The old art style is better than the new art style

[kei17]

On Twitter, I've seen a professional animator complaining about Yamamuro's current art style.

[JulieYBM]

On Twitter, I've seen a professional animator complaining about Yamamuro's current art style.

That's interesting. I can understand why his current models might be a bit difficult to work with. His models for Battle of Gods was a lot more detailed. Yamamuro also seems to keep everyone as on-model as possible. Other than Tate Naoki's key animation during the JSAT it feels like Yamamuro have kept a very tight grip on the animator's artistic freedom. May I ask which animator this was?

[kei17]

I've found his tweets.


Yoshimichi Kameda (one of the leading animators in Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood) after watching BoG's second trailer:

https://twitter.com/59033ihcimihsoy/sta ... 6085345281
https://twitter.com/59033ihcimihsoy/sta ... 4292742144
https://twitter.com/59033ihcimihsoy/sta ... 6800555008

ドラゴンボール どしちゃった、、、 (What's wrong, Dragon Ball?)

前田実さん時代の柔らかい絵柄にしてくれ… (Do it in the soft looking art style from Minoru Maeda's period, please.)

予告でこの感じだもんな。。ショックが隠せないなあ… (Even a trailer looks like this. I can't hide my shock.)

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Really? Glad it's not just the fans then.

I can tolerate the current art style he's set for the character models for PtEtSS, EoB and BoG, but I don't really like it all that much. Other than the shininess on some of the earlier works, everything from the end of Z till the JSAT wasn't all that bad. Since then though, the art style has definitely taken a turn for the worse. I do admire his work ethic though, because as Jacob said, most of the characters stay fairly on model...those models just aren't as good as they used to be. :/

Art style isn't important enough for me to want someone to lose their job or anything, but is there a guesstimate to how much longer he'll remain in his current position? Like his age or how long people usually keep a job like his?

[JulieYBM]

Woah, woah, woah! Kameda-san said that? Kameda's a genius so I can understand why he would feel the current Yamamuro models aren't too good. I'm sort of surprised he would ask to return to Maeda Minoru, though. Maeda's style stopped being animator-friendly as Toriyama's style continued to change, I feel.

[ABED]

Woah, woah, woah! Kameda-san said that? Kameda's a genius so I can understand why he would feel the current Yamamuro models aren't too good. I'm sort of surprised he would ask to return to Maeda Minoru, though. Maeda's style stopped being animator-friendly as Toriyama's style continued to change, I feel.

Which one was Maeda?

[JulieYBM]

Woah, woah, woah! Kameda-san said that? Kameda's a genius so I can understand why he would feel the current Yamamuro models aren't too good. I'm sort of surprised he would ask to return to Maeda Minoru, though. Maeda's style stopped being animator-friendly as Toriyama's style continued to change, I feel.

Which one was Maeda?

Maeda Minoru was character designer for Dr. Slump: Arale-chan, Dragon Ball, and Dragon Ball Z episodes #1-199. He stopped acting as an animation supervisor after episode #164 and the second television special.

[kei17]

Woah, woah, woah! Kameda-san said that? Kameda's a genius so I can understand why he would feel the current Yamamuro models aren't too good. I'm sort of surprised he would ask to return to Maeda Minoru, though. Maeda's style stopped being animator-friendly as Toriyama's style continued to change, I feel.

Yeah, I too don't think Maeda's models would fit BoG. I guess he just meant that he didn't like the stiffness of Yamamuro's style.

[ABED]

Woah, woah, woah! Kameda-san said that? Kameda's a genius so I can understand why he would feel the current Yamamuro models aren't too good. I'm sort of surprised he would ask to return to Maeda Minoru, though. Maeda's style stopped being animator-friendly as Toriyama's style continued to change, I feel.

Which one was Maeda?

Maeda Minoru was character designer for Dr. Slump: Arale-chan, Dragon Ball, and Dragon Ball Z episodes #1-199. He stopped acting as an animation supervisor after episode #164 and the second television special.

I'm confused. Who's saying what about what and whom? Why does he think it's a bad? Is it a bad thing that Maeda being asked to return a bad thing? Those shots you linked to look great.

