At which point is KK x10 activated?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Can we try to avoid mile long posts please. I have no intention of reading all that. Also, if you want to go and criticize someone's reading comprehension, I highly suggest checking your own. Just because Vegeta is surprised by his true power doesn't mean he thought he was suppressed. That's highly illogical. I'm done here. You come up with some of the most ridiculous excuses to try cover up your own misunderstanding so there's really no point in attempting to have a conversation with you. One question before I go though. Why is your reasoning superior to everyone else's? Everyone else here seems to understand that Vegeta didn't know Goku was only using half. Your assumption that Piccolo can hear what's going on down there is directly contradicted by Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo.

[TheGmGoken]

His super hearing maybe was enough to hear Goku's conversation at a few kilometers of distance, but that doesn't mean that it was enough to cover the whole distance to Karin's tower.
Confirming your lack of reading comprehension?

Please tell me where it was stated that God increased Piccolo's hearing? As Piccolo already had great ears.

Contradicted by what exactly? By the same sentence that CONFIRMS that Vegeta ALREADY KNEW that Goku was at his 50% and not his full power?

Vegeta thought Goku was at full power at Karin's tower. Prove being at the Cell games he THOUGHT he surpassed Goku. Then Goku showed his 100% and Vegeta shat himself.

I would respond to more of your posts but most of your images are broken. In fact all of them are broken.

[Hugo Boss]

I think the ten-fold kaioken was activated while Freeza was using 50% of his full power. I assume he was using lower portions of kaioken in the first scan, maybe just a normal kaioken.

[freezamite]

Just because Vegeta is surprised by his true power doesn't mean he thought he was suppressed. That's highly illogical. I'm done here. You come up with some of the most ridiculous excuses to try cover up your own misunderstanding so there's really no point in attempting to have a conversation with you. One question before I go though. Why is your reasoning superior to everyone else's?

You being unable to understand what I'm telling you, and answering this is the most illogical thing of all. I mean, no, my point has never been that "Vegeta knew his power was suppressed because he was surprised". That's what you have understood, and another proof that you don't understand what you read.

His super hearing maybe was enough to hear Goku's conversation at a few kilometers of distance, but that doesn't mean that it was enough to cover the whole distance to Karin's tower.
Confirming your lack of reading comprehension?

Please tell me where it was stated that God increased Piccolo's hearing? As Piccolo already had great ears.

No, it's not the "increased hearing ability". It's the ability God has to know everything that happens on earth from his palace.

Vegeta thought Goku was at full power at Karin's tower. Prove being at the Cell games he THOUGHT he surpassed Goku. Then Goku showed his 100% and Vegeta shat himself.

Vegeta also thought that he was stronger than final form Freezer. Power sensing isn't accurate, and we have as I said tons of examples of that. What demonstrates that he knew that Goku wasn't at his full power at Karin's tower is the way he expresses himself. There's no doubt that he knew that Goku didn't show his full power back then, because if not the phrase "so this is his full power" doesn't have any sense.

I would respond to more of your posts but most of your images are broken. In fact all of them are broken.

I can see all of them perfectly. Maybe the country you live has that site banned? All in all, I can tell you at which chapter&page the images you're interested in correspond.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

He can't hear everything from the lookout. Piccolo can see what's going on when he's concentrating. He was just as confused as Trunks and Tien when the power-up started, then noted that it was Goku a page later. Furthermore, while Goku is preparing to show off his power, Piccolo's having a convo with Trunks and Vegeta about Goku and Gohan using Super Saiyan like it's a normal form. He wasn't listening to Goku and Karin.

The "So that's his true power" is nothing more than Vegeta fully understanding the depths of Goku's power. Vegeta thought he'd be the one to "finish Cell", so I think we can conclude he at least surpassed 50% Goku after training in the rosat a 2nd time. The problem was Goku ended up being far more powerful than he thought. Based on what he says about Goku always surpassing him every time he catches up to his level, one is only left to assume Vegeta thought Goku displayed his full-power. If he really thought Goku was capable of so much more, the dialogue doesn't make sense.

[TheGmGoken]

No, it's not the "increased hearing ability". It's the ability God has to know everything that happens on earth from his palace.

