Speed Feat Thread

[The Monkey King]

Gohan-absorbed Boo is a slow ass. Super Gotenks flew across the earth multiple times in even faster time than what he did.

Buu slow speed was for plot purposes.

[Hitiro]

Gohan-absorbed Boo is a slow ass. Super Gotenks flew across the earth multiple times in even faster time than what he did.

Well, Boohan was taking his time and leisurely making his way to Goku and Vegeta. Whereas SSJ Gotenks was actually trying to show off. Boohan said himself that even if Goku and Vegeta fused, I guess he was assuming it was the same as the Fusion dance, that there would be no way for them to beat him. So he had no reason to rush, he didn't care if they fused or not. Unfortunately for him he underestimated the power of the potara fusion which is orders of magnitude greater than the fusion dance.

[Saiyatonian]

Faster than the human eye by far. Speed of light? Speed of sound?

Off Topic: I think the clips/panels are slowed down versions of the fight so we can see what really happening rather than staring at the mountains all episode

I think it shows that in the Kuririn vs Roshi fight.

[Saiyatonian]

What do you guys think about this?







Lightspeed or no?

[The Monkey King]

Chouzenshuu 4: Using his staff, it takes Whis about 26 minutes to get from Beers' palace to Kaio's, and 3 minutes from Kaio's to Earth.

Doesn't Whis using his staff mean it wasn't his own speed and more like Bulma reaching Jupiter in seconds in the Namekian spaceship?

[goku the krump dancer]

I don't think it would have killed Cell, we would have just had another warp Kamehameha moment.

Hmm, I'm not that inclined to agree with that. The Final Flash had a much larger radius. If Cell had taken the full brunt of it then his whole body would have been taken away. Goku didn't manage to kill Cell because the point blank war Kamehameha only managed to hit his top half. The Final Flash would have undoubtedly hit every inch of Cell if he hadn't of moved at the last second.

Vegeta narrowed his blast though and even then I don't think Vegeta was strong enough to create a blast strong enough to kill Cell.

Remember Cell got engulfed by his own high powered Kamehameha as well as Gohan's and he came out pretty damaged but he still managed to regenerate.

[mAcChaos]

Why would he look alarmed and try to move out of the way then.

[goku the krump dancer]

Just because its not going to kill him doesn't mean its NOT going to hurt.

Real Life example: Your not going to die if someone crashes into you with their bike, but you're still going to get out of the way cuz it'll hurt like hell.

[Hitiro]

Just because its not going to kill him doesn't mean its NOT going to hurt.

Real Life example: Your not going to die if someone crashes into you with their bike, but you're still going to get out of the way cuz it'll hurt like hell.

He was completely worried about taking the full brunt of the Final Flash. If it was just going to hurt him then he wouldn't have been so worried. The fact that he moved is proof enough that the beam would have killed him where he stood. And just because Vegeta narrowed the beam doesn't mean it wasn't big enough to engulf Cell. As I recall the beam was big enough to wipe out a decent chunk of land mass. He took a few islands with the beam as he sent it towards Cell and then out to space.

[goku the krump dancer]

He was also worried about Goku's Kamehameha and Gohan's Kamehemaha both of which were much stronger than Vegeta and he(Cell) took the Son family's blasts head on and he did not die.

[rereboy]

What do you guys think about this?

...

Lightspeed or no?

All you see of a bullet being fired is also just a flash. Does that mean that the bullet is as fast or faster than lightspeed?

[Hitiro]

He was also worried about Goku's Kamehameha and Gohan's Kamehemaha both of which were much stronger than Vegeta and he(Cell) took the Son family's blasts head on and he did not die.

He was worried about them because they "could" have killed him if they wiped away every Cell. Goku's was probably the only attack on par with Vegeta's because he put in enough energy to wipe out the planet. Gohan just half-hazardly fired a Kamehameha. Cell was more astonished Gohan could whip out such a powerful Kamehameha so quickly. I don't think there was any actual worry about him being completely destroyed. So yeah, Vegeta and Goku both could have ended the fight with their techniques. Gohan deliberately held back because he wanted to make Cell suffer.

[goku the krump dancer]

Vegeta was shook up when Gohan fired a Kamehameha that was even bigger than Cell's own full powered blast. Goku, Gohan and Cell were all stronger than Vegeta at that point in the story.. a full powered blast from either of them would be more powerful than a full powered blast from Vegeta. Cell got hit directly by a full powered blast from Goku and a blast that was stronger than Cell's own Full Powered Kamehameha from Gohan both of whom were stronger than Vegeta and neither of those blasts were strong enough to kill the bastard.

[Hitiro]

Vegeta was shook up when Gohan fired a Kamehameha that was even bigger than Cell's own full powered blast. Goku, Gohan and Cell were all stronger than Vegeta at that point in the story.. a full powered blast from either of them would be more powerful than a full powered blast from Vegeta. Cell got hit directly by a full powered blast from Goku and a blast that was stronger than Cell's own Full Powered Kamehameha from Gohan both of whom were stronger than Vegeta and neither of those blasts were strong enough to kill the bastard.

I think you are placing too much thought in character strength rather than character technique. We all know that just because you are more powerful than someone doesn't mean you can dish out an attack stronger than the weaker person. It is all about the technique used. We have seen throughout the manga and anime that individuals have developed techniques that surpass their strength. The earliest example we can confirm is Goku's Kamehameha and Piccolo's Makankosappo. We have seen both these techniques produce beams which are several times greater battle power than the user themselves. Piccolo's Makankosappo was around 3 times his battle power and Goku's was just over 2 times his battle power. So to say Vegeta's Final Flash was weaker than Goku's Kamehameha just because Vegeta is weaker than Goku isn't really a fair assumption. For all we know the Final Flash could have a 10x modifier on the persons battle power.

Vegeta was shaken up by Gohan because he was so powerful and a Kamehameha produced by him barely at its full power was enough to overpower Cell's full powered Kamehameha. It is a scary thing to witness but we know that once Gohan turned SSJ2 coupled with his rage boost he has left Cell in the dust in terms of battle power. If we assume the Kamehameha Gohan launched was just a 1.1x modifier of his battle power because he wasn't using it full power than Gohan's Kamehameha is going to trounce Cell's full powered Kamehameha which is just over 2 times modifier. And as I said, Gohan wasn't trying to kill Cell. He was trying to make him suffer. He deliberately made his Kamehameha weak enough to beat Cell's Kamehameha but not enough to kill him on purpose. If Vegeta's Final Flash wasn't a threat then why would Cell hastily dodge it? Damage means nothing to Cell if he can regenerate. He was going to get hit by the attack if he tried to dodge it or not. If it wasn't powerful enough to destroy him then Cell had no reason to try and dodge the attack.

[Saiyatonian]

What do you guys think about this?

...

Lightspeed or no?

All you see of a bullet being fired is also just a flash. Does that mean that the bullet is as fast or faster than lightspeed?

No, but what's interesting is that NONE of them could react to it besides Goku. Look at the scans. None of them are even trying to react to it until they realize the explosion behind them. And if Piccolo, a guy who can see bullets and is faster than them, said he only saw a flash of light, well you interpret it how it is. I personally think it could be lightspeed, or near it.

[rereboy]

What do you guys think about this?

...

Lightspeed or no?

All you see of a bullet being fired is also just a flash. Does that mean that the bullet is as fast or faster than lightspeed?

No, but what's interesting is that NONE of them could react to it besides Goku. Look at the scans. None of them are even trying to react to it until they realize the explosion behind them. And if Piccolo, a guy who can see bullets and is faster than them, said he only saw a flash of light, well you interpret it how it is. I personally think it could be lightspeed, or near it.

There's literally nothing in the scans that points to it being lightspeed or anywhere near it. Like my example easily demonstrates, only being able to see a flash of light and not what is "fired" from that flash, doesn't prove in the slightest that what was fired was traveling at light speed. You can believe it was lightspeed if that's your preference, but there's nothing in those scans that can demonstrate that.

[Saiyatonian]

Fair enough. Just wanted to know your opinion on it.

[goku the krump dancer]

I think you are placing too much thought in character strength rather than character technique.

Funny I think your doing the exact opposite of what you're accusing me of lol. I'm well aware that certain techniques can momentarily increase the users power but even then that only goes but so far. You said something before that the Final Flash could have multiplied Vegeta's power by 10 right? Well remember in the final battle with Freeza Goku multiplied his power by 20 and it was just barely enough to leave a few burns on Freeza's hand and on top of that Base Goku faired better against final form Freeza than USSJ Vegeta did against Perfect Cell. Goku was able to hold his own for a while (until Freeza got serious), whereas Cell was effortlessly tanking and dodging everything Vegeta threw at him even before the Final Flash and Cell was still in "play around, warm up" mode the entire time. In order for Vegeta to have had any chance of killing Cell he'd have to be much much stronger than what he was even after his second run-through in the RoSat or the Final Flash would have had to have increased his power by like 200 or something.

Damage means nothing to Cell if he can regenerate. He was going to get hit by the attack if he tried to dodge it or not. If it wasn't powerful enough to destroy him then Cell had no reason to try and dodge the attack.

Thats a silly thing to say, even if Piccolo was fully conscious when Cell blew a hole through him I doubt he just laugh it off because he could regenerate. Heightened regeneration ceases the pain much faster than someone healing at a normal pace. Cell did not laugh when 16 was ripping his tail off, Cell was not laughing at first when Vegeta blew off his arm, Cell was temporarily unconscious when Goku destroyed his upper torso and lastly Cell definitely wasn't laughing when he was hit by Gohan's counter Kamehameha. All of those instances caused him physical pain but because of his heightened regeneration the pain that was inflicted was short lived.

Cell tried to dodge the Final Flash for the same reason he would have dogged Goku's full power Kamehameha if he had fired it from the sky instead of teleporting in front him I.E. IT WOULD HAVE HURT. Cell had the same "OH SHIT" face when Goku suddenly appeared in front him before letting the blast go that he had when he realized the Final Flash had more power behind it than he thought. He got hit FULL ON by a full power blast by someone stronger than Vegeta and he did not die. I doubt Vegeta's Final Flash was stronger than Goku's Full Power Kamehameha. We've seen that the Kamehameha is a chi multiplier as well, infact that was one of our first examples and since Goku was already much stronger than Vegeta then a Full Power Kamehameha would multiply Goku's strength even further.

Going by your statement that means nothing the Z fighters threw at Boo hurt at all even when they had clear advantages over him. Last I checked, Vegetto mopped the floor with Boo as did Gohan with plain Super Boo and I'm sure Kid Boo felt Goku's punches as well not to mention Gotenks' Kamikaze Ghost dealt some damage to Boo too. Shit Majin Vegeta was weaker than Fat Boo yet Boo himself says that the "Atomic Blast" (as they like to call it in the games), hurt albeit a tiny bit.

[Hitiro]

Funny I think your doing the exact opposite of what you're accusing me of lol. I'm well aware that certain techniques can momentarily increase the users power but even then that only goes but so far. You said something before that the Final Flash could have multiplied Vegeta's power by 10 right? Well remember in the final battle with Freeza Goku multiplied his power by 20 and it was just barely enough to leave a few burns on Freeza's hand and on top of that Base Goku faired better against final form Freeza than USSJ Vegeta did against Perfect Cell. Goku was able to hold his own for a while (until Freeza got serious), whereas Cell was effortlessly tanking and dodging everything Vegeta threw at him even before the Final Flash and Cell was still in "play around, warm up" mode the entire time. In order for Vegeta to have had any chance of killing Cell he'd have to be much much stronger than what he was even after his second run-through in the RoSat or the Final Flash would have had to have increased his power by like 200 or something.

Well we don't know how techniques like the Kaioken actually affect ki based attacks. For all we know the Kaioken multiplied Goku's battle power and as a result negated the Kamehameha's amplification? Or it is possible that the Kamehameha Goku released was higher than the 60 million he was at with KKx20 and Freeza had to exert himself a decent amount to push back a blast which was only half his full power. In all seriousness Freeza was probably forced to use a ki blast that amplified his own ki to prevent Goku's Kamehameha from killing him. I think 80% Freeza + 2x ki amplification blast beats Goku KKx20 + Kamehameha ki amplification. We know of at least one attack that has a massive ki amplification and that would be SSJ Gotenks' Super Ghost Kamekaze Attack. SSJ3 Gotenks was the only form that could fight on par with Evil Boo. So the SGKA was at least an 8x increase.

Thats a silly thing to say, even if Piccolo was fully conscious when Cell blew a hole through him I doubt he just laugh it off because he could regenerate. Heightened regeneration ceases the pain much faster than someone healing at a normal pace. Cell did not laugh when 16 was ripping his tail off, Cell was not laughing at first when Vegeta blew off his arm, Cell was temporarily unconscious when Goku destroyed his upper torso and lastly Cell definitely wasn't laughing when he was hit by Gohan's counter Kamehameha. All of those instances caused him physical pain but because of his heightened regeneration the pain that was inflicted was short lived.

Cell tried to dodge the Final Flash for the same reason he would have dogged Goku's full power Kamehameha if he had fired it from the sky instead of teleporting in front him I.E. IT WOULD HAVE HURT. Cell had the same "OH SHIT" face when Goku suddenly appeared in front him before letting the blast go that he had when he realized the Final Flash had more power behind it than he thought. He got hit FULL ON by a full power blast by someone stronger than Vegeta and he did not die. I doubt Vegeta's Final Flash was stronger than Goku's Full Power Kamehameha. We've seen that the Kamehameha is a chi multiplier as well, infact that was one of our first examples and since Goku was already much stronger than Vegeta then a Full Power Kamehameha would multiply Goku's strength even further.

Going by your statement that means nothing the Z fighters threw at Boo hurt at all even when they had clear advantages over him. Last I checked, Vegetto mopped the floor with Boo as did Gohan with plain Super Boo and I'm sure Kid Boo felt Goku's punches as well not to mention Gotenks' Kamikaze Ghost dealt some damage to Boo too. Shit Majin Vegeta was weaker than Fat Boo yet Boo himself says that the "Atomic Blast" (as they like to call it in the games), hurt albeit a tiny bit.

Actually after the blast hit Cell he was pretending to be incredibly damaged for amusement. He smiled before he regenerated. He was just feigning being in pain at that point. I have no doubt a blast would hurt but only for a short period for him considering the way his body works. Pain is probably just a way to register damage for a bio android like him. After it is registered I doubt it would continue to be felt until he regenerates. It would seem like pretty flawed design to have pain constantly effecting his battle prowess.

[goku the krump dancer]

Well we don't know how techniques like the Kaioken actually affect ki based attacks. For all we know the Kaioken multiplied Goku's battle power and as a result negated the Kamehameha's amplification? Or it is possible that the Kamehameha Goku released was higher than the 60 million he was at with KKx20 and Freeza had to exert himself a decent amount to push back a blast which was only half his full power. In all seriousness Freeza was probably forced to use a ki blast that amplified his own ki to prevent Goku's Kamehameha from killing him. I think 80% Freeza + 2x ki amplification blast beats Goku KKx20 + Kamehameha ki amplification. We know of at least one attack that has a massive ki amplification and that would be SSJ Gotenks' Super Ghost Kamekaze Attack. SSJ3 Gotenks was the only form that could fight on par with Evil Boo. So the SGKA was at least an 8x increase.

Honestly, this just seems like a bunch needless assumptions so at this point, I think we should just agree to disagree.