FUNimation "DBZ on Blu-Ray" Survey

[Ringworm128]

And if you want a 16:9 show, then watch a 16:9 show. There are plenty of awesome ones created with your TV in mind.

I can't tolerate the willful and gleeful destruction of framing to fit someone else's TV

But they don't want to watch a different show they want to watch DBZ, they just don't want to watch it as if there is some kind of rule book on enjoying a show. And there's no "destruction" going on if they gave the OPTION, DBZ would still be a 4:3 show and we could all watch it in 4:3. Our Dragonboxes wouldn't fade away or have the sticker underneath that says "4:3" change to "16:9" just like if I chose to put chocolate sauce on my ice cream you wouldn't open up your tub to find it filled with chocolate sauce.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

The reason for this is because if you just zoom in your image to get 16:9, you have a lot less visible picture than if FUNimation themselves made it 16:9. This is because they have the entire scanned frame visible to them and can adjust the zoom of the full frame to include more picture at 16:9 than a consumer could. Its a bit hard to explain but basically what I'm saying is that if FUNimation releases the show in 16:9, you will see a LOT more picture than if a consumer zoomed in a 4:3 version of the show on their TV. If you compare the Orange Bricks with a cropped 16:9 Dragon Box, you will see what I mean.



Look how much image is lost on the top/left/right on the dbox when compared with the orange bricks.

Transfer for Dragon Boxes was done like this. For me, It's also hard to put my thoughts in English (especially technical), but let's say that on Dragon Box you have only "center of frame" (It sounds a little bit strange, but I hope that everyone understands that ) FUNimation can scan ENTIRE frame. Level sets proved that there is more picture than Dragon Boxes are showing.

And if you want a 16:9 show, then watch a 16:9 show. There are plenty of awesome ones created with your TV in mind.

I can't tolerate the willful and gleeful destruction of framing to fit someone else's TV

But they don't want to watch a different show they want to watch DBZ, they just don't want to watch it as if there is some kind of rule book on enjoying a show. And there's no "destruction" going on if they gave the OPTION, DBZ would still be a 4:3 show and we could all watch it in 4:3. Our Dragonboxes wouldn't fade away or have the sticker underneath that says "4:3" change to "16:9" just like if I chose to put chocolate sauce on my ice cream you wouldn't open up your tub to find it filled with chocolate sauce.

This rule book is called Experience, and is also about:
1. Respect for original authors (and art itself in any shape or form)
2. Technical knowledge
3. Intelligence
4. Logical thinking

I'm really recommending you to read it

By the way, entire frame on 16 mm photographic film isn't a little bit wider than 4:3?

[Kendamu]

I don't see why there couldn't be an option for both. TMNT 2 on DVD (and maybe Blu-ray) gives you the option of 4:3 or 16:9. Another example is the original Star Trek series on Blu-ray. You can watch it with the remastered CGI outer space (exterior views of the ship, planets, etc.) scenes or without. It's your choice in the menu. Hopefully FUNimation provides both.

[Ringworm128]

A person doesn't need to stick solely to the original to respect the author, as long as they acknowledge that it's not what was originally intended and respect the original there is nothing wrong with enjoying something the way THEY want. And I doubt the animators would give a shit if someone said to them "I'm going to watch the show you made for 4:3 in 16:9 ."

[Cipher]

I don't see why there couldn't be an option for both. TMNT 2 on DVD (and maybe Blu-ray) gives you the option of 4:3 or 16:9. Another example is the original Star Trek series on Blu-ray. You can watch it with the remastered CGI outer space (exterior views of the ship, planets, etc.) scenes or without. It's your choice in the menu. Hopefully FUNimation provides both.

Can confirm the TMNT Blu-rays don't give you the option. The original DVD releases did only because they were made early in the format's life cycle when 4:3 televisions were still standard, the practice of "fullscreen" releases again being something that was birthed out of necessity from when TVs were smaller, then stuck around out of habit until the end of that aspect ratio for new TVs.