God knows everything that's going on. But Kami/God doesn't here EVERY conversation. Hence why Piccolo was SHOCKED at Goku's 100% power.

Vegeta also thought that he was stronger than final form Freezer. Power sensing isn't accurate, and we have as I said tons of examples of that. What demonstrates that he knew that Goku wasn't at his full power at Karin's tower is the way he expresses himself. There's no doubt that he knew that Goku didn't show his full power back then, because if not the phrase "so this is his full power" doesn't have any sense.

Vegeta was ultra cocky back then. He still is now. But his reaction is different. Vegeta was pissed that Goku surpassed him again. Once he trained he surpassed Goku's 50% which made Vegeta think he was stronger. Once Goku went 100% Vegeta shat himself. The line makes sense.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Woah hold on. Kami doesn't have some special ability that allows him to see what's going on on Earth all the time without the need to concentrate. That's a pretty bold assumption. However, lets say for the sake of argument Kami has some special ability to sense whatever's going on Earth at any given time without the need to concentrate. Who says Piccolo inherited that ability? Not once is that stated or mentioned. Even Piccolo's ability to sense divine Ki is suppressed a bit as we saw with Kaioshin. Also, while energy sensing is inconsistent, we have Goku flat out stating he showed half of his power and we have Vegeta admitting Goku surpassed him with the power he showed. Let's say for the sake of argument that Piccolo did hear them though. Vegeta reacts before Piccolo says anything to Vegeta. Vegeta admits he is inferior to the power Goku showed before Piccolo even had the chance to tell him it was only half. Sorry, but your argument has a gaping hole that's too big to fill.

[freezamite]

He can't hear everything from the lookout. Piccolo can see what's going on when he's concentrating. He was just as confused as Trunks and Tenshinhan when the power-up started, then noted that it was Goku a page later. Furthermore, while Goku is preparing to show off his power, Piccolo's having a convo with Trunks and Vegeta about Goku and Gohan using Super Saiyan like it's a normal form. He wasn't listening to Goku and Karin.

He can hear everything he wants to hear. And yes, he needs to concentrate on it, but the "this is only 50% of my strength" statement is made AFTER the power up has finished.
Piccolo notes Goku's energy and of course wants to know what the hell is happening, so it would be completely out of character not to concentrate on what was happening. And besides that, we have Vegeta's sentence as a confirmation of that being what happened.

The "So that's his true power" is nothing more than Vegeta fully understanding the depths of Goku's power.

Exactly what I think. Since power sensing is anything but accurate, him being in front of Goku's true full power makes him realize how strong Goku is. And by how it's worded it's also obvious that Vegeta knew that this was the first time he could see Goku's real power since he got out of the sat room.

Based on what he says about Goku always surpassing him every time he catches up to his level, one is only left to assume Vegeta thought Goku displayed his full-power.

¿What? Now you're starting to let me sort of speechless. I mean, the phrase “Damn you, Kakarot… It’s always like this… He’s always a step ahead of me…! It drives me crazy…Just when I think I’ve caught up, he widens the lead again…” has, according to you, no sense if Vegeta says it knowing that Goku was only using his 50%.
This phrase according to you makes impossible for Vegeta to be at 55-60% of Goku's power, and since at this point he knows this is only Goku's 50% thanks to Piccolo, to deduce that Goku's 100% would be greater than his total strength.
On the other hand there's no problem on a sentence like "so this is his true power" in a context where Vegeta thinks he has seen Goku's full power before O_O

God knows everything that's going on. But Kami/God doesn't here EVERY conversation. Hence why Piccolo was SHOCKED at Goku's 100% power.

He hears and sees what he wants to hear or see. Him being impressed, considering that power sensing has nothing to do with mathematical numbers, it's not a point of anything so stop using it as some sort of argument. I mean, if you can't explain why Vegeta was so confident to beat Freezer after he sensed his power, or Cell thinking that he could beat Gohan, or anyone on the Cell games (maybe besides Goku) being unable to tell the difference in power there was between those two don't insist in something that has been demonstrated false dozens and dozens of times.

Vegeta was ultra cocky back then. He still is now. But his reaction is different.

Vegeta is always ultra-cocky, and that demonstrates that power sensing is not the same as reading a number from a scouter.

