The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

I remember seeing someone theorize that Hirudegarn's power dropped a lot after Trunks cut his tail off. I haven't seen the movie in years though, so I don't really have an opinion either way.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I remember seeing someone theorize that Hirudegarn's power dropped a lot after Trunks cut his tail off. I haven't seen the movie in years though, so I don't really have an opinion either way.

It's possible, but I don't think it would cut his power THAT much.

[Kamiccolo9]

I remember seeing someone theorize that Hirudegarn's power dropped a lot after Trunks cut his tail off. I haven't seen the movie in years though, so I don't really have an opinion either way.

It's possible, but I don't think it would cut his power THAT much.

Who knows? He's a giant ghost demon bug thing. We don't really know how his biology works

[rereboy]

He's not stronger because he isn't stronger. Goku's ability to tank things has nothing do with his battle power, as scene in many of the movies. Is base Goku stronger than FPSSJ Gohan? No. I would also like to point out that Vegeta did better than both Gotenks and Gohan in movie 13. Is he stronger than Gohan and Gotenks? I would hope you'd know the answer to that question. My opinions aren't baseless when they are backed up by multiple movies. If you want to believe Goku is stronger than Gohan just cuz he tanked a few of Hirudegarns hits, be my guest, but don't claim my opinions are baseless just because you don't agree with them. Gohan is stronger IMO and that's that.

I mentioned "baseless" because there's nothing in the movie putting Gohan above SSJ3 Goku. And you know that's true. You claim that he is stronger simply because he is stronger in the manga and you just try to justify the rest with it being Toei's inconsistencies.

And yes, if Vegeta has better feats than Gohan in the movie, I put him above Gohan. Just like I put Vegeta above Gohan in movie 8 because he seems to do better than Gohan in movie 8. Or should I put Gohan above Vegeta and above everyone else in movie 8 just because that's how it was in the manga?

The movies are completely separate from the manga, what is in the manga, doesn't have to be in the movies, its a different world.

You forget this and so you adhere to preconceptions like Gohan is the strongest because he is Mystic Gohan and he was the strongest in the manga and then you try to rationalize the inconsistencies.

[TheGmGoken]

Just like I put Vegeta above Gohan in movie 8 because he seems to do better than Gohan in movie 8. Or should I put Gohan above Vegeta and above everyone else in movie 8 just because that's how it was in the manga?

What did Vegeta do in Movie 8 that Gohan didn't do? Both got their asses kick.

[TheMightyOzaru]

He's not stronger because he isn't stronger. Goku's ability to tank things has nothing do with his battle power, as scene in many of the movies. Is base Goku stronger than FPSSJ Gohan? No. I would also like to point out that Vegeta did better than both Gotenks and Gohan in movie 13. Is he stronger than Gohan and Gotenks? I would hope you'd know the answer to that question. My opinions aren't baseless when they are backed up by multiple movies. If you want to believe Goku is stronger than Gohan just cuz he tanked a few of Hirudegarns hits, be my guest, but don't claim my opinions are baseless just because you don't agree with them. Gohan is stronger IMO and that's that.

I mentioned "baseless" because there's nothing in the movie putting Gohan above SSJ3 Goku. And you know that's true. You claim that he is stronger simply because he is stronger in the manga and you just try to justify the rest with it being Toei's inconsistencies.

And yes, if Vegeta has better feats than Gohan in the movie, I put him above Gohan. Just like I put Vegeta above Gohan in movie 8 because he seems to do better than Gohan in movie 8. Or should I put Gohan above Vegeta and above everyone else in movie 8 just because that's how it was in the manga?
The movies are completely separate from the manga, what is in the manga, doesn't have to be in the movies, its a different world.

You forget this and so you adhere to preconceptions like Gohan is the strongest because he is Mystic Gohan and he was the strongest in the manga and then you try to rationalize the inconsistencies.

Since when do I have to use proof solely from movie 13 to support my point? I didn't know this rule existed, can you point me to where it's stated? You have SSJ2 Vegeta above Ultimate Gohan in movie 13.... Ok, I'm not even going to bother with you .

