Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Z-Dragon]

What about fighting opponents thoughtout the space to get stronger? Not only any kind of trainings to get stronger, but fighting opponents to get stronger too. That's possible for Bardock to do that within 50 years or so before the tournament, but the problem is that it would be hard for him to find strong opponents to fight/train in order to become stronger since Bardock doesn't know how to sense ki.

[Tzigi]

Yup. Just ignore my "Could". I didn't say "Should". Some times waiting if better Than forcing yourself to wait. Would't be worse because waiting for a page 2- 5 days later gives time for obvious plot moments and what's about to happen. Making a spoiler. Also once again as I said. If you force yourself to wait then it'll be less "Cool" so to speak. Stop reading for 1 - 5 months just for 1 chapter is stupid. If the chapter was realsed say once every 2 - 3 months then people can enjoy the full experience of reading as if it was a real manga.

Whatever you just said is incomprehensible.

In a nutshell. Forcing to wait is worst than waiting itself. Stop reading for 1 - 5 months just for 1 chapter is stupid. If the chapter was realsed say once every 2 - 3 months then people can enjoy the full experience of reading as if it was a real manga.

I've given a few pages ago an example of a wonderfully done webcomic following the precise schedule you describe (Lackadaisy). I've described why I think it's bad. Could you give a counter-example and describe the benefits of the schedule you're advocating? As of now all I see is "I'd like it better that way and besides I can't control myself well enough not to enter a website for a given time. I prefer the author to do it for me even if it means spoiling the fun for others." - which isn't much of an argument...

Decades later and you believe that Bardock is 10,000 at his base..? Nowhere in the fan manga is stated how strong Bardock is or isn't. And he only had to be a mastered super saiyan to hold his own or be stronger than someone as strong as #16.

No, I think he's 2,000,000 in base, because that's what the novelization said. It said he was 200 times stronger than Caveman!Bardock. And Salagir said powers for alternate universe counterparts aren't different from their main counterparts unless specifically noted. Caveman!Bardock was never noted to be stronger than main Bardock, so he would be 10,000. 10,000 x 200 = 2,000,000. Weaker than Namek Goku.

So yeah, just a bunch of horseshit again. Nothing new here.

Why do people have to be so fixated on the powerlevels? It's as if Dragon Ball had nothing better to offer then... comparing numbers. You make it seem as if it was arithmetics turned into a fighting manga (I strongly believe it's much, much more).

But let's assume we take things your way (fixate on numbers), only with a better check of the sources.

Six spaces further, on the side of Son Goku, he compared this Baddack from universe 3, with one of the universe 10, with whom he had discussed less than two minutes ago. Without a shadow of a doubt, one was at least two hundred times stronger than the other. But not good... compared to him, one or the other, it was the same: they weren’t very strong.

That's the quote you were referring to. It's translated so poorly that it's near incomprehensible but we still can get the basics out of it: after the fight between u13 Raditz and u3 Bardock, u18 Goku is thinking about his father. Goku tries to estimate the power (maybe powerlevel - we can't be sure that Goku thinks in powerlevel terms here, it's been around 20 years since he last was in contact with them) that u3 Bardock possesses. Goku estimates that u3 Bardock is at least 200 times stronger then u10 Bardock.

Here was you first error: "No, I think he's 2,000,000 in base, because that's what the novelization said. It said he was 200 times stronger than Caveman!Bardock". The novelization doesn't say that u3 Bardock is precisely 200 times stronger then u10 Bardock. That's a character thinking to himself- ever heard of unreliable narrator? How do you know that Goku can correctly estimate the whole extent of the power of u3 Bardock? Now, if it was the narrator of the whole novelization or a comment by Salagir, that would be a completely different story.

And now to the second part of your error: "Caveman!Bardock was never noted to be stronger than main Bardock, so he would be 10,000."

If anything then u10 Bardock shoud be way weaker then u3 Bardock. The powerlevels for u3 that were stated by Salagir in the comments of page 471 sure have Bardock at 10,000 but it's as a result of his battle experience as stated by Bardock himself on page 456. U10 Bardock lived in a universe that had no "major dangers" (as stated on page 555) - thus he had no real chances for improvement and likely stayed a lower class warrior. The ghost Hanasia that murders the whole Saiyan race in u10 is stated explicitely to be stronger then each one of them.