Once he trained he surpassed Goku's 50% which made Vegeta think he was stronger.

Yes, or he could have surpassed that even before training for a second time, since his phrase of "Goku always surpasses me" is said when he already knows that he was only using 50% of his total.

Once Goku went 100% Vegeta shat himself. The line makes sense.

The line makes sense, but not in the context you put it in. If Vegeta thought he already sensed Goku's true power, "so that's his true power" hasn't any sense. You don't say this the second time you see something, and even less to express surprise at how much that has changed from the last time you saw it.
Vegeta knew that Goku was at his 50% on the Karin's tower, he took that into account when he said "Goku has surpassed me" and after training 1 more year inside the sat room he thought he could surpass Goku's true power.
Then he senses Goku's true power and realizes that he is still below that, and it's only on that context that the line has any sense by how is said.

Kami doesn't have some special ability that allows him to see what's going on on Earth all the time without the need to concentrate.

So are you saying that Piccolo senses Goku's power and he doesn't concentrate on what's happening? Does this have any sense to you? Piccolo had plenty of time to concentrate on what was happening at Karin's tower.

Who says Piccolo inherited that ability? Not once is that stated or mentioned.

God himself, he knowing what was happening during the whole Vegeta&Trunks vs Cell's second form fight. It was more than stated that he gained that ability, but it's logical that you didn't realize.

Also, while energy sensing is inconsistent, we have Goku flat out stating he showed half of his power and we have Vegeta admitting Goku surpassed him with the power he showed.

No, no, that's something you put in there. Vegeta says Goku has surpassed him again, at a point when he can already know that this was only Goku's 50% power thanks to Piccolo.

It's "a bit" curious that someone that doesn't believe that Piccolo has the power of God to know everything that happens down on earth from his palace even when he is describing accurately what is happening during the whole "Vegeta vs 2nd form cell" fight only because the line "Piccolo has now acquired the ability to see everything from the palace" (there was that one of God saying "you will acquire all my knowledge" but I assume that won't be enough for you) isn't pronounced with those same exact words, now is assuming something that isn't directly said on the manga and not even implied. "Curious" to say the least.

Vegeta reacts before Piccolo says anything to Vegeta.

The scene changes to where Piccolo and the others are a while after Goku has powered up. Piccolo had plenty of time to transmit every single information that was said on there to the others before their reactions are shown to us.

[TheMightyOzaru]

No they aren't. Vegeta is shitting his pants before Goku even states he was only showing half his power:

Spoiler:

Now, I would appreciate it if you stopped making excuses.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

He can hear everything he wants to hear. And yes, he needs to concentrate on it, but the "this is only 50% of my strength" statement is made AFTER the power up has finished.
Piccolo notes Goku's energy and of course wants to know what the hell is happening, so it would be completely out of character not to concentrate on what was happening. And besides that, we have Vegeta's sentence as a confirmation of that being what happened.

No. Vegeta's sentence is simply a confirmation of Goku's superiority. Nothing about the amount of power Goku displayed. The only thing we see is Vegeta thinking to himself about Goku's constant power advantage, then he tells Piccolo to go into the rosat. They're also shown wondering why Goku's so confident about fighting Cell. If all of them were already astonished and aware that it was only 50% of Goku's power, that'd be enough of a reason for them to at least have a hint as to why Goku's so confident. Based on what we're shown, no one, aside from Gohan, Karin and Yaji were aware Goku only used 50% of his power. There's no indication Piccolo even heard it from Goku.

Exactly what I think. Since power sensing is anything but accurate, him being in front of Goku's true full power makes him realize how strong Goku is. And by how it's worded it's also obvious that Vegeta knew that this was the first time he could see Goku's real power since he got out of the sat room.

Or that Goku ended being stronger than he originally thought. Vegeta's implied to have surpassed the power Goku's shown on Karin's tower, only to realize he still hasn't caught up to Goku. He exceeded his expectations.