The Star Trek Blu-rays must just be an anomaly. Were they filmed 4:3 and matted to a 16:9 for theatrical release? That's the only reason I could see for including that frame on a Blu-ray release -- that it was originally filmed that way. Especially as there are no 4:3 HD TVs that I'm aware of.

That's also completely viable reason to release two aspect ratios -- if something was filmed in one ratio but designed to work when matted into another. For instance, I wouldn't mind seeing a release of the Dragon Ball movies that includes both versions. But if it's a cropped version the creator never had in mind just to fit a TV frame, nuh-uh. Don't do it.

[Kendamu]

I don't see why there couldn't be an option for both. TMNT 2 on DVD (and maybe Blu-ray) gives you the option of 4:3 or 16:9. Another example is the original Star Trek series on Blu-ray. You can watch it with the remastered CGI outer space (exterior views of the ship, planets, etc.) scenes or without. It's your choice in the menu. Hopefully FUNimation provides both.

Can confirm the TMNT Blu-rays don't give you the option. The original DVD releases did only because they were made early in the format's life cycle when 4:3 televisions were still standard, the practice of "fullscreen" releases again being something that was birthed out of necessity from when TVs were smaller, then stuck around out of habit until the end of that aspect ratio for new TVs.

The Star Trek Blu-rays must just be an anomaly. Were they filmed 4:3 and matted to a 16:9 for theatrical release? That's the only reason I could see for including that frame on a Blu-ray release -- that it was originally filmed that way. Especially as there are no 4:3 HD TVs that I'm aware of.

That's also completely viable reason to release two aspect ratios -- if something was filmed in one ratio but designed to work when matted into another. For instance, I wouldn't mind seeing a release of the Dragon Ball movies that includes both versions. But if it's a cropped version the creator never had in mind just to fit a TV frame, nuh-uh. Don't do it.

Nonononono. On the Star Trek series Blu-rays, part of their (amazingly done) remastering was to redo all the ship exteriors and planets and other outer space stuff in CGI. However, if you wanna see the original shots done with actual models and 1960s special effects, you can choose to do so. It gives you the option. It's still presented in 4:3 in both cases.

If you wanna see the remastered version, it's on Netflix.

[Cipher]

Nonononono. On the Star Trek series Blu-rays, part of their (amazingly done) remastering was to redo all the ship exteriors and planets and other outer space stuff in CGI. However, if you wanna see the original shots done with actual models and 1960s special effects, you can choose to do so. It gives you the option. It's still presented in 4:3 in both cases.

Oooooh. Okay. Sorry. I have, like, no familiarity with Star Trek.

Yeah, that totally makes sense though. It's generally good practice if you're going to do a dramatic update to include the original version as well.

A "dramatic update" shouldn't include doing a center-crop of the material though. I think it's telling that even as they went through all the trouble to redo the special effects for the Star Trek movies, the one thing they didn't do was crop it to 16:9 for modern TVs.

[Kendamu]

Nonononono. On the Star Trek series Blu-rays, part of their (amazingly done) remastering was to redo all the ship exteriors and planets and other outer space stuff in CGI. However, if you wanna see the original shots done with actual models and 1960s special effects, you can choose to do so. It gives you the option. It's still presented in 4:3 in both cases.

Oooooh. Okay. Sorry. I have, like, no familiarity with Star Trek.

Yeah, that totally makes sense though. It's generally good practice if you're going to do a dramatic update to include the original version as well.

A "dramatic update" shouldn't include doing a center-crop of the material though. I think it's telling that even as they went through all the trouble to redo the special effects for the Star Trek movies, the one thing they didn't do was crop it to 16:9 for modern TVs.

Definitely not. However, as I've stated before, the way Kai was cropped on Japanese TV wasn't the end of the world. They went to a lot of trouble to make sure it didn't feel cramped or cut off any vital parts of the picture. If FUNimation went the 16:9 route and made sure to take the route Toei did with Japanese broadcast Kai, I'd still whine about it a little, but I could live with it.

