Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

[KingofWisdom]

Even if there was some FUNimation conspiracy to withhold a quality release from us (that stays on the market, long-term) no one from the company would ever admit to it.

[Martinrock]

But again do you know the amount of sales of the orange brick season? It would be interesting to know the opinion with a poll.

Sales numbers aren't public, but we do know a few things.

1- It's kept DBZ in the top selling anime franchises year after year.
2- Wal-mart has requested custom packaged versions twice thus far (it's twice I believe... one was two season packs, and then half seasons last year right?)
3- The orange bricks are consistently near the top selling anime DVDs on Amazon, regardless of sales of other products, or new anime releases.

These aren't members of the fandom keeping sales like that consistently, that's mass market sales.

Yes I saw on Amazon and they are only $ 10 cheaper.

"clearly believe"? It's a pricing policy. the price of "Levels" seemed appropriate. I'll tempt to inform me about it. This is not simply selling 30 episodes at $20 it will make a profit. Rather, it suggests that a low price is necessary to revive the abandoned blu-rays. Price skimming.

[MarcFBR]

Yes I saw on Amazon and they are only $ 10 cheaper.

"clearly believe"? It's a pricing policy. the price of "Levels" seemed appropriate. I'll tempt to inform me about it. This is not simply selling 30 episodes at $20 it will make a profit. Rather, it suggests that a low price is necessary to revive the abandoned blu-rays. Price skimming.

That's the point. To get the mass market, the sets have to be dirt cheap. And they can't sell them dirt cheap at their old remastering budget.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

I'm having huge Nintendo Wii flashbacks right now; you're not a peon for understanding the logic behind a product decision you don't agree with.

What are you referring to? I don't think that I understand the logic behind this post

When I'm planning on buying something, I'm checking if the product meets my standards. Are you saying that due to the FUNimation's business decision I should erase 80% of my knowledge and say that cropping original aspect ratio is a good thing to do? It's simple - they didin't meet my standards, I said what I think about this and I forgot about possibility to get a good release from FUNimation. The western front is lost, now I'm planning on concentrating all my forces in the east Actually, I was more interested in pointing out "technical and artistic stupidity" (not "business stupidity")of this decision, than in this release itself. If "the logic behind a product decision" is more important for you than the product itself, it's OK for me.

By the way, only Toei Animation is able to satisfy me - original openings/endings, title cards, NEPs and 1% chance that they will use "original broadcast audio".

The biggest question: Are you all sure about why FUNimation decided to cancel the Level sets?
Maybe everything was going well but they came up with the idea to make even more money? "Hmmm... Why the hell we are spending such big amount of money on the remastering process? We can just crop it to 16:9 - fans will definitely accept it. This will be the one and only available and affordable release better that the Orange Bricks."

About fanbase: I think that 16:9 fanboys are 10x more active than we are. Maybe that's how it all started? Maybe they spammed at FUNimation and made them to change their plans?
If the 4:3 remastering process was so expensive... Why the hell they were selling one volume for ~18$?

This choice might not be the right choice for us as fans, but it's the right choice for Funimation as a company, and frankly, for DBZ as a brand.

The right choice for the fans should be the right choice for the company. But political correctness and naive acceptance wil make everything worse and worse. The only thing that pisses me off is that my demanding doesn't affect anybody, but the people's ignorance has really big impact on me...

They stopped doing the Level sets because it wasn't profitable, and with this new method they clearly believe they will be profitable.

Some proofs?

Likely much cheaper remastering.
Double the episodes at roughly the same price.

Seems like a winning product to me. I don't need to see the exact numbers to look at it from a point of business logic.

Nobody denies that. Back in the days, when capitalism was younger, people were smarter and something called morality was more present, companies were putting a big effort to make a good product to satisfy the consumers. Today, companies are making a crappy product to satisfy the consumers. The only thing I want to say: It's not good.

(excuse my bad English )

[MarcFBR]

The biggest question: Are you all sure about why FUNimation decided to cancel the Level sets?
Maybe everything was going well but they came up with the idea to make even more money? "Hmmm... Why the hell we are spending such big amount of money on the remastering process? We can just crop it to 16:9 - fans will definitely accept it. This will be the one and only available and affordable release better that the Orange Bricks."

Even if they did, that's their prerogative.

If the 4:3 remastering process was so expensive... Why the hell they were selling one volume for ~18$?