What? Now you're starting to let me sort of speechless. I mean, the phrase “Damn you, Kakarot… It’s always like this… He’s always a step ahead of me…! It drives me crazy…Just when I think I’ve caught up, he widens the lead again…” has, according to you, no sense if Vegeta says it knowing that Goku was only using his 50%.
This phrase according to you makes impossible for Vegeta to be at 55-60% of Goku's power, and since at this point he knows this is only Goku's 50% thanks to Piccolo, to deduce that Goku's 100% would be greater than his total strength.

Because Vegeta had a rough idea of Goku's capabilities and went into the rosat looking to surpass it. If 50% of Goku's power was knowingly well beyond Vegeta, how in the world would he expect to surpass Goku? The whole thing about Piccolo knowing isn't even hinted at once, so it can't be cited. Vegeta trained hard enough to the point where he believed he would finish Cell.

On the other hand there's no problem on a sentence like "so this is his true power" in a context where Vegeta thinks he has seen Goku's full power before O_O

It's not. Vegeta realizes that Goku was far stronger than he originally thought, which means his time and effort to surpass Goku wasn't quite enough. This is all but stated during the Cell Games.

[freezamite]

No they aren't. Vegeta is shitting his pants before Goku even states he was only showing half his power:

Spoiler:

Now, I would appreciate it if you stopped making excuses.

Speaking of excuses, this is one of the worst I've ever read.
Look, this is how Nappa reacts when he knows Goku had surpassed the 5.000 unit strength barrier:


And Nappa was well above that number. So, Vegeta considered himself the strongest of the universe, and suddenly a strength almost as big as his one appears under his feet and he can't even be surprised?
That's your "excuse"?
It's even more ridiculous when you consider that I'm not even saying that Vegeta had to be stronger than 50% Goku. I'm just saying that thanks to your (lack of) reading comprehension you demonstrated that Vegeta knew that Goku showed only 50% of his strength.
Considering that, it's impossible to affirm that 50% Goku > Vegeta as a consolidated fact, because Vegeta's reaction saying "Goku surpassed me" already took into account that Goku was only at 50%.

So Vegeta could be at 45% of Goku's power, or at 55% or even at 60% at that point.

No. Vegeta's sentence is simply a confirmation of Goku's superiority. Nothing about the amount of power Goku displayed.

Yes, and I'm not saying the opposite. Look, if I affirm that Vegeta knew this was Goku's 50% it's not because of that sentence, but because of what he says on the Cell games.
When Vegeta see Goku's total power on the Cell games he says "So... this is his full power!" which gives us two informations:
1. Vegeta was surprised by the strength of Goku. He thought he already surpassed him but that wasn't the case.
2. Vegeta knew this was the first time he sensed Goku's full power, and this is the important part here.
Look, and this is something I can't believe is that difficult to understand.
Imagine you have a friend, he has been talking about how amazing his car is for several days and finally he invites you to his home, he shows you a BMW and he says "look, this is my car". A reaction like "wow, so this is your car!" is completely logical, and it's the same that Vegeta did.

Now imagine that same friend, a week latter, coming at your home with a Ferrari instead of that BMW he showed you. Would you say, in that context, something like "wow, so this is your car!"? You could, of course, but then your friend would think that you're a bit weird to say the least.
The logical reactions here are "Hey, wasn't your car that BMW you showed to me?" or "Where did you get that Ferrari, didn't you have a BMW?"

From what Vegeta says during the Cell games, we know that he knew he had never sensed Goku's full power until then. That's what is unequivocally implied by the sentence "So... this is his full power!". And like it happened with the car, it hasn't any sense for him to say that phrase if he thought (like you say) that he already sensed that power. I've already pointed to two logical reactions Vegeta would've had in case of that being true: "Hey, wasn't the power he showed at Karin's tower his maximum?" or "How could he increase his power so much in such a short period of time?"
To say "so this is his full/true power!" the second time you sense that power, and even more if that power is now bigger than what was before implies bad writing by Toriyama's part, and that wasn't the case here.

If all of them were already astonished and aware that it was only 50% of Goku's power, that'd be enough of a reason for them to at least have a hint as to why Goku's so confident.

If they knew Goku was at 50% they also knew that Cell was above that, because it's said by Karin himself. This isn't a valid argument.

Or that Goku ended being stronger than he originally thought. Vegeta's implied to have surpassed the power Goku's shown on Karin's tower, only to realize he still hasn't caught up to Goku. He exceeded his expectations.

