Next-gen DBZ games & potential improvements

[KentalSSJ6]

If we get Tenkaichi 3 in HD, this will likely be what it looks like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXVr58Rm ... j9gG3_6ZUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrcW4IpW ... j9gG3_6ZUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnxrvgE5 ... j9gG3_6ZUA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SjlLFt8 ... j9gG3_6ZUA

[Quebaz]

Bunch of Stuff.org

Yes, I was talking primarly about the Sparking/RB series. The Budokai series (atleast its latest incarnations) have distinguished the characters well enough, however, It still feels like something is something, I just can't put my finger on it, but I still that the engine could still be improved much more, one being making the specials more part of the overall moveset, like I said, SB2 was heading in a right direction (best budokai game IMO).

Also, about specials being a game inside a game, take a look at RB2 for example, in that game the melee is pretty much straight foward, you have your normal 5 attacks, then you can follow up, along with the signature skills wich were a needed addition for the series, which overall works as intended, however, the moment you try to make a super between your melee combos (for example a rush), your character completely stops what he's doing and starts the attack animation (like, the minicutscene of them shouting something), that alone breaks the pace because it happens so slow, your opponent has time to quick-rise and guard. That always bothered me to be honest. It always seemed like, unless you were suposed to use that attack (like, using a smash attack 4 wich leaved the opponent wide open), you couldn't be using the 2 at the same time (if that makes any sense).

[GogetaSSJ2]

If sales continue to falter, or stagnate and Namco Bandai is contractually forced to continue making games expect a lot of titles that look like they could've run on the PS2.

Ooooooooooh BURN!!!!!

[Rukura]

If we get Tenkaichi 3 in HD, this will likely be what it looks like.

*snip YouTube links of emulated upscales*

Not really. For one, the character models will have some sort of light new shade applied, or gloss, like in the Budokai one, to kinda disguise some of the jaggedness. There's also camera and background stuff to take care of. And who knows if there's any issue with the soundtrack, although it would ideally need to have the original Sparking! Meteor soundtrack as an option.

[KentalSSJ6]

If we get Tenkaichi 3 in HD, this will likely be what it looks like.

*snip YouTube links of emulated upscales*

Not really. For one, the character models will have some sort of light new shade applied, or gloss, like in the Budokai one, to kinda disguise some of the jaggedness. There's also camera and background stuff to take care of. And who knows if there's any issue with the soundtrack, although it would ideally need to have the original Sparking! Meteor soundtrack as an option.

Hence the reason I said "likely".

[Ajay]

I highly doubt we'll go back to the cel-shaded look that we saw in the Budokai series. That style and its simplicity is generally used to save poly counts and allow for better performance from the current gen consoles.

With next gen, devs are looking to wow people with fancy new graphics and that art style really has its limits. Sure, you could get some better highlights and textures that aren't a muddy mess but it's not something that immediately strikes the casual gamer as 'next gen'.

What we're likely to see is an art style not too far removed from the upcoming J-Stars Victory Vs game. It's fully 3D looking, almost as though it's jumped straight out of ZBrush and allows for realistic, softer shadows that, when rendered out at a high enough resolution with all your fancy shaders and various map types, will result in something that really stands out as 'next gen'.

I mean take a look:



Imagine that in 1080p at 60fps with softer shadows and better clarity. Heck, throw in some cloth simulation for the hell of it. You're getting something that the average gamer is going to go 'holy fuck!' at.

[KentalSSJ6]

I highly doubt we'll go back to the cel-shaded look that we saw in the Budokai series. That style and its simplicity is generally used to save poly counts and allow for better performance from the current gen consoles.

With next gen, devs are looking to wow people with fancy new graphics and that art style really has its limits. Sure, you could get some better highlights and textures that aren't a muddy mess but it's not something that immediately strikes the casual gamer as 'next gen'.

What we're likely to see is an art style not too far removed from the upcoming J-Stars Victory Vs game. It's fully 3D looking, almost as though it's jumped straight out of ZBrush and allows for realistic, softer shadows that, when rendered out at a high enough resolution with all your fancy shaders and various map types, will result in something that really stands out as 'next gen'.

I mean take a look:



Imagine that in 1080p at 60fps with softer shadows and better clarity. Heck, throw in some cloth simulation for the hell of it. You're getting something that the average gamer is going to go 'holy fuck!' at.

I wonder if well get a US version of J Stars. Hopefully so because I really wanna play this game.

[TheGmGoken]

, go to nearly any DBZ game video on youtube and top comments are almost always about Tenkaichi HD Collection (though only 3 is the only one needed).