Just like I put Vegeta above Gohan in movie 8 because he seems to do better than Gohan in movie 8. Or should I put Gohan above Vegeta and above everyone else in movie 8 just because that's how it was in the manga?

What did Vegeta do in Movie 8 that Gohan didn't do? Both got their asses kick.

He seems to be under the impression that Gohan has to be a FPSSJ in this movie even though Movie 8 doesn't match up with the events of the manga at this point. If it did, Gohan and Goku would be constantly SSJs.

[rereboy]

Just like I put Vegeta above Gohan in movie 8 because he seems to do better than Gohan in movie 8. Or should I put Gohan above Vegeta and above everyone else in movie 8 just because that's how it was in the manga?

What did Vegeta do in Movie 8 that Gohan didn't do? Both got their asses kick.

Actually landed a few hits? I don't even remember Gohan landing hits on Brolly, but I might be remembering incorrectly. I think that Vegeta was slightly harder to KO than Gohan, though.

Anyway, my point was that, following the manga, Gohan is the strongest of all of them. But in the movie he appears to be the weakest. Should I consider him the strongest because that's how it was the manga? Yeah, I don't think so.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Just like I put Vegeta above Gohan in movie 8 because he seems to do better than Gohan in movie 8. Or should I put Gohan above Vegeta and above everyone else in movie 8 just because that's how it was in the manga?

What did Vegeta do in Movie 8 that Gohan didn't do? Both got their asses kick.

Actually landed a few hits? I don't even remember Gohan landing hits on Brolly, but I might be remembering incorrectly. I think that Vegeta was slightly harder to KO than Gohan, though.

Anyway, my point was that, following the manga, Gohan is the strongest of all of them. But in the movie he appears to be the weakest. Should I consider him the strongest because that's how it was the manga? Yeah, I don't think so.

Except Gohan isn't necessarily a FPSSJ since the events in the manga don't match Movie 8. I don't see blonde hair on Goku and Gohan all the time so what reason do I or anyone have to believe they are FPSSJs in this movie? Secondly, this can be used as proof that Gohan has shit durability no matter what movie he's in soooooooooo....

[rereboy]

Since when do I have to use proof solely from movie 13 to support my point? I didn't know this rule existed, can you point me to where it's stated? You have SSJ2 Vegeta above Ultimate Gohan in movie 13.... Ok, I'm not even going to bother with you .

You don't have to do anything. You seemed hang up on the fact that I said "baseless" so I explained why I said baseless in my post.

And yes, don't bother. That's always easier than finding a reason for Vegeta having to be above Gohan in the movie, other than just because that's how it was in the manga. Even though the movie is not in the same world as in the manga. And even though Toei, even in others movies, doesn't bother to follow obvious power level scaling from the manga or making Gohan as strong as he should. Hmm.

He seems to be under the impression that Gohan has to be a FPSSJ in this movie even though Movie 8 doesn't match up with the events of the manga at this point. If it did, Gohan and Goku would be constantly SSJs.

Gohan's hairstyle is the same as when he left ROSAT as a FPSSJ. And he wasn't even a SSJ before going in there, but he is a SSJ in the movie. So, the most fitting time period is after they left ROSAT before the Cell games.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Most people just assume he's mid ROSAT. He's not constantly a SSJ so assuming he's a FPSSJ is pretty silly.

Since when do I have to use proof solely from movie 13 to support my point? I didn't know this rule existed, can you point me to where it's stated? You have SSJ2 Vegeta above Ultimate Gohan in movie 13.... Ok, I'm not even going to bother with you .

You don't have to do anything. You seemed hang up on the fact that I said "baseless" so I explained why I said baseless in my post.

Your explanation is flawed. I can use examples from other films to support my point if I want. Goku's endured attacks at least 10 times his strength and stood up afterward. The same cannot be said for Gohan in really any of the 14 films.

[rereboy]

Except Gohan isn't necessarily a FPSSJ since the events in the manga don't match Movie 8. I don't see blonde hair on Goku and Gohan all the time so what reason do I or anyone have to believe they are FPSSJs in this movie? Secondly, this can be used as proof that Gohan has shit durability no matter what movie he's in soooooooooo....