It's certainly a possibility. But him realizing that doesn't negate the fact that he knew that Goku didn't show his full power at Karin's tower. Seriously, it's not that difficult to understand... it can't be!

Because Vegeta had a rough idea of Goku's capabilities and went into the rosat looking to surpass it. If 50% of Goku's power was knowingly well beyond Vegeta, how in the world would he expect to surpass Goku?

How in the world you say? Wasn't the Goku who entered the sat chamber much weaker than that Vegeta? Besides, if Vegeta pronounced that sentence knowing Goku was only at 50%, he could perfectly be at 60% of Goku's maximum power and still recognise Goku's superiority.
If Goku could go from 1 to 5 in one year, do you think that it's that unthinkable for Vegeta to go from 2,5 to 5,5 to say something? He couldn't do it because he trained in the wrong way, but don't tell me that he couldn't have those expectations.

It's not. Vegeta realizes that Goku was far stronger than he originally thought, which means his time and effort to surpass Goku wasn't quite enough. This is all but stated during the Cell Games.

The sentence is still badly written if that was the idea. Vegeta's surprise at Goku's strength is one thing, the way he express that surprise another one. If you can't possibly understand why a sentence like this implies "discovery" or "first time in front of something" you should read a bit more, because that is not a logical reaction no matter how you look at it.

[TheMightyOzaru]

No they aren't. Vegeta is shitting his pants before Goku even states he was only showing half his power:

Spoiler:

Now, I would appreciate it if you stopped making excuses.

It's even more ridiculous when you consider that I'm not even saying that Vegeta had to be stronger than 50% Goku. I'm just saying that thanks to your (lack of) reading comprehension you demonstrated that Vegeta knew that Goku showed only 50% of his strength.
Considering that, it's impossible to affirm that 50% Goku > Vegeta as a consolidated fact, because Vegeta's reaction saying "Goku surpassed me" already took into account that Goku was only at 50%.

Yeah... Look if your not willing to admit when your clearly wrong, I have no intention of having a conversation with you. It's clear as day. Vegeta is shitting his pants before Goku even states that was half his power. Please actually look at the evidence before brushing it off.

[freezamite]

No they aren't. Vegeta is shitting his pants before Goku even states he was only showing half his power:

Spoiler:

Now, I would appreciate it if you stopped making excuses.

It's even more ridiculous when you consider that I'm not even saying that Vegeta had to be stronger than 50% Goku. I'm just saying that thanks to your (lack of) reading comprehension you demonstrated that Vegeta knew that Goku showed only 50% of his strength.
Considering that, it's impossible to affirm that 50% Goku > Vegeta as a consolidated fact, because Vegeta's reaction saying "Goku surpassed me" already took into account that Goku was only at 50%.

Yeah... Look if your not willing to admit when your clearly wrong, I have no intention of having a conversation with you. It's clear as day. Vegeta is shitting his pants before Goku even states that was half his power. Please actually look at the evidence before brushing it off.

What???? How can YOU accuse me of that precisely, you that are moving your goalposts and ignoring my arguments one time after another?
Why don't you explain me Nappa's reaction to Goku's 5000 units? Even you admited in the other thread that the 4.000 number for Nappa was bs.
Not only that, but it's pretty obvious that you moved your goalpost. Firstly it was Vegeta's sentence that demonstrated unequivocally that he thought that Goku used his full power at Karin's tower. After me insisting for a couple of pages and giving you some lectures about reading, now what demonstrates that Vegeta was below Goku was a surprise face.
A reaction that's not even close to the one Nappa had when he knew Goku was above 5.000, despite him being still much stronger than that.

Look, that surprise face means that Vegeta wasn't expecting what happened, we all know that, and since you were unable to understand why a phrase like "so this is Goku's true power!" implied that Vegeta knew this was his first time sensing Goku's full power, it's still weirder that now you make such big conclusions from a "surprise face" of Vegeta.

You changed your argument completely, you still haven't admitted how wrong you were about your first statements, and now you're moving your goalpost again and accusing me of something you're doing constantly. Stop, really.