It may be a gamble, but if they actually did make a HD Tenkaichi 3 with online (and it could have online as the Wii version did), maybe the sales would be enough to warrant another new DBZ game with more effort put into it.

I have to disagree. I prefer Tenkaichi 2 over Tenkaichi 3. So having Both(Since they half assed Budokai "collection") would be wonderful.

lso with next Gen. I honestly think they're going to half ass us. BUT seeing as BoG has been a hit. I can expect an increase of sales in a BoG based games(BOZ). However the gameplay is going to turn people off OR some excuse from fans that will lower the seqeul sales which lowers the budget which makes them lazy.

[dbboxkaifan]

DBZ for the past few years has been doing terribly and if it continues like this it's only going to get worse. Forget about next-gen DBZ, focus on DBZ or else just kill it since it's not lucrative to keep it a yearly game.

They just need two things:

To have Dimps make an all-new fighting game with lots of time to do it. While Dimps does their thing, Namco Bandai releases something that will land them a bigger budget for the Dimps' game:

Dragon Ball Z HD Collection: Super Dragon Ball Z + Infinite World + Sparking! Meteor/BT3. It gives all the Tenkaichi fans what they've been asking for since the Budokai HD Collection, it gives DBZ fans that would now be interested in a Street Fighter-style Dragon Ball game something new (to them) to get into, even more so if it had online play, and it gives the fans that have been asking for Budokai 4 what they want. Makes a profit for Namco AND holds everyone out until the new game comes out.

I personally wouldn't buy it because I have a PS3 60GB (yes there's people with PS3 60GBs that actually work they're not all YLODED/dead) which makes PS2 games look great in HD and let's not forget that SUPER DRAGON BALL Z, INFINITE WORLD and TENKAICHI 3 would have tracks replaced because they were originally composed by Kenji Yamamoto.

DBZ games that have the music swapped, I just refuse to buy them.

The other day I was testing out Budokai 1 and graphically compared to the screens/footage I've seen of it, it looked like the HD Collection so I got the better deal out of it. HD + Kenji Yamamoto! ^_^

[Hellspawn28]

I think doing game once every two or three years is better. Another reason I believe DBZ games these days sell poorly because people got burn out by them. We get a new one every year and it got really boring playing almost the game every year. I was getting burn out by DBZ games by 2007 when the third Sparking game came out. If BOZ sells well then I hope for a sequel sometime in 2016 instead.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

I highly doubt we'll go back to the cel-shaded look that we saw in the Budokai series. That style and its simplicity is generally used to save poly counts and allow for better performance from the current gen consoles.

With next gen, devs are looking to wow people with fancy new graphics and that art style really has its limits. Sure, you could get some better highlights and textures that aren't a muddy mess but it's not something that immediately strikes the casual gamer as 'next gen'.

What we're likely to see is an art style not too far removed from the upcoming J-Stars Victory Vs game. It's fully 3D looking, almost as though it's jumped straight out of ZBrush and allows for realistic, softer shadows that, when rendered out at a high enough resolution with all your fancy shaders and various map types, will result in something that really stands out as 'next gen'.

I mean take a look:



Imagine that in 1080p at 60fps with softer shadows and better clarity. Heck, throw in some cloth simulation for the hell of it. You're getting something that the average gamer is going to go 'holy fuck!' at.

So why aren't they focusing on the PC gaming market then if they're just trying to wow us with gfx? The Xbox one, Ps4, and even last gen was not a power house in gfx. By the time the consoles were released the hardware was already outdated, it was outdated in 2005 and man we're in 2013 still getting ps3/360 titles? The Ps4/xbox one already confirmed by developers it can not handle 1080p and that's been a thing since the early 2000s? They were built as close to a PC as possible and still not possible, jesus even intel hd 4600 can do 1080p albet like crap though. Expect another round of 720p when 4k will be the norm in a few years.

They could save time by using open and available engines vs custom to save on production costs and producing on the PC would bring in sales and would be neat.

[Ajay]

So why aren't they focusing on the PC gaming market then if they're just trying to wow us with gfx? The Xbox one, Ps4, and even last gen was not a power house in gfx. By the time the consoles were released the hardware was already outdated, it was outdated in 2005 and man we're in 2013 still getting ps3/360 titles? The Ps4/xbox one already confirmed by developers it can not handle 1080p and that's been a thing since the early 2000s? They were built as close to a PC as possible and still not possible, jesus even intel hd 4600 can do 1080p albet like crap though. Expect another round of 720p when 4k will be the norm in a few years.