Ok, so so far we've established that all we know is that u18 Goku supposed that u3 Bardock is at least 200 times stronger then a lower class Saiyan (who could well be aroung Raditz, so 1,300-1,400). That's not much. But let's see your further errors:

Even if those facts didn't exist, I still wouldn't like this fight, because Bardock has no sparring partners, no ROSAT, nothing to make him any stronger. You don't gain a bunch of power by sitting around and getting old doing MOUNTAIN TRAINING. You just don't. Goku trained alone for years between Piccolo and Raditz and he didn't get any stronger. If anything, this Bardock should be weaker, since he's 77.

Just what? If anybody then u3 Bardock had a possiblity to participate in many fights - the last page of the u3 special chapter centered on Bardock had Cooler imply that he will attack Saiyans in some not so distant future. Then, 43 years later (the Bardock special chapter takes place in 737, the Raichi special chapter - in 780), when Raichi learns that in some universes Saiyans are still alive, he says that his wish isn't yet achieved completely meaning that before that moment he had thought that all Saiyans were dead. From Bardock's statement on page 415, we learn that Saiyans lost against Raichi. This means that probably they won against Cooler and lost only to Raichi. This defeat must have taken place when Raditz was already an adult - his ghost can be seen from page 644 on as one of Raichi's servants. And Bardock survived all of this - he's still alive and kicking by the time of the DBM tournament.

What does it mean? That you third proposition is quite likely to as wrong as the earlier two. U3 Bardock probably wasn't doing MOUNTAIN TRAINING. He, as a king of the Saiyans, first had to fight Gurkin, then, quite probably, Hanasia - that already gives him sparring partners worthy of note. After that they planned to conquer the universe a la Freezer - it's possible that they even did conquer some of it. Then in all probability, the Saiyans defeated Cooler (King Cold probably also - but we've got no confirmation of it, so it's pure conjecture) only to be defeated by Raichi. Yet Bardock survived and takes part in DBM tournament. Do you still think he's so weak? I strongly doubt it.

KEEP. THAT. ARTIST.

While I don't think that anyone would be willing to work as hard as Gogeta Jr did, we can be pretty sure that this isn't the only chapter Asura will be doing. The French story from the last convention DBM staff went to (Paris Manga) has Asura as "Dessinateur de futurs divers chapitres" so "Cartoonist of various upcoming chapters". That pretty much seals it.

[TheGmGoken]

I've given a few pages ago an example of a wonderfully done webcomic following the precise schedule you describe (Lackadaisy). I've described why I think it's bad. Could you give a counter-example and describe the benefits of the schedule you're advocating? As of now all I see is "I'd like it better that way and besides I can't control myself well enough not to enter a website for a given time. I prefer the author to do it for me even if it means spoiling the fun for others." - which isn't much of an argument..

What are you talking about? Your post confused me

[Tzigi]

I've given a few pages ago an example of a wonderfully done webcomic following the precise schedule you describe (Lackadaisy). I've described why I think it's bad. Could you give a counter-example and describe the benefits of the schedule you're advocating? As of now all I see is "I'd like it better that way and besides I can't control myself well enough not to enter a website for a given time. I prefer the author to do it for me even if it means spoiling the fun for others." - which isn't much of an argument..

What are you talking about? Your post confused me

How much easier am I supposed to write so that you'll understand?
But let's try - this time in points:
1. You want DBM to be posted in batches i.e. one chapter every few months.
2. You want it because you like this schedule.
3. You can't control yourself and not access the DBM page for several months so you want Salagir to limit the access to DBM for you so that the schedule would fit you.
4. You don't care about how this schedule will impact others - you think that if it will be good for you, it will be also good for the others.
5. On page 803 I've given several arguments against this schedule - aguments based less on personal preference and more on empirical evidence.
6. You continued arguing with rereboy without ever answering my question - can you direct us toward a webcomic that's successfull in following such a schedule that you like?
7. I restated my question and asked you to describe what are the benefits (i.e. what are the good parts) of the schedule you're proposing because so far all the arguments you have stated were based on your preferences and thus not verifiable.

What is there not to understand?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Why do people have to be so fixated on the powerlevels?

Why do people care that people like to discuss power levels so much? Honestly I've never really understood why people get so offended by this. People care because logical scaling gives the series substance. I realize this is a gag manga, but people still like good writing. Decent scaling in a manga full of super powered beings is kinda necessary .