[Darkprince410]

What???? How can YOU accuse me of that precisely, you that are moving your goalposts and ignoring my arguments one time after another?
Why don't you explain me Nappa's reaction to Goku's 5000 units? Even you admited in the other thread that the 4.000 number for Nappa was bs.
Not only that, but it's pretty obvious that you moved your goalpost. Firstly it was Vegeta's sentence that demonstrated unequivocally that he thought that Goku used his full power at Karin's tower. After me insisting for a couple of pages and giving you some lectures about reading, now what demonstrates that Vegeta was below Goku was a surprise face.
A reaction that's not even close to the one Nappa had when he knew Goku was above 5.000, despite him being still much stronger than that.

Look, that surprise face means that Vegeta wasn't expecting what happened, we all know that, and since you were unable to understand why a phrase like "so this is Goku's true power!" implied that Vegeta knew this was his first time sensing Goku's full power, it's still weirder that now you make such big conclusions from a "surprise face" of Vegeta.

You changed your argument completely, you still haven't admitted how wrong you were about your first statements, and now you're moving your goalpost again and accusing me of something you're doing constantly. Stop, really.

All Nappa's reaction to it demonstrated was that he was surprised that Goku, a low-class weakling who only a year ago had difficulty with Raditz, suddenly has a battle power over 8,000. There's nothing more to it than that.

Likewise, there's nothing more to Vegeta's reaction to sensing Goku's battle power at Karin's than what's there. There's nothing saying or suggesting anywhere that Piccolo, off-panel mind you, would reveal to Vegeta and the others that Goku was only using half his strength, nor is there anything whatsoever to assume that Vegeta was under the assumption that it was anything other than Goku's full strength that he was sensing at the time. You say that the word choice he used was a clear indicator that he knew that Goku was holding back, when I see it as a clear sign of anger and exasperation, that he can't believe he's so strong. All that Vegeta's reaction suggests is a man completely overwhelmed by the power that he is sensing, realizing that once again he has been surpassed by the strength that his sworn rival is putting out at that time, and even if Piccolo had heard Goku make the comment, since we don't see him say anything about it, we can't conclude that he did actually tell them.

Likewise, if he and the others (outside of Gohan) had known he was only using half his strength, why would they have been so shocked and surprised upon actually seeing Goku's full strength when he fought Cell. Even though ki sensing isn't an exact, down to the unit, level like a scouter would, they'd easily be able to make a good ballpark estimate if they knew it was about half. Their reactions when he powered up to full were ones of total disbelief and amazement, that they couldn't comprehend that he was that powerful, and that pretty much confirms what Vegeta's initial line really suggests, that they had no idea just how powerful Goku was, and that even at that point, Goku was stronger than he, Trunks, Piccolo, etc were.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I saw that portion, it was just irrelevant to what we were discussing. Furthermore, there's a very simple reason for Nappa's reaction that Darkprince410 was nice enough to cover for me. Now I'm done. I leave you with people patient enough to deal with you.

[hleV]

Nappa was 4,000, so of course he'd get scared if his opponent was 5,000.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

When Vegeta see Goku's total power on the Cell games he says "So... this is his full power!" which gives us two informations:
1. Vegeta was surprised by the strength of Goku. He thought he already surpassed him but that wasn't the case.
2. Vegeta knew this was the first time he sensed Goku's full power, and this is the important part here.

3. Vegeta thought he had a good understanding of Goku's power, only to realize the display at Karin's was nothing.

Look, and this is something I can't believe is that difficult to understand.
Imagine you have a friend, he has been talking about how amazing his car is for several days and finally he invites you to his home, he shows you a BMW and he says "look, this is my car". A reaction like "wow, so this is your car!" is completely logical, and it's the same that Vegeta did.

Now imagine that same friend, a week latter, coming at your home with a Ferrari instead of that BMW he showed you. Would you say, in that context, something like "wow, so this is your car!"? You could, of course, but then your friend would think that you're a bit weird to say the least.
The logical reactions here are "Hey, wasn't your car that BMW you showed to me?" or "Where did you get that Ferrari, didn't you have a BMW?"

Except this example doesn't even apply a little bit.

With the BMW, I would already have visual evidence of my friends car, so it'd be far easier to distinguish the difference between that and the Ferrari he would go on to show me later. With Vegeta, there was never an opportunity to know exactly where Goku's level of power was at, as he only could go off of the feel of his Chi while he powered-up. He could have a feel that Goku was stronger than he was showing, but at the end of the day, it's still just a guess. He had no idea Goku only used 50% of his power.

From what Vegeta says during the Cell games, we know that he knew he had never sensed Goku's full power until then. That's what is unequivocally implied by the sentence "So... this is his full power!". And like it happened with the car, it hasn't any sense for him to say that phrase if he thought (like you say) that he already sensed that power. I've already pointed to two logical reactions Vegeta would've had in case of that being true: "Hey, wasn't the power he showed at Karin's tower his maximum?" or "How could he increase his power so much in such a short period of time?"
To say "so this is his full/true power!" the second time you sense that power, and even more if that power is now bigger than what was before implies bad writing by Toriyama's part, and that wasn't the case here.

You keep saying it doesn't make sense and that's because you're refusing to look at things differently.

No, what's implied is Vegeta finally understanding that Goku's power was unbelievable and obviously far better than he was expecting. Vegeta even makes it a point to admit that despite his "special training", Goku still ended up being way ahead of him. What does this mean? It means he was going into the Cell Games expecting to be stronger than Goku after his 2nd session in the rosat. Pretty unrealistic of Vegeta to expect to surpass someone who easily trumps his power using only 50% of their power. It actually makes sense if he thought this was a good extent of his (Goku's) capabilities.

Your entire stance is predicated on the idea of Piccolo telling everyone that Goku was only using half of his actual power, which AT makes no note of whatsoever during the story. Without that assumption, it sorta evaporates.

If they knew Goku was at 50% they also knew that Cell was above that, because it's said by Karin himself. This isn't a valid argument.

Yeah, "if", which is implied nowhere.

It's certainly a possibility. But him realizing that doesn't negate the fact that he knew that Goku didn't show his full power at Karin's tower. Seriously, it's not that difficult to understand... it can't be!

By the same token, it's unknown if Vegeta knew what level of power Goku was putting out. For all he knew, it could've been Goku's full-power or very close to it, at least. Seriously, it's not that difficult to understand.

How in the world you say? Wasn't the Goku who entered the sat chamber much weaker than that Vegeta? Besides, if Vegeta pronounced that sentence knowing Goku was only at 50%, he could perfectly be at 60% of Goku's maximum power and still recognise Goku's superiority.

Erm, no. Vegeta's words weren't a projection of Goku's power, but an indication that he's way above him at that point. Goku outright tells Vegeta he's way stronger than him a few pages before, which is pretty obvious once he displays his power. Once again, we have a clear example of how your stance totally hinges on "Piccolo told everyone", which doesn't say much.

If Goku could go from 1 to 5 in one year, do you think that it's that unthinkable for Vegeta to go from 2,5 to 5,5 to say something? He couldn't do it because he trained in the wrong way, but don't tell me that he couldn't have those expectations.

Uh, yeah. Vegeta's training was inferior to Goku's, but he's still implied to at least reach his expectation of getting stronger than what he thought was Goku's full-power.

The sentence is still badly written if that was the idea. Vegeta's surprise at Goku's strength is one thing, the way he express that surprise another one. If you can't possibly understand why a sentence like this implies "discovery" or "first time in front of something" you should read a bit more, because that is not a logical reaction no matter how you look at it.

I read enough. Thank you very much.

You make it seem like there'd be no way for discovery to be a factor if Vegeta was already going in with an inkling that Goku showed his true power, which is simply not true. Here's a prime example when Goku shows his Super Saiyan for the 1st time on earth:

Chapter: 334 (DBZ 140), P7.3
Context: seeing Super Saiyan Goku
Tien: "Super Saiyan?"
Yamcha: “Wh…what ki…and he’s not even fighting…”

Tien obviously saw the Super Saiyan 3 yrs before, but:

Chapter 340 (DBZ 146), P13.1-2
Tenshinhan: “Wh-what a ki! Amazing…! S-so this is Goku as a Super Saiyan…?!”

Does the above not appear to be discovery or the first time seeing something he'd just seen...previously? The Super Saiyan ability was clearly shown and sensed by everyone before, but with the above dialogue, you'd think it was, I dunno, his first time seeing it. With that, if Vegeta thinks he has an idea of Goku's full-power based on Goku's display at Karin's, only to have that opinion completely trumped right before his eyes, leaving him in amazement of Goku's actual power--there's definitely plenty of room for discovery on Vegeta's part. The story and writing from a previous arc clearly shows it.

[freezamite]

All Nappa's reaction to it demonstrated was that he was surprised that Goku, a low-class weakling who only a year ago had difficulty with Raditz, suddenly has a battle power over 8,000. There's nothing more to it than that.

So, Nappa's reaction can be explained because of the surprise of him seeing Goku going from below Raditz to +5000, but on the other hand, Vegeta's reaction can't be explained saying that:
1. He wasn't expecting Goku to suddenly power-up so soon when he said that he was going home to rest. In fact, they didn't knew it was Goku until they focused on what happened down there.
2. Goku had increased his strength more than what Vegeta expected, even if at that point he still wasn't above him (because he only used 50% his power).

Look, TheMightyOzaru's point is that Vegeta had to be below the power Goku showed because otherwise he wouldn't be surprised at all. On the other hand, what I'm saying is that there had been reactions on the manga for different reasons that "he surpassed me", like the one of Nappa that's as you say because he didn't expect Goku to become that powerful, not because Goku surpassed him (at least with those 5000 units).
Since we have multiple examples of people being surprised for other reasons that are not "he surpassed me", the argument "Vegeta was below because he was surprised" has been demonstrated fallacious with that scene.

Likewise, there's nothing more to Vegeta's reaction to sensing Goku's battle power at Karin's than what's there. There's nothing saying or suggesting anywhere that Piccolo, off-panel mind you, would reveal to Vegeta and the others that Goku was only using half his strength, nor is there anything whatsoever to assume that Vegeta was under the assumption that it was anything other than Goku's full strength that he was sensing at the time. You say that the word choice he used was a clear indicator that he knew that Goku was holding back, when I see it as a clear sign of anger and exasperation, that he can't believe he's so strong. All that Vegeta's reaction suggests is a man completely overwhelmed by the power that he is sensing, realizing that once again he has been surpassed by the strength that his sworn rival is putting out at that time, and even if Piccolo had heard Goku make the comment, since we don't see him say anything about it, we can't conclude that he did actually tell them.

WoW I think that there has been a big misunderstanding here, I may have explained myself bad.
To make things clear, I completely agree with you in everything you've said on that paragraph. Yes, from the reaction Vegeta had just after sensing Goku's power at Karin's tower:
1. It can't be assumed that he knows Goku was holding back.
2. It can't be assumed that Piccolo has explained anything to them.

This is true and I agree with that. The "problem" arrives when at the chapter 399, after Goku's power up, Vegeta expresses his opinion saying:
"So this is Goku's true power!"

It's at this point when it has to be deduced that he already knew that what Goku showed at the Karin's tower wasn't his true power.
I've already put an example about that and I will repeat it to you in case you haven't read it before:

Imagine you have a friend, he has been talking about how amazing his car is for several days and finally he invites you to his home, he shows you a BMW and he says "look, this is my car". A reaction like "wow, so this is your car!" is completely logical, and it's the same that Vegeta did.

Now imagine that same friend, a week latter, coming at your home with a Ferrari instead of that BMW he showed you. Would you say, in that context, something like "wow, so this is your car!"? You could, of course, but then your friend would think that you're a bit weird to say the least.
The logical reactions here are "Hey, wasn't your car that BMW you showed to me?" or "Where did you get that Ferrari, didn't you have a BMW?"

Since now we know from Vegeta's words that he already knew that Goku wasn't at full power before, the rest can be deduced. I mean, how could Vegeta know that? He wasn't that good sensing other people's power, not to say other people's hidden power. And if he couldn't sense Goku's power, someone had to tell this to him.
We know that Piccolo was there, we know that Piccolo was focusing on what happened at Karin's tower, and we also know that he had the ability to know everything he wanted to know and happened on his domains (the earth) so the most logical explanation in my opinion is that