Yeah, ignore Gohan's hairstyle and the fact that he wasn't even a SSJ before entering ROSAT.

Oh, I see, he has shit durability, so he must stronger than Goku in movie 13. Why? Oh, because he has better feats than Goku in the mov... Oh wait, its just because he was stronger in the manga.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Except Gohan isn't necessarily a FPSSJ since the events in the manga don't match Movie 8. I don't see blonde hair on Goku and Gohan all the time so what reason do I or anyone have to believe they are FPSSJs in this movie? Secondly, this can be used as proof that Gohan has shit durability no matter what movie he's in soooooooooo....

Yeah, ignore Gohan's hairstyle and the fact that he wasn't even a SSJ before entering ROSAT.

Yeah, ignore the fact that FPSSJs are constantly SSJs . Do you even know what mid ROSAT means?

[rereboy]

Most people just assume he's mid ROSAT. He's not constantly a SSJ so assuming he's a FPSSJ is pretty silly.

Oh, so no one in the Buu saga is a FPSSJ? Being constantly in SSJ is a requirement right?

And it has nothing to do with Toei just wanting to have Goku and Gohan transform for the cool factor when things got more serious, which couldn't happen if they were in SSj from the get go, right?

Btw, I suppose that the characteristic relaxed look of FPSSJ in Gohan's expression in movie 8 is just a fluke:



That screams mid ROSAT and never FPSSJ, right?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Most people just assume he's mid ROSAT. He's not constantly a SSJ so assuming he's a FPSSJ is pretty silly.

Oh, so no one in the Buu saga is a FPSSJ? Being constantly in SSJ is a requirement right?

And it has nothing to do with Toei just wanting to have Goku and Gohan transform for the cool factor when things got more serious, which couldn't happen if they were in SSj from the get go.

Btw, I suppose that the characteristic relaxed look of FPSSJ in Gohan's expression in movie 8 is just a fluke:

Yeah, they don't have to do that afterward, but guess what they are up to the Cell Games? Oh yes, SSJs. Toei also didn't know how strong Gohan and Goku were by the time the movie was released. Hmm yes the expression on his face totally means he's a FPSSJ! Toei is using the designs of their rested states because that's what they had available at the time.

[rereboy]

Right, rationalize away whatever you need to fit into your views. You are free to do so.

I prefer to go by what is right in front of me.

As such, I'm my view, In movie 8, they are how they are after ROSAT (aka FPSSJ all around), but this is another reality, so, here, Gohan is not the strongest at all.

Simple really.

And for movie 13? Same thing. They are as they are after Buu, but this is another reality, so, here, Gohan is not the strongest at all.

Very simple, really. Actually much easier than try to rationalize preconceptions that we already have from the manga and that are quite obviously not followed faithfully in the movies. But to each his own.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yes indeed, to each his own. If you want to take everything at face value, so be it. I, however, don't role that way. NOW! Back to the topic at hand:
Hell Fighter 17 vs Pure Buu

[rereboy]

Yes indeed, to each his own. If you want to take everything at face value, so be it. I, however, don't role that way. NOW! Back to the topic at hand:
Hell Fighter 17 vs Pure Buu

I don't take EVERYTHING at face value, I've just long learned that its pointless to try to rationalize certain things that weren't made with that concern in mind and its pointless to mold them into what we think it should be.

Pure Buu is stronger, I think. And he is ridiculously hard to kill. And he has absorption.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I wouldn't say it's pointless, I mean, I seem to have been able to do it.

[Kid Buu]

SSJ2 Kid Gohan (With Goku holding his hand) Vs. Broly, Cell, Dabura, & Bojack in a handicap match.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SSJ2 Kid Gohan (With Goku holding his hand) Vs. Broly, Cell, Dabura, & Bojack in a handicap match.

Is this M10 Broly and SPC? If so, Cell and Broly are too much for Gohan if they double-team him. If this is just M8 Broly and Perfect Cell, Gohan's gonna have a field day.