They believed they'd make it back'

The right choice for the fans should be the right choice for the company. But political correctness and naive acceptance wil make everything worse and worse. The only thing that pisses me off is that my demanding doesn't affect anybody, but the people's ignorance has really big impact on me...

I don't think some of those words mean what you think they do... And you forget... they DID do the right choice for the fans... fans didn't buy it. At that point, it's no longer about what fans want.

Some proofs?

That they waited 2 years to do these. There was no reason for them to sit around and wait.

Nobody denies that. Back in the days, when capitalism was younger, people were smarter and something called morality was more present, companies were putting a big effort to make a good product to satisfy the consumers. Today, companies are making a crappy product to satisfy the consumers. The only thing I want to say: It's not good.

But once again... they made the good product... not enough people bought it. In fact... we know they finished more episodes than they sold. The releases were apparently doing poorly enough it wasn't even worth it for them to release up to where they were (I don't remember the exact episode count, maybe someone else does, but I believe they sold the rest digitall?)

(excuse my bad English )

I believe you are Polish? Is the entire EU coming after me? Someone call Jeremy Clarkson, it's going to be me and him versus the world!

[qjz123]

I believe you are Polish? Is the entire EU coming after me? Someone call Jeremy Clarkson, it's going to me and him versus the world!

[Martinrock]

I'm having huge Nintendo Wii flashbacks right now; you're not a peon for understanding the logic behind a product decision you don't agree with.

What are you referring to? I don't think that I understand the logic behind this post

When I'm planning on buying something, I'm checking if the product meets my standards. Are you saying that due to the FUNimation's business decision I should erase 80% of my knowledge and say that cropping original aspect ratio is a good thing to do? It's simple - they didin't meet my standards, I said what I think about this and I forgot about possibility to get a good release from FUNimation. The western front is lost, now I'm planning on concentrating all my forces in the east Actually, I was more interested in pointing out "technical and artistic stupidity" (not "business stupidity")of this decision, than in this release itself. If "the logic behind a product decision" is more important for you than the product itself, it's OK for me.

By the way, only Toei Animation is able to satisfy me - original openings/endings, title cards, NEPs and 1% chance that they will use "original broadcast audio".

The biggest question: Are you all sure about why FUNimation decided to cancel the Level sets?
Maybe everything was going well but they came up with the idea to make even more money? "Hmmm... Why the hell we are spending such big amount of money on the remastering process? We can just crop it to 16:9 - fans will definitely accept it. This will be the one and only available and affordable release better that the Orange Bricks."

They may have had technical difficulties to restore the film. That's what they say.

You are right. Why would not it be profitable? In my view, the costs of restoration exceeded their expectations. They mentioned the technical difficulties which certainly affected the overall cost of the restoration.

[KingofWisdom]

Maybe everything was going well but they came up with the idea to make even more money? "Hmmm... Why the hell we are spending such big amount of money on the remastering process? We can just crop it to 16:9 - fans will definitely accept it. This will be the one and only available and affordable release better that the Orange Bricks."

Then why would they have bothered working on a 4:3 release at all to begin with?

[Kojiro Sasaki]

I don't think some of those words mean what you think they do...

Can you please explain?

I believe you are Polish? Is the entire EU coming after me? Someone call Jeremy Clarkson, it's going to be me and him versus the world!

Do I sound offensive? I thought that we are only exchanging opinions (that's what I like about this forum). Actually, I agree with you on the most parts - I'm just expressing my bad opinion about all this.
Maybe I really don't know what I'm saying?

OK, that's enough. I'm already bored with analyzing FUNimation's decisions... I need to concentrate on the letter to Toei. I'm taking all my forces* to the eastern front

* - Special Operations Group called "Dragon Ball BGM&Blu-ray Tokusentai", one member.

[MarcFBR]

I don't think some of those words mean what you think they do...

Can you please explain?

Political correctness and being naive and accepting has nothing to do with the subject at hand (likely just a translation issue.)

Do I sound offensive? I thought that we are only exchanging opinions (that's what I like about this forum). Actually, I agree with you on the most parts - I'm just expressing my bad opinion about all this.
Maybe I really don't know what I'm saying?

No, you don't sound offensive, it was purely a joke that I'm discussing/arguing this with people from both France and Poland thus far.

As for knowing what you are saying... well you said it... not me.

I think it's more a matter of people don't necessarily look at it from the business side.

[Martinrock]

I don't think some of those words mean what you think they do...

Can you please explain?

Political correctness and being naive and accepting has nothing to do with the subject at hand (likely just a translation issue.)

Do I sound offensive? I thought that we are only exchanging opinions (that's what I like about this forum). Actually, I agree with you on the most parts - I'm just expressing my bad opinion about all this.
Maybe I really don't know what I'm saying?

No, you don't sound offensive, it was purely a joke that I'm discussing/arguing this with people from both France and Poland thus far.

As for knowing what you are saying... well you said it... not me.

I think it's more a matter of people don't necessarily look at it from the business side.

Yes it's true you seem to be having a business sense out of the ordinary ...

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I'm having huge Nintendo Wii flashbacks right now; you're not a peon for understanding the logic behind a product decision you don't agree with.

What are you referring to? I don't think that I understand the logic behind this post

Yeah, that was a stretch. I'll elaborate; around 2008, when it was clear the Wii was going to keep selling huge numbers and that third party developer support wasn't going to miraculously pick up (Ignoring that it kind of did around 2010), there suddenly appeared across certain corners of the internet a widespread sense of "betrayal", that Nintendo somehow "sold out", duping their dedicated fanbase and serious game players in general in favor of the many millions of people who bought Wiis for a handful of super-selling games, mostly with "Mario" and "Wii" in the title. Since aspect ratio debates on Kanzenshuu sometimes boil down to "the REAL fans want 4:3, the stupid masses who don't know what they want want 16:9", I inevitably see the same kind of language. What pushed me into making the reference, though, at risk of throwing it over people's heads, was this line of yours;

People act like Funimation should take some moral stand about treating Dbz as a work of art instead of trying to making money.

I think that people want a solid product and they don't give a sh*** about FUNimation's money.

Gamer #1: Why is Nintendo making Wii Fit and all this casual garbage?
Gamer #2: Because their machines are selling gangbusters for the first time in a decade because of them?
Gamer #1: I don't care about Nintendo's money, I care about good games!
Gamer #2: Then Nintendo isn't selling to you right now; and I'm not a Nintendo tool for telling you that. Deal with it.

Notice the language is exactly the same? That was all.

Off-topic over!

[Kojiro Sasaki]

Political correctness and being naive and accepting has nothing to do with the subject at hand (likely just a translation issue.)

I will try to explain what I mean: Corporations have their political strategies. Politics = political correctness. Because of it, people who have strongly different opinions are considered as a nitpicky, radical and crazy extremists (this is only a contrasted example - do not take it super serious ). Because of that, some of these people are afraid to express their opinions, others do not allow themselves to think "politically incorrect". I think that this is one of the reasons why everything becomes crappier and crappier. I think that political correctness is one of the parts of naive acceptance. "A big corporation is saying this, so it have to be true".

I hate when people are called nitpicky just because they have a little bit of the basic knowledge and their rational thinking makes them to follow it.

I need to agree with Martinrock here. If we would start doing something in our interest, maybe we would be able to change their decision. MarcFBR - I'm sure that many 4:3 fans, after reading your posts, accepted your argumentation (it sounds very rational and it seems to be true) and they aren't planning on doing anything - this is what I'm talking about.

Don't forget about no ignorant people, without technical knowledge, who voted in the survey. The only thing that they have is a pseudo-technical babble about how many miraculous modern techniques will be used to make the show look "brighter and crisper". I'm sure that many of them believe that there will be no image loss in 16:9 AR. I think that if we would start a proper marketing campaign, fans of 4:3 would become the majority.

From the business point of view: It's not good for us to accept everything, because it will make them think that we will eat every crap with which they will feed us

(My limited English doesn't allow me to express everything exactly as I want to. Please, keep that in mind. Actually, one of the main reasons why I'm writing here is to learn the language )

[Kendamu]

Good point. However, we don't have to be loud to be dissatisfied. We can just not buy the product.

[MarcFBR]

Don't forget about no ignorant people, without technical knowledge, who voted in the survey. The only thing that they have is a pseudo-technical babble about how many miraculous modern techniques will be used to make the show look "brighter and crisper". I'm sure that many of them believe that there will be no image loss in 16:9 AR. I think that if we would start a proper marketing campaign, fans of 4:3 would become the majority.

From the business point of view: It's not good for us to accept everything, because it will make them think that we will eat every crap with which they will feed us

(My limited English doesn't allow me to express everything exactly as I want to. Please, keep that in mind. Actually, one of the main reasons why I'm writing here is to learn the language )

The flaw in logic here is this.

They already tried to do the release the fans wanted. It did not sell at the numbers they needed, at the price they needed, based on the level of remastering required to make it an acceptable product.

So they figured out how to make it work, and the answer was more episodes, at a lower price, aimed at the mass market.

The only way we aren't getting this release is 1- the 16:9 news was a mistake (which seems unlikely.) 2- It doesn't sell.

Random fans being loud at this point won't help, because they tried, and cancelled the attempt at doing the release for fans, because it didn't sell.

At this point Funimation has to know 100% what kind of shove back they will get from fans over 16:9, and it will have been taken into account in any numbers they come up with internally. This isn't with the orange brick where they may have been surprised at the reaction.

I mean... the set hasn't even officially been announced, has no advertising, etc. and is already nearly in the top 25 anime Blu-rays at Amazon. That tells you all you need to know (and it's at $25.)

[MuffinButton]

Forget Fanbase. I will not contact Funimation and say "I am French, I live in Paris in the 7th district and I would ...." It is email, single way to communicate with them quickly. But you did not seem to understand me when I say there is a lot of fans. I say that in the U.S. there are probably a lot too. Period. It is better here?

You really are a moron, aren't you? Funimation wants money. Funimation did not get enough money from fans buying a 4:3 Blu-Ray restoration to cover the costs of making that restoration. Now, Funimation is reducing their costs of production by formatting to widescreen to appeal to a more broad audience.

[KingofWisdom]

Hey, now. Let's try and play nice.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

The sad part is while we may get what we had before we're losing picture due to them cropping to 16x9...

Because Steve did the original remastering of the bricks, I believe he auto-cropped in which some scenes will look pretty nice(minus the horrid saturation, and brightness) and others you're saying WTF...
If they are selectively cropping and not just center cropping some care has to be put into place but how long this process takes is unknown. Also because of that are they doing it in pre-production(after FUNi has the transfer)?
I don't think we're going to go from Ultimate Uncut to crap this round but would have been nice to have the 4x3 release. Another thing comes to mind if the quality stays the same, remastering 20% over a large episode count would cost less and thus FUNi could cater to both sides of the table but unlike the season sets(which looked like vomit) at least this method actually may work.

They already have the Saiyan saga done but what I fear is the full frame wasn't restored only what you'd see on tv or the old tube style tv's.

Funimation would have saved time if they were going to restore the series and cater to both sides if they released "what they think" would be more profitable first than release the full frame version later, saves time/money and brings in more money at the same time. It's also funny that the levels ended roughly at the same time the uncut dvds stopped, than they announced 16x9.

[Kojiro Sasaki]

The sad part is while we may get what we had before we're losing picture due to them cropping to 16x9...

That's the point. In this situation: The better quality of the remastering, the more pissed off I become

They already tried to do the release the fans wanted. It did not sell at the numbers they needed, at the price they needed, based on the level of remastering required to make it an acceptable product.

1. It was a bad time for the new release.
2. It wasn't properly marketed.
3. Many fans didn't know about it.
4. The rest of them was super-skeptical about "HD remaster" from FUNimation.

After the Level sets were cancelled, I've sent more than 60 PM's with comparison shots, here on kanzenshuu, and many emails to people around the internet. They all were really surprised and stunned by this quality. Nobody expected that good old Dragon Ball can look like that. I'm sure that the sales would look totally different today. You didn't comment this:

I'm sure that many of them believe that there will be no image loss in 16:9 AR. I think that if we would start a proper marketing campaign, fans of 4:3 would become the majority.

Random fans being loud at this point won't help, because they tried, and cancelled the attempt at doing the release for fans, because it didn't sell.

Is my English really that bad? I'm saying: Lets focus on 16:9 fans! Let's explain why cropping is bad. Many of them will definitely change their minds when they will understand the problem. Storming FUNimation comes after gathering an army. Let's DO something in our interest!

I mean... the set hasn't even officially been announced, has no advertising, etc. and is already nearly in the top 25 anime Blu-rays at Amazon. That tells you all you need to know (and it's at $25.)

We are promoting it here (and there). The second argument is that only Orange Bricks are available now - this release is the only alternative. The third argument: Dragon Ball Z on Blu-ray - for many, it is enough.

But hey! Maybe they mean 16:9 with black bars at the sides?

[jjgp1112]

I don't think you understand that this community represents a vocal minority. I highly doubt that this site has much to do with the sets being pre-ordered so quickly, and if that was the case, again, THE LEVEL SETS NEVER WOULD'VE BEEN CANCELLED IN THE FIRST PLACE.