[TheGmGoken]

How much easier am I supposed to write so that you'll understand?

Excuse me for not understanding the english language.

2. You want it because you like this schedule. 3. You can't control yourself and not access the DBM page for several months so you want Salagir to limit the access to DBM for you so that the schedule would fit you.

I never said I did. It was an idea. Also that's selfish. Besides the schedule want it NOTHING like the one I suggested. So no the one I suggested isn't for me.

4. You don't care about how this schedule will impact others - you think that if it will be good for you, it will be also good for the others.

I do care. I've seen people complain on the main site, this site, Youtube, other DB sites, and certain fanfic sites. Never said this was good for me. I saw how people reacted so I came up with an idea that I thought was good.

5. On page 803 I've given several arguments against this schedule - aguments based less on personal preference and more on empirical evidence.

I know about that debate. DBZFan7 said something and all I said was that the topic has been rbought up a lot lately and then I put my minor input.

6. You continued arguing with rereboy without ever answering my question - can you direct us toward a webcomic that's successfull in following such a schedule that you like?

Your question? What question did you ask? I don't even remember you asking that question. I most likely never even saw your post with that question. So it's not like I'm avoding the question. In fact the last time I saw you it was on Youtube when you kept spamming on Vegeto's(Not website owner) video about GT canon.

7. I restated my question and asked you to describe what are the benefits (i.e. what are the good parts) of the schedule you're proposing because so far all the arguments you have stated were based on your preferences and thus not verifiable.

I never based it off of my preferences. I just saw how the people was reacting so I put in my input.

What is there not to understand?

The first post was hard to understand since I'm not that good at english and hard for me to understand. Especially the way you came from no where

[dario03]

Why do people have to be so fixated on the powerlevels?

Why do people care that people like to discuss power levels so much? Honestly I've never really understood why people get so offended by this. People care because logical scaling gives the series substance. I realize this is a gag manga, but people still like good writing. Decent scaling in a manga full of super powered beings is kinda necessary .

I wouldn't really say the series has logical scaling though. Just look at some of the crazy gains that pop up. Like how Vegeta who has been fighting his whole life was only at 18,000 when he comes to Earth but yet 6 days later his power level is in the millions. Or look at how without Kaio Ken Goku was less than half Vegeta's strength but Vegeta doesn't just completely destroy him like he does to Kui and Dodoria who were what 18,000 and 22,000 compared to Vegeta's 24,000.

Yeah theres nothing wrong with discussing power levels but I don't see why some people don't think its possible for a SS Bardock to match King Cold who is around android 16.

[TheGmGoken]

Vegeta who has been fighting his whole life was only at 18,000 when he comes to Earth but yet 6 days later his power level is in the millions.

It was a week and a month. Plus Zenaki.

Or look at how without Kaio Ken Goku was less than half Vegeta's strength but Vegeta doesn't just completely destroy him like he does to Kui and Dodoria who were what 18,000 and 22,000 compared to Vegeta's 24,000.

Goku has better fighting skills, more durable, AND Vegeta was toying with him.

[dario03]

Wasn't really counting travel time but fine a month and a week or just say the jump was from 24,000 to millions. Zenkai doesn't really matter since this was a discussion of logic and zenkais are basically just a excuse for random power level jumps.

[TheGmGoken]

Wasn't really counting travel time but fine a month and a week or just say the jump was from 24,000 to millions. Zenkai doesn't really matter since this was a discussion of logic and zenkais are basically just a excuse for random power level jumps.

Still. Zenkai(s) do matter. Get beat up and don't die. Come back stronger! What don't kills you make you stronger.

[Tzigi]

Your question? What question did you ask? I don't even remember you asking that question. I most likely never even saw your post with that question. So it's not like I'm avoding the question. In fact the last time I saw you it was on Youtube when you kept spamming on Vegeto's(Not website owner) video about GT canon.

How can you ask "What question did you ask?" just when I've restated the question once again? Its first formulation was " Have you ever really tried following a webcomic with such irregular schedule? Have you tried to stay attached to the characters, not to forget the intricacies of the plot?". Its second formulation was "I've given a few pages ago an example of a wonderfully done webcomic following the precise schedule you describe (Lackadaisy). I've described why I think it's bad. Could you give a counter-example and describe the benefits of the schedule you're advocating?". Its third formulation was "[C]an you direct us toward a webcomic that's successfull in following such a schedule that you like?".