[JulieYBM]

I'm confused. Who's saying what about what and whom? Why does he think it's a bad? Is it a bad thing that Maeda being asked to return a bad thing? Those shots you linked to look great.

Professional animator Kameda Yoshimichi commented that he did not like the current look of Dragon Ball. He wanted the film to be done in the "soft looking art style from Minoru Maeda's period." Kameda is essentially displeased with the look of Yamamuro Tadayoshi's current models and practices as animation supervisor. I, Jacob, expressed on this here forum, that I was surprised Kameda would request a return to Maeda Minoru's character designs. Maeda Minoru's models and practices as animation supervisor--as I have opined in this thread previously--do not create an environment suited to battle scenes. Your comment points to exactly what I was alluding to in an earlier post in this thread: Maeda's focus is too much on detail and capturing a photogenic look. The screen captures presented in the Kanzenshuu Animation Styles Guide look great because they are stills. Animation is not about stills, certainly not during action cuts. Maeda's choice of animators and supervising weaken the battle scenes for the projects in which he acted as animation supervisor. Dragon Ball Z episode #164 was a big example of this. Trunks and Cell looked good, but they did not move impressively. On the contrary, the following episode #165 had interesting action animation thanks to Ohara Tai'ichirou's skill as a key animator. When Ohara worked under Maeda on Dragon Ball Z movie #6 there was a noticeable gimp in his performance, likely due to Maeda Minoru's stricter reign in keeping animators working to create photogenic drawings rather than interesting action cuts.

[ABED]

I'm confused. Who's saying what about what and whom? Why does he think it's a bad? Is it a bad thing that Maeda being asked to return a bad thing? Those shots you linked to look great.

Professional animator Kameda Yoshimichi commented that he did not like the current look of Dragon Ball. He wanted the film to be done in the "soft looking art style from Minoru Maeda's period." Kameda is essentially displeased with the look of Yamamuro Tadayoshi's current models and practices as animation supervisor. I, Jacob, expressed on this here forum, that I was surprised Kameda would request a return to Maeda Minoru's character designs. Maeda Minoru's models and practices as animation supervisor--as I have opined in this thread previously--do not create an environment suited to battle scenes. Your comment points to exactly what I was alluding to in an earlier post in this thread: Maeda's focus is too much on detail and capturing a photogenic look. The screen captures presented in the Kanzenshuu Animation Styles Guide look great because they are stills. Animation is not about stills, certainly not during action cuts. Maeda's choice of animators and supervising weaken the battle scenes for the projects in which he acted as animation supervisor. Dragon Ball Z episode #164 was a big example of this. Trunks and Cell looked good, but they did not move impressively. On the contrary, the following episode #165 had interesting action animation thanks to Ohara Tai'ichirou's skill as a key animator. When Ohara worked under Maeda on Dragon Ball Z movie #6 there was a noticeable gimp in his performance, likely due to Maeda Minoru's stricter reign in keeping animators working to create photogenic drawings rather than interesting action cuts.

Thanks, though I'm not a carnoisseur, and find those episodes to be fine, and not just the still shots.

[Jackal puFF]

Minoru Maeda era was the best to me. It's always a downer whenever I see the new animation.. That shiny skin really bothers me. Too bad BOG has it... Better than the bardock special but it's still more similar to that than the original art style.

I guess Toriyama is okay with that kind of new style then?

[mAcChaos]

I always figured it was because old animation was all hand drawn and the kind they use today is mass produced easily cut and pasted CG.

You have figured incorrectly. Animation in Japan is still drawn by hand. Key animation drawings and in-between animation draws are all still done by hand. This is how in-between animators get promoted to key animation, after all. The hand-drawn sheets are then scanned and the finishing touches done on computers. Only animators like Yamashita Shingo, BahiJD (an Austrian who tele-commutes), Ryou-chimo, and Oda Gosei use digital programs like flash to animate.

Really? How can there be such a drastic change then. They look too "neat and clean" if that makes sense, compared to the old DB art which I can actually see the hand-drawnness of it.

[B]

I always feel like not one person is talking about the same thing when the term "art style" is thrown around in regards to the anime. Are we talking about the various character deigners, or how newer material is produced digitally, or what?