They could save time by using open and available engines vs custom to save on production costs and producing on the PC would bring in sales and would be neat.

Because Japan's PC gaming market is tiny and fighting games on the PC are only just beginning to explode.

Yes, it's true this generation of consoles has lasted far too long but your facts aren't entirely correct regarding resolution. The PS3 had a fair few early titles that were 1080p prior to a preference over looks than resolution (e.g. Virtua Tennis 3). Regarding the upcoming generation, it depends heavily on the game. Some developers are choosing a lower resolution so they can pump a better overall look into their game, whilst others are preferring the crispness of 1080p over better graphical fidelity.

For example, near enough every PS4 launch title is running natively at 1080p - Killzone: Shadow Fall (30fps single player, 60fps multiplayer), Thief, AC4, Blacklight: Retribution and many more. It's only titles like Ryse: Son of Rome and Killer Instinct that are confirmed to be a lower resolution.

Many of these titles are also hitting 60fps so don't misjudge the power of the upcoming consoles. They certainly don't compare to your high end gaming PC but don't forget the insane optimisation you can do when you're only having to focus on one piece of hardware rather than the millions of combinations everyone has in the PC gaming world.

In some years time, when developers choose for graphics to take precedence over performance, we'll likely see a return to 30fps but that's simply the nature of consoles and if console gamers truly had problems with this, they can always switch to PC. There's no use kicking up a fuss over a certain group of gamers. Consoles have their place in the market and always will but with the new architecture strongly resembling that of your standard 64-bit PC, we're likely to see many more PC ports this generation so we have nothing to complain about.

I'm a PC gamer, I understand your points but it reeks of 'PC masterrace' rather than something involving facts. Regarding your final point, 4K is long way off yet and certainly won't be taking over 1080p with the general consumer anytime soon but that's whole other area of debate.

But yes, I'd love J-Stars on PC just as much as you would but unless it's a huge hit like Injustice and King of Fighters was, it's probably not going to warrant a PC release. Who knows? Like I said at the start, fighting games on the PC are only just beginning to explode with titles like Skullgirls, Injustice, Mortal Kombat and KoF all being given PC releases. So far, they've had some strong responses so it's a possibility for J-Stars if the game is as popular internationally as I hope it will be.

[Thanos]

I'm hoping they don't get tempted to do what they did with Raging Blast 2 and utilize the better technology in all the wrong ways--making everything smooth, with fancy shading and detail. It's a good idea, but not for a game based on a cartoon. My hope is that the next generation Dragon Ball games utilize the new technology in improving the appearance to mimic the show, rather than trying to make it look all fancy-like. I'd rather play the Budokai 2 intro than the Sparking! one, if that makes any sense.

[dbboxkaifan]

I wonder if well get a US version of J Stars. Hopefully so because I really wanna play this game.

Licence issues are in the way of that happening, but Europe might get it, dunno. Pretty please Namco Bandai?

One Piece: Pirate Warriors and Saint Seiya: Brave Soldiers for example were released in EU/US but the difference is that we get the physical copy of the games whereas America doesn't.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

I don't know what improvements can really be made, the current HD twins (The second of which is going to be succeeded in the US about twelve hours or so after this writing!) seem to be able to replicate the speed and scale of the series as well as sub-annual development times allow.

And specials were like a different game in a game? What does this even mean????

I take it to mean they're awkward. Which they are to some extent, in both series; moreso in Spike games because a lot of of them post-Tenkaichi 1 have charge times, while Budokai specials seem out of place outside of combo-enders when played at that level, and Shin Budokai/Infinite World Specials cannot even do that.

So not only are the amount of specials it has the reason why it's a piss poor fighting game, but Shin Budokai AR and Infinite World are full of clones with characters that play the exact way with the same combos, cancel sets up, and ranges. You did say DBZ games after all, and those two are Z games..

Alternatively you could just be talking out of your ass( ) considering that Piccolo doesn't play anywhere near the same as Goku. Piccolo is a long ranged character who works best at...long range and can track opponents from halfway across the screen. Not to mention he has one of the(if not THE) biggest priority attacks as his moves eat through regular combos, making him a broken character all together in SBAR. Trunks's cancel set ups are completely different from Piccolo's, and Trunks close ranged combos are some of the best. Likewise, Cell doesn't play anywhere close to them, and etc for the other characters. So when you make a statement like this, I do hope you've brought up examples up to the plate. I'm more than willing to go into more specifics on why they don't play the same.

Because on the basic level, aside from reach and special moves, they do. Moreso in Budokai than Shin Budokai, but in both games, simply because most DBZ characters don't fight distinctly enough for an annual developer who doesn't have the time to make them blatantly distinct do so. Even the Spike games are better at that!

[Silkman3003]

Which they are to some extent, in both series; moreso in Spike games because a lot of of them post-Tenkaichi 1 have charge times, while Budokai specials seem out of place outside of combo-enders when played at that level, and Shin Budokai/Infinite World Specials cannot even do that.

You made this up, hinting to me that you don't even know what you are talking about. Dragon fist, Solar Flare, Blazing Shoot, Heat Phalenx,Soaring Dragon Strike, Evasive Kick, Maou Shoot,Gigantic Claw, Head Banger, Drain Field(Super 17) ,Savage Counter, Drain Life Cell, Final Impact are specials that can be used outside of combos and aren't needed as combo enders. Some of them even being able to be canceled and used as starterss , while others eat through guard. Even specials like Hyper tornado and Drain Field from S17 negate the use of other specials.

Because on the basic level, aside from reach and special moves, they do.

And Different combos. And different attacks safe from TC. different juggle set ups. different cancel set ups. Different stuns. different guard breaking set ups.
Different priority between characters. Different strategies, Hell even characters like GT Vegeta require stricter timing for their cancels compared to other characters.

And this isn't even getting into SBAR with ground bouncing, and ki cancelling.

Sorry , but this logic doesn't work. Different range, different specials, juggle set ups, cancel set ups, priority between characters etc all ensure that the characters do not play the same. Trying to exclude two important aspects of a character to support your argument is a matter of ignorance and hilarious considering that they are apart of the characters overall moveset. Even characters like BuuTenks in SBAR have Galactic Donut(special) to help extend their combos.

[goku the krump dancer]

My biggest thing with this generation of DBZ games is that the developers were going by the whole "two steps forward, four steps back" routine. Theres no reason why, the games this gen got such a severe drop in content over the ones from the consoles of yesteryear other than the devs just bull shitting us.

If they go and make games for the PS4/XBOne/Wii U (which I personally dont care if they do or don't) I just pray that they keep pressing forward with the games and stop dicking around.

[dbboxkaifan]

The last-gen they really could have done a lot of great things with DBZ on 360/PS3 but they focused more on graphics and content rather than gameplay which for me kills it because a game without gameplay just isn't fun to play.

Spike's best game still unfortunately remains to be Tenkaichi 3, which is on the Wii and PS2.

As for Dimps... they just developed one game and then they packed their bags and moved on to Dragon Ball Heroes on the Arcade/3DS. Slightly related, Dimps latest developed game is Sonic Lost World which for most of it can be a lot of fun and addicting, but they fucked up real bad with the gyroscope bullshit.

If you want to see why, here's Great Clement's review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtRX7smFFxs

[Captain-Sora]

Theres no reason why, the games this gen got such a severe drop in content over the ones from the consoles of yesteryear other than the devs just bull shitting us.

There kinda is. With the jump to new consoles, that meant remaking and utilizing entirely new engines, gameplay, models, animations, stages, everything. All of it had to be made from scratch again. Not only that, but as these were mere liscensed games based off of an anime, they had limited budgets and time to boot. To reach the same amount of characters and costumes games like Tenkaichi 3 had would be impossible right from the get go.

That's not to say there haven't been some bad luck and even some poor decisions made to stunt that regrowth of content, though. Instead of having Spike continue building up and giving some much needed refining and polishing to a new Raging Blast installment, Namco Bandai goes and has them dramatically modify the gameplay into a QTE-fest.

There was also the loss of Dimps prior to Spike's return to the franchise. Dimps had laid a pretty solid foundation with Burst Limit since they pretty much poured most of their efforts into polishing and making sure the gameplay worked(even if some certain new implementations like the drama pieces weren't welcomed additions). Unfortunately we never got another installment from them to actually build up off of that with what would have been a much heavier focus on content. After one final DBZ outing with Infinite World, they were dropped and went off to do Sonic titles and work with Capcom on Street Fighter IV.

[hulkty]

Should've just made RB3 with the same graphics and gameplay as RB2.
Only difference is:
1. Story mode
2. More characters (Including GT characters, more basic DBZ ones that were missed, SSj Bardock, and SSj3 Trunks to match with DBHeroes at the time this game SHOULD have been released. Battle of Gods wasn't mentioned around then from what I remember, so no BoG characters until RB4.)
3. A patch for all the unfair players on LIVE making it a more fair DBZ game like Budokai 3.
4. The MOST Impossible of all (and Forever): A decent character creation. (It will NEVER happen...)