Why do people have to be so fixated on the powerlevels?

Why do people care that people like to discuss power levels so much? Honestly I've never really understood why people get so offended by this. People care because logical scaling gives the series substance. I realize this is a gag manga, but people still like good writing. Decent scaling in a manga full of super powered beings is kinda necessary .

I don't have problems with discussing powerlevels per se. I can't stand it when they replace all other discussion - here the problem was that the upcoming fight was bashed only on the ground of arithmetics. Also for me anyone who takes powerlevels seriously misunderstands DB sorely - the powerlevels are there to show that they're useless and not to provide "a logical scaling". Just think about it: the whole advantage of Earthlings on Namek was precisely this - the ability to change their ki at will thus negating the usefullness of scouters. So, if powerlevels served mostly to show how narrow-minded Freezer's soldiers were, why should we really care about them in discussions?

[TheGmGoken]

How can you ask "What question did you ask?" just when I've restated the question once again? Its first formulation was " Have you ever really tried following a webcomic with such irregular schedule? Have you tried to stay attached to the characters, not to forget the intricacies of the plot?". Its second formulation was "I've given a few pages ago an example of a wonderfully done webcomic following the precise schedule you describe (Lackadaisy). I've described why I think it's bad. Could you give a counter-example and describe the benefits of the schedule you're advocating?". Its third formulation was "[C]an you direct us toward a webcomic that's successfull in following such a schedule that you like?"

I asked it as if we was in the past. When did you ask me that question the first time? I never saw a post with a question like that. I can name many fan-comics that has a weekly schedule for chapters(Since that's the schedule I like). But I don't think you want that OR you're talking about the schedule I suggested which is NOT the one I like the most despite you trying to make it seem like it.

[dario03]

Wasn't really counting travel time but fine a month and a week or just say the jump was from 24,000 to millions. Zenkai doesn't really matter since this was a discussion of logic and zenkais are basically just a excuse for random power level jumps.

Still. Zenkai(s) do matter. Get beat up and don't die. Come back stronger! What don't kills you make you stronger.

However the amount of the zenkai is basically random. The 18,000 jump to 24,000, then to ~32,000, then to ~250,000-~500,000, then to millions. Goku did nothing but train and fight his whole life and almost died a fair bit of times but yet his power level was just over 400 by the time Raditz showed up. How come his zenkais were so low then? Sure you could say that they get bigger at certain points of power but that just sounds like a plot device. And theres also the human's going from sub 300 to over 1,000 in less than a year despite them basically just doing what Goku had done earlier. They're not even saiyans and don't get zenkais so how did they surpass Goku's previous level of power. Goku didn't become over 4x as strong training at the lookout. Yeah theres always a way to explain the increases but they're not very logical and basically are just there to fit the story.

[TheGmGoken]

Wasn't really counting travel time but fine a month and a week or just say the jump was from 24,000 to millions. Zenkai doesn't really matter since this was a discussion of logic and zenkais are basically just a excuse for random power level jumps.

Still. Zenkai(s) do matter. Get beat up and don't die. Come back stronger! What don't kills you make you stronger.

However the amount of the zenkai is basically random. The 18,000 jump to 24,000, then to ~32,000, then to ~250,000-~500,000, then to millions. Goku did nothing but train and fight his whole life and almost died a fair bit of times but yet his power level was just over 400 by the time Raditz showed up. How come his zenkais were so low then? Sure you could say that they get bigger at certain points of power but that just sounds like a plot device. And theres also the human's going from sub 300 to over 1,000 in less than a year despite them basically just doing what Goku had done earlier. They're not even saiyans and don't get zenkais so how did they surpass Goku's previous level of power. Goku didn't become over 4x as strong. Yeah theres always a way to explain the increases but they're not very logical and basically are just there to fit the story.

My last post wasn't suppose to be serious. Hence the quote and the " "

[TheMightyOzaru]

Why do people have to be so fixated on the powerlevels?

Why do people care that people like to discuss power levels so much? Honestly I've never really understood why people get so offended by this. People care because logical scaling gives the series substance. I realize this is a gag manga, but people still like good writing. Decent scaling in a manga full of super powered beings is kinda necessary .