[Sin]

My favorite art style is the less shiny, rounder art of the Saiyan Saga right up until Namek, I was never a fan of the later GT/Post-Z designs. I also preferred the older style of animation and particularly during the Garlic Jr. Saga.

[JulieYBM]

Really? How can there be such a drastic change then. They look too "neat and clean" if that makes sense, compared to the old DB art which I can actually see the hand-drawnness of it.

The 'cleanness' you are referring to is merely because the sheets are scanned, colored, and traced digitally. The first three series were all finished physically using actual paints and the like. Dirt and grain cannot appear on digital information, after all.

[mAcChaos]

Really? How can there be such a drastic change then. They look too "neat and clean" if that makes sense, compared to the old DB art which I can actually see the hand-drawnness of it.

The 'cleanness' you are referring to is merely because the sheets are scanned, colored, and traced digitally. The first three series were all finished physically using actual paints and the like. Dirt and grain cannot appear on digital information, after all.

Ah, so it is all done with computers after all.

[KentalSSJ6]

Does anyone know a list of what animators were in Kai? With so much footage cut I cant remember who's animation were used in which episodes.

[soulnova]

I'm confused. Who's saying what about what and whom? Why does he think it's a bad? Is it a bad thing that Maeda being asked to return a bad thing? Those shots you linked to look great.

Professional animator Kameda Yoshimichi commented that he did not like the current look of Dragon Ball. He wanted the film to be done in the "soft looking art style from Minoru Maeda's period." Kameda is essentially displeased with the look of Yamamuro Tadayoshi's current models and practices as animation supervisor. I, Jacob, expressed on this here forum, that I was surprised Kameda would request a return to Maeda Minoru's character designs. Maeda Minoru's models and practices as animation supervisor--as I have opined in this thread previously--do not create an environment suited to battle scenes. Your comment points to exactly what I was alluding to in an earlier post in this thread: Maeda's focus is too much on detail and capturing a photogenic look. The screen captures presented in the Kanzenshuu Animation Styles Guide look great because they are stills. Animation is not about stills, certainly not during action cuts. Maeda's choice of animators and supervising weaken the battle scenes for the projects in which he acted as animation supervisor. Dragon Ball Z episode #164 was a big example of this. Trunks and Cell looked good, but they did not move impressively. On the contrary, the following episode #165 had interesting action animation thanks to Ohara Tai'ichirou's skill as a key animator. When Ohara worked under Maeda on Dragon Ball Z movie #6 there was a noticeable gimp in his performance, likely due to Maeda Minoru's stricter reign in keeping animators working to create photogenic drawings rather than interesting action cuts.

Interesting, I remember those episodes fondly and never realized the lack of action or movement. I always felt those were the best. From an non-expert view, I'd highly agree with Kameda.


In general, we then could agree that the quality of animator's skills have gone down a lot if there was only one decent animator working on the latest works.

[JulieYBM]

In general, we then could agree that the quality of animator's skills have gone down a lot if there was only one decent animator working on the latest works.

Dragon Ball Kai's Openings have animation from Shida Naotoshi (cuts from Dragon Ball #96, cuts from One Piece #590). Shida, Oonishi Ryou, Ootsuka Ken, Tate Naoki, and Kurita Shin'ichi worked on the opening for Dragon Ball Z: Ultimate Blast. Oonishi Ryou did the final fight for Episode of Bardock. Talented animators have been used on the most recent works. Not every animator working on Dragon Ball worked on Dragon Ball twenty years ago. Other than Tate Naoki and Shida Naotoshi--who have improved--most of the returning veterans have lost their touch.

Does anyone know a list of what animators were in Kai? With so much footage cut I cant remember who's animation were used in which episodes.

Kanzenshuu has all credits for the movies and first three television series' in the Production Guide. Each movie, special, and episode's guide page also lists the credits. Each page for Dragon Ball Kai links to the corresponding Dragon Ball Z episode guide, too. Here is the page for Key Animators for Dragon Ball Z. Change the 'dbz' in the URL to 'db', 'movie', and 'gt' for the other sections.