SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

[RandomGuy96]

Buu also flat-out said that they couldn't beat him even when they were all small. He sensed SS3 Goku numerous times and said that only Gohan was stronger than him, he should know what he's talking about here.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I know. You'd have to be blind to think SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Evil Buu in the manga.

[Draken]

And it's a fact that all those lies or dodges were later cleared up.

So where does the random "I'm actually several times stronger than I really am even though SSJ3 has a limit of being 4x stronger than SSJ2 and I can beat a fusion and am stronger than my son who has more latent power than me" lie come from?

Yes most of all minus SSJ3 Goku go all out against Pure Boo. Vegeta realize that Kakarotto is not using all SSJ3 power by the presence of him. When Vegeta tells that, it's too late for Goku who was exhausted and lost almost all his energy.

I never support that big random lie. I believe in the SEG multipliers for the first time transformations but also believe that the Super Saiyan transformations can be mastered ( personal opinion ), so the multipliers should change.

Besides that, I also believe in the Ki suppressions when the character requires.

I hope you understand me

Mastering it doesn't mean it gets stronger, mastering means you can fluctuate your power and reduce the strain of the transformation, as shown with FPSSJ. FPSSJ is the same multiplier as SSJ. Goku's "lies" don't change how strong his max was during the Buu Saga.

[Undertaker]

Evil Boo >>>> SSJ3 Goku is in the Manga and it's clear

Only a fool or a biased fanboy would say otherwise

[Darkprince410]

You also have to consider that Goku's more arrogant attitude while facing off against Evil Buu inside his own body might have just been a bluff to feign strength. We see how panicked Goku is at the mere thought of fighting Evil Buu when he's talking with Vegeta after removing Gohan and the others, and as shown, he doesn't seem aware of any loss of power as small as he is. As such, when he's there confronting Evil Buu, he may just be attempting to force Buu to back down, that Buu would be nervous about Goku's seemingly confident attitude. Basically the same situation as when Vegeta convinced Gero to flee despite Vegeta actually being in no condition to fight following #19 absorbing his ki.

Evil Boo >>>> SSJ3 Goku is in the Manga and it's clear

Only a fool or a biased fanboy would say otherwise

You know, that's not really a healthy way of approaching arguments. Whether you believe them to be "fools" or "biased fanboys" is one thing, but to just outwardly call anyone who is arguing against you about it is very rude and condescending.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Ok, here is what my level would look like if SSJ Gotenks was stronger than Goku post ROSAT:
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
SSJ Gotenks(Pre): 27,000,000,000
SSJ Gotenks(Post): 35,000,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 280,000,000,000
Just because, here's Evil Buu and Gohan:
Evil Buu: 260,000,000,000
Ultimate Gohan: 400,000,000,000

[Mjb1985]

Well that's a step in the right direction imo. I prefer Pre having a bit of an edge as well but at least getting Post there is progress.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I know. You'd have to be blind to think SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Evil Buu in the manga.

Even in the Japanese anime, it states what the Japanese manga states. The problem is the particular fillers that contradict it. We must go with the overall message here and when a filler contradicts the manga, then the manga takes absolute priority.

[RandomGuy96]

I'm kind of thinking, for power level purposes on a not-really-serious list, that maybe Gotenks' SS3 multiplier is only x4 off his normal SS rather than x8, because he skipped SS2, and SS3 just multiplies directly off the previous form (/ignores that the Daiz listed him as a user of Super Saiyan 2). I mean, basically anything to make the Fusion Saga less bloated...

[Axiom]

I have SSJ3 Gotenks about on par, or weaker than SSJ3 Goku - about between Vegeta SSj2 and Full power Goku. Gohan is between Gotenks and Goku as well. Taboo, I know.

[RandomGuy96]

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength!"

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

Well there goes that theory.

[PerfectFreeza]

I have SSJ3 Gotenks about on par, or weaker than SSJ3 Goku - about between Vegeta SSj2 and Full power Goku. Gohan is between Gotenks and Goku as well. Taboo, I know.

Except that is horribly wrong, as Daizenshuu says half Saiyans have more potential than full Saiyans.
At very least, SSJ3 Gotenks is above SSJ3 Goku.

[Axiom]

I have SSJ3 Gotenks about on par, or weaker than SSJ3 Goku - about between Vegeta SSj2 and Full power Goku. Gohan is between Gotenks and Goku as well. Taboo, I know.

Except that is horribly wrong, as Daizenshuu says half Saiyans have more potential than full Saiyans.
At very least, SSJ3 Gotenks is above SSJ3 Goku.

Potential doesn't mean power. Just saying.

[Axiom]

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength!"

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

Well there goes that theory.

Goku's dead and we the reader (or viewer) are under the impression he's not coming back to the plane of the living. Nothing really new here/

[Kamiccolo9]

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength!"

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

Well there goes that theory.

Goku's dead and we the reader (or viewer) are under the impression he's not coming back to the plane of the living. Nothing really new here/

Buu didn't know Goku was dead.

[PerfectFreeza]

Daizenshuu 7:

The strongest form of Super Saiyan, which draws the hidden power of a Saiyan out to its limits. However, due to the large energy consumption of this form, outside of the afterlife one can only stay transformed for a limited amount of time.

So SSJ3 Gotenks is above SSJ3 Goku at least.

[Axiom]

Chapter: 506 (DBZ 312), P12.4-5
Context: after Goku and Vegeta revert Boo back to regular evil Boo
Goku: “Hehhe~~eh! With this, Boo’s power should have fallen significantly! We’re almost there! See, see: the size of his ki is completely different than before!”
Vegeta: “Alright! Let’s blast out of here and escape!”
Goku: “Wait! Even though Boo has returned to normal a whole lot, we’re still simply no match for his strength!"

Chapter: 499 (DBZ 305), P12.2-4
Gohan: “…That was dirty, you bastard…You ingested the two of them into yourself…”
Boo: “It’s your fault. You were stronger than I, who should have been the absolute strongest…When I sensed your distant presence, I started up on this strategy…In case maybe, just maybe, there was anyone stronger than myself…Then I hit upon it: if I absorbed that ‘Super Gotenks’ squirt I was fighting at the time, then no matter what kind of guy appeared, my throne as the strongest would not be shaken…”

Well there goes that theory.

Goku's dead and we the reader (or viewer) are under the impression he's not coming back to the plane of the living. Nothing really new here/

Buu didn't know Goku was dead.

Yeah, the gaint Halo above his head wasn't a dead giveaway(hahah, pun), nor was his MASSIVE energy dissappearing off this plane of existance was another. Then again, Fat-Buu wasn't able to sense Ki, and base Goku isn't going to throw off anyone radar. The only reason he detected Gohan was because of his outburst.

Daizenshuu 7:

The strongest form of Super Saiyan, which draws the hidden power of a Saiyan out to its limits. However, due to the large energy consumption of this form, outside of the afterlife one can only stay transformed for a limited amount of time.

So SSJ3 Gotenks is above SSJ3 Goku at least.

All you're doing is quoting what the stages of SSJ do - by this logic, SSJ2 Gohan would always be stronger than SSJ2 Goku and Vegeta.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well there goes that theory.

Goku's dead and we the reader (or viewer) are under the impression he's not coming back to the plane of the living. Nothing really new here/[/quote]
Buu didn't know Goku was dead.[/quote]

Yeah, the gaint Halo above his head wasn't a dead giveaway(hahah, pun), nor was his MASSIVE energy dissappearing off this plane of existance was another. Then again, Fat-Buu wasn't able to sense Ki, and base Goku isn't going to throw off anyone radar. The only reason he detected Gohan was because of his outburst.[/quote]
Fat Buu becomes Super Buu just a couple of hours after Goku fights him. Neither Babidi nor Buu commented on Goku being dead. I doubt Buu even knows what it means; why would he? How many dead people does Buu hang out with?
And SSJ3 Goku was an ant compared to Super Buu. Not even worth his time.

[RandomGuy96]

There's also Goku outright saying that he's no match for Super Buu's strength. That quote right there should end every debate on the subject. And yet, somehow, it doesn't.

[PerfectFreeza]

Gohan and the kids are half Saiyans, therefore they have more hidden power, than Goku.Since the kids are SSJ3, then they surpass SSJ3 Goku.
EDIT:People just don't want to accept it and therefore make all kinds of rather baseless theories about Goku lying, not accounting SSJ3 or being small, than to accept, that Goku can't beat Super Buu and therefore is weaker than Gotenks and Gohan.