I don't have problems with discussing powerlevels per se. I can't stand it when they replace all other discussion - here the problem was that the upcoming fight was bashed only on the ground of arithmetics. Also for me anyone who takes powerlevels seriously misunderstands DB sorely - the powerlevels are there to show that they're useless and not to provide "a logical scaling". Just think about it: the whole advantage of Earthlings on Namek was precisely this - the ability to change their ki at will thus negating the usefullness of scouters. So, if powerlevels served mostly to show how narrow-minded Freezer's soldiers were, why should we really care about them in discussions?

Power Level fluctuation doesn't remove the fact that power levels exist. Numbers aside though, power scaling discussions do hold substance, and some people like the power side of the series. I for one enjoy all aspects of the series so power discussions are both important and fun to me.

[dario03]

My last post wasn't suppose to be serious. Hence the quote and the " "

Ok, well then ignoring logic or even using DBZ logic Bardock could become that powerful in such a large amount of time. Heck we don't even know for sure that zenkai's stop or become lessened, maybe he found some strong opponents and got a few of those.

[Tzigi]

How can you ask "What question did you ask?" just when I've restated the question once again? Its first formulation was " Have you ever really tried following a webcomic with such irregular schedule? Have you tried to stay attached to the characters, not to forget the intricacies of the plot?". Its second formulation was "I've given a few pages ago an example of a wonderfully done webcomic following the precise schedule you describe (Lackadaisy). I've described why I think it's bad. Could you give a counter-example and describe the benefits of the schedule you're advocating?". Its third formulation was "[C]an you direct us toward a webcomic that's successfull in following such a schedule that you like?"

I asked it as if we was in the past. When did you ask me that question the first time? I never saw a post with a question like that. I can name many fan-comics that has a weekly schedule for chapters(Since that's the schedule I like). But I don't think you want that OR you're talking about the schedule I suggested which is NOT the one I like the most despite you trying to make it seem like it.

1. I already linked the comment to you today already once...
2. I asked that question for the first time 3 days ago aka "Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:16 pm" if you want to be precise.
3. I'm really curious about the fancomics that are successfull with a batches upload schedule. So go ahead, link to them.
4. A chapter a week? IIRC in DBM the fastest release time of a chapter ever was 20 days (i.e. almost three weeks). And it was the shortest chapter too - one with only 9 pages compared to the standard ~24 pages. So, for a standard chapter one would probably wait almost 3 times longer - two months (60 days) for one chapter...

[TheGmGoken]

1. I already linked the comment to you today already once...

Can't see links.

2. I asked that question for the first time 3 days ago aka "Wed Oct 23, 2013 8:16 pm" if you want to be precise.

Was it directed to me? If so I didn't see it(As said earlier). If it wasn't I most likely skipped over it thinking it was a different subject.

3. I'm really curious about the fancomics that are successfull with a batches upload schedule. So go ahead, link to them.

Still don't know which one you want. The one I suggested. Or the one that I actually like.

4. A chapter a week? IIRC in DBM the fastest release time of a chapter ever was 20 days (i.e. almost three weeks). And it was the shortest chapter too - one with only 9 pages compared to the standard ~24 pages. So, for a standard chapter one would probably wait almost 3 times longer - two months (60 days) for one chapter..

I NEVER suggested a chapter a week. I said that would be my favorite release time. Never said it'll work for DBM. So IDK why you think I was talking about DBM. Plus my favorite fan comics did a once a week thing as well. They're Korean Fan comics though. So going back to point 3. Don't think you would want those. Also why are you doing things in bullet form?

[rereboy]

As soon as he acquired SSJ, he received no more Zenkais. Ok, even if we don't take it so literally, he's still within the range of 200 times stronger than normal ol' Bardock. People can take issue with this if they want. The power scaling in this comic has been garbage at times prior to this.

So? Even if you believe in the no zenkais after SSJ thing, you have no way to know what kind of training, fights and zenkais he had even before he reached SSJ. So, what exactly is the problem...?

If any problem exists is Cold's power since the explanation given for why he is this powerful doesn't explain properly the difference between this Cold and the one we saw in the original manga. No such problem exists for this Bardock and an explanation for his power is pretty simple to imagine like I've mentioned.

[Z-Dragon]