a God of destruction being stronger than a fusion of 2 Saiyans. Hell SSJ God is technically comprised of 6 Super Saiyans and Beers beat him with only 70% effort.

[Kaboom]

Okay, we need to do a serious attitudes check in here. There's no reason to get so worked up about it. Include Battle of Gods stuff in your power levels, or don't. Doesn't matter.

I've been steadily trying to finish up my movies list, again. Might post it along with a revised series list soon, once I do some "research" into a few things.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Okay, we need to do a serious attitudes check in here. There's no reason to get so worked up about it. Include Battle of Gods stuff in your power levels, or don't. Doesn't matter.

I've been steadily trying to finish up my movies list, again. Might post it along with a revised series list soon, once I do some "research" into a few things.

KK and cool . It'll be cool to see your opinions on the movies. You ever plan on doing GT ?

[Kaboom]

You ever plan on doing GT ?

Hellz naw. There's a reason I opt to rewrite the darn series, instead.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Vegeta's rage power boost (such things are only possible for Gohan and perhaps other Saiyan-Human hybrids)

It's not a contradiction. Actually, like I told you in the movie thread, it is actually kinda supported by the manga, since Vegeta theorized it:

Vegeta suspected in the manga that Goku was stronger because he was fighting for the ones he loves. Then in BoG, Vegeta gets stronger when he fights for the one he loves, Bulma (the only other time that Vegeta got angry for someone other than his himself was when Cell killed Trunks, but Vegeta hadn't completely turned into a good guy yet, so I guess that's why he didn't get a rage boost). Toriyama said that Ki is composed from genki (energy), yuuki (bravery), and shouki (true character), so I guess it's related with yuuki and/or shouki.

mention of Tarble (there should be no pure Saiyans left but Goku & Vegeta)

Toriyama made the original draft of the JSAT, so even if you don't want to take the events of the special as part of the manga, Tarble exists in Toriyama's mind, since he created him. Same for Beers & Whis, since you seem to accept the existence of the characters (didn't you say that you accepted the Kaio Planet backstory?), but not the events of the movie.

Gohan going SS (he had tried to do that when Rou Kaioshin told him to, but ended up "Ultimate" instead).

Rou Kaioshin told him to get the gist of transforming into a Super Saiyan and throw in a kiai, not to transform into a Super Saiyan. And since it was never stated that Gohan can't transform into a Super Saiyan anymore, and since he obviously didn't become an "Ultimate Super Saiyan" in the movie, it means that he can choose to either transform into his Super Saiyan form, or power-up into his Ultimate state.

The real contradictions are these:

• Kaio's planet is back for some reason (my head canon: Kaio asked Goku to wish the planet back with the Dragon Balls)
• Mr. Satan forgot everything about Dende for some reason (I ignore it, since it's too minor & doesn't sound to affect the story at all),
• Shenlong can grand only 1 wish for some reason (my head-canon: Dende changed the Dragon Balls when he saw that Pilaf was going to collect them all, so that he won't have 3 wishes and bring the world upside-down).