What I'm really worried about is the colors and lines being completely messed up beyond belief again. Even the Orange Bricks, in their 16:9 aspect ratio, would've been much less of a bullshit release if the remaster didn't suck so badly.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

A person doesn't need to stick solely to the original to respect the author, as long as they acknowledge that it's not what was originally intended and respect the original there is nothing wrong with enjoying something the way THEY want. And I doubt the animators would give a shit if someone said to them "I'm going to watch the show you made for 4:3 in 16:9 ."

We are talking here about producing new release, not watching it. You can watch it like you want. Get technical/artistic knowledge (movie making/photography) and you will understand why it is "disrespectful towards original authors". Not only disrespectful, but also simply stupid - every person who is into photography will tell you this.

But don't feel offended - this is not my intent. If you like to watch the show in 16:9 it's OK for me. I'm only saying how it looks from artistic/technical point of view (For example, I asked my father, who is painter and photographer, about this).

[JulieYBM]

And if you want a 16:9 show, then watch a 16:9 show. There are plenty of awesome ones created with your TV in mind.

I can't tolerate the willful and gleeful destruction of framing to fit someone else's TV

But they don't want to watch a different show they want to watch DBZ, they just don't want to watch it as if there is some kind of rule book on enjoying a show. And there's no "destruction" going on if they gave the OPTION, DBZ would still be a 4:3 show and we could all watch it in 4:3. Our Dragonboxes wouldn't fade away or have the sticker underneath that says "4:3" change to "16:9" just like if I chose to put chocolate sauce on my ice cream you wouldn't open up your tub to find it filled with chocolate sauce.

Science has a rulebook. You cannot change a work something and continue to call it by the same name.

That might not stop an individual from hitting the 'zoom' button on their remote, but if FUNimation wants to not be a laughingstock (again) it damn well ought to stop them from promoting such nonsense.

[Zenkai]

We all now have HDTVs/Full HD monitors.

So you think everyone has an HDTV? I doubt it.

[sangofe]

We all now have HDTVs/Full HD monitors.

So you think everyone has an HDTV? I doubt it.

What's the point buying BluRay's if you don't have that?

[ABED]

My parents don't have an HDTV, but have a blu ray player.

[Ajay]

My parents don't have an HDTV, but have a blu ray player.

Why?

[Zenkai]

We all now have HDTVs/Full HD monitors.

So you think everyone has an HDTV? I doubt it.

What's the point buying BluRay's if you don't have that?

I don't have a Blu-ray player either.

I'll be interested in buying Blu-rays, but not anytime soon. And I'll have to get an HDTV and Blu-ray player before that time.

[Cipher]

My parents don't have an HDTV, but have a blu ray player.

Why?

To be fair, I had a Blu-ray player a good ten months before I had an HDTV to go with it. It just boiled down to the fact that I didn't want to continue purchasing DVDs, as I knew I'd want to have things I liked in Blu-ray eventually.

If you're never planning to upgrade though, yeah, that doesn't make a ton of sense. Although BDRs do look a little better than DVDs even on standard-definition screens. Sharper lines and colors still come through even with lower resolution.

[ABED]

My parents don't have an HDTV, but have a blu ray player.

Why?

Because their old DVD player broke, and they wanted one for when they do get an HDTV which is likely still a year away. My dad wants a 80 or 90 inch screen. I asked them to get a blu ray player since I started seeing special features that were exclusive to blu ray, and I love me some good extras.

[PhoenixEX]

Once 4K becomes big, expext a Dragon Ball Z in 4K!

[ABED]

Once 4K becomes big, expext a Dragon Ball Z in 4K!

I doubt it will catch on that well. Blu Ray is struggling, and physical media is declining. I doubt it will ever truely disappear, but I don't see 4k becoming that big.

[Cipher]

Once 4K becomes big, expext a Dragon Ball Z in 4K!

Is 4K past the threshold of differentiation for animation as simple as Dragon Ball's though?

The impression I've gotten from 4K is that it's

1) For fine details only

and 2) Not a noticeable difference until you get into the 60"+ range.

I know Dragon Ball was shot on film, so there's something to be gained in terms of sharpness going from DVD to Blu-ray (and FUNimation's two Blu-ray sets indeed looked phenomenal). But what would you gain from 4K on something like this? Finer grain?