Gogeta Compared To Vegito

[Kakashi]

How big is the gap?

[B]

Really big. Gogeta can become a Super Saiyan 4 and Vegetto was erased from existance when he entered Buu.

[goku the krump dancer]

As big as Rihanna's forehead..

Seriously though, it's as big as you want it to be. There's a decent sized thread on the index page covering this exact same topic.

[SSJ4_Zankuto]

The gap between Super Saiyan Gogeta and Super Vegito in power is wide as they needed to be. Vegito was created to handle villain that other fusion character(s) can't stand up to likes of Gohan-Boo from the story perspective anyway.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Isn't there already a thread for this? Anyway, I think Vegetto is 10 times stronger than Gogeta.

[Darkprince410]

I personally don't see the gap between Vegetto and Gogeta being wide at all, since there's nothing to indicate that the Potara fusion is that superior over the Fusion Dance. I do believe fully that the Potara fusion (and Vegetto for that matter) is superior in strength to a Fusion Dance counterpart, but I've not seen anything to suggest that it's necessarily leaps and bounds above the Fusion Dance.

Likewise, for Vegetto and Gogeta, I believe the gap is only apparent in the same form. I see some people saying that Ssj Vegetto would be considerably ahead Ssj3 Gogeta, when, personally speaking, I think Ssj Vegetto would only be stronger than Ssj Gogeta.

Ssj3 Vegetto > Ssj3 Gogeta > Ssj2 Vegetto (and so on).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I personally don't see the gap between Vegetto and Gogeta being wide at all, since there's nothing to indicate that the Potara fusion is that superior over the Fusion Dance.

If you believe that Fusion has a stable multiplier for everyone, that automatically makes Super Vegetto faaaaa~aaaaar above SS3 Gogeta.

[Cursed Lemon]

Well, as elaborated on in the other thread, the only evidence we have to go by that the Potara fusion is stronger is the fact that Old Kai says as much.

Then, the only indicator of the dance's strength is how Gotenks fares against Buu, and unfortunately Gotenks doesn't do a whole lot of fighting, getting absorbed before a real battle can begin.

Now, you can chalk it up to Goten and Trunks being inexperienced and cocky, which is what led to their being absorbed. But as far as strength, it's fairly difficult to tell. Sadly, we have to take this at face value and assume that Gotenks wasn't strong enough to humiliate Buu like Vegetto.

Goku and Vegeta are quite a bit stronger than their sons at that point, and therefore their dance fusion would be stronger by whatever factor. The problem is that we don't have given power levels and we don't have a mathematical constant for fusion - you could make the case that Gogeta sits anywhere between Gotenks and Vegetto.

In short, there's really just no way of knowing. Gogeta completely destroyed Janemba, who may have been around the strength of Buutenks (my assumption here being that Buu absorbing people is an additive process, not multiplicative), and that's not an insignificant feat.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Goku and Vegeta are quite a bit stronger than their sons at that point, and therefore their dance fusion would be stronger by whatever factor. The problem is that we don't have given power levels and we don't have a mathematical constant for fusion - you could make the case that Gogeta sits anywhere between Gotenks and Vegetto.

Based on the kids' feats, Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan are stronger than Goten & Trunks, but only when they are in the same form, or when the big trio is in a form beyond Super Saiyan. So, Gogeta should be stronger than Gotenks only when they are in the same form or when Gogeta is in a form beyond that of Gotenks. To put it more simply:

base Goten/Trunks < base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan < SS Goten/Trunks < SS Goku/Vegeta/Gohan < SS2 Goku/Gohan/Vegeta < SS3 Goku

• and

base Gotenks < base Gogeta < SS Gotenks < SS Gogeta < SS2 Gotenks < SS2 Gogeta < SS3 Gotenks < SS3 Gogeta

Gogeta completely destroyed Janemba, who may have been around the strength of Buutenks (my assumption here being that Buu absorbing people is an additive process, not multiplicative), and that's not an insignificant feat.

All we have about Janenba is that he is stronger than Innocent Boo and SS3 Goku. He could be weaker than Evil Boo (and he is IMO).

[Cursed Lemon]

Goku and Vegeta are quite a bit stronger than their sons at that point, and therefore their dance fusion would be stronger by whatever factor. The problem is that we don't have given power levels and we don't have a mathematical constant for fusion - you could make the case that Gogeta sits anywhere between Gotenks and Vegetto.

Based on the kids' feats, Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan are stronger than Goten & Trunks, but only when they are in the same form, or when the big trio is in a form beyond Super Saiyan. So, Gogeta should be stronger than Gotenks only when they are in the same form or when Gogeta is in a form beyond that of Gotenks. To put it more simply:

base Goten/Trunks < base Goku/Vegeta/Gohan < SS Goten/Trunks < SS Goku/Vegeta/Gohan < SS2 Goku/Gohan/Vegeta < SS3 Goku

• and

base Gotenks < base Gogeta < SS Gotenks < SS Gogeta < SS2 Gotenks < SS2 Gogeta < SS3 Gotenks < SS3 Gogeta

Well, answer me this.

Do you believe that two saiyans fusing at SSJ2 will be stronger than two saiyans fusing in base, even if that base fusion goes SSJ2 afterward?

All we have about Janenba is that he is stronger than Innocent Boo and SS3 Goku. He could be weaker than Evil Boo (and he is IMO).

I've always taken Fat Buu and Kid Buu to have the same strength, since SSJ3 Goku is fairly confident that he can beat either of them if at full stamina while in SSJ3.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, answer me this.

Do you believe that two saiyans fusing at SSJ2 will be stronger than two saiyans fusing in base, even if that base fusion goes SSJ2 afterward?

Of course. I believe that Fusion has a stable multiplier (officially, all we know is that the result is dozens of times stronger than the individual fighter), and my personal multiplier is x160. So:

Goku/Vegeta: 1
SS2 Goku/Vegeta: 100
Gogeta: 160
SS2 Gogeta: 16.000

[Cursed Lemon]

Of course. I believe that Fusion has a stable multiplier (officially, all we know is that the result is dozens of times stronger than the individual fighter), and my personal multiplier is x160. So:

Goku/Vegeta: 1
SS2 Goku/Vegeta: 100
Gogeta: 160
SS2 Gogeta: 16.000

Right, but the numbers would be the same using that math regardless of whether Gogeta was formed from base saiyans or SSJ2s.

My point is that you can't just throw away Goku and Vegeta's ability to go SSJ2 (and Goku to go SSJ3) when they fuse, over Goten and Trunks' inability to even APPROACH SSJ2, unless you think that fusion (or specifically the fusion dance) operates via a complete strength dismissal in that fashion.

The only way you could reconcile this is by saying if Goku and Vegeta fuse while both are in the SSJ2 state, they will produce a stronger base Gogeta than what would form if Goku and Vegeta fused while in base initially.

[Piccolo jr]

Well, answer me this.

Do you believe that two saiyans fusing at SSJ2 will be stronger than two saiyans fusing in base, even if that base fusion goes SSJ2 afterward?

Of course. I believe that Fusion has a stable multiplier (officially, all we know is that the result is dozens of times stronger than the individual fighter), and my personal multiplier is x160. So:

Goku/Vegeta: 1
SS2 Goku/Vegeta: 100
Gogeta: 160
SS2 Gogeta: 16.000

where do you place SSJ3 Gogeta?

[Cursed Lemon]

where do you place SSJ3 Gogeta?

SSJ3 Gogeta would be at 64,000 there. It's 400 times base.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

where do you place SSJ3 Gogeta?

A little stronger than Ultimate Gohan, but weaker than Gotenks Boo.

[Cursed Lemon]

Or that, if that's what he meant. lol

[RandomGuy96]

Gogeta is most likely hundreds of times weaker than Vegetto. The implication seems to be SS3 Gogeta < base Vegetto =< Buuhan.

At least, Gogeta should be weaker than Buuhan, as the kids aren't that much weaker than their fathers, and Buu outright said that a normal Goku-Vegeta fusion would be useless against him (despite him saying not five minutes ago that Gokhan might be able to beat him).

[MDSTSSJ]

Base fathers > Base Kids

The kids only can transform in to SSJ.

The fathers can transform in to SSJ2/SSJ3.

Why SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks can achieve SSJ3 as Gotenks?

Which would be the powers that SSJ2 Vegeta and SSJ2 Kakarotto could reach as Gogeta?

[Cursed Lemon]

Exactly.

Let's assume that the fusion dance works by the following:

(Fuser 1 + Fuser 2) x Multiplicative Constant = Fusion

Let's assume that Goku and Vegeta are at a base of (5), and the multiplicative constant is (100), which is random. If Goku and Vegeta fuse in base:

(5+5) x 100 = 1,000

Base Gogeta = 1,000
SSJ Gogeta = 50,000
SSJ2 Gogeta = 100,000
SSJ3 Gogeta = 400,000

There are two ways of how fusing while powered up works.

Let's say Goku and Vegeta fuse while both in the SSJ state:

(250+250) x 100 = 50,000

Therefore, we have to decide. When two SSJs fuse, do we see this:



Or this?



Gotenks going SSJ3 is kind of its own quandary - we'd have to assume that Gogeta of the Buu saga could go to SSJ6 or some stupid thing like that.

[Saiga]

Except Gotenks wasn't able to turn Super Saiyan 2 or Super Saiyan 3 because Goten and Trunks were Super Saiyans, he achieved them from training in the RoSaT. No different to how Goku gained the forms.

So it's not like Gogeta will just wind up with 2 stages higher than his fusees had. If there were stages higher than 3, then he would get them through training faster than Goku and Vegeta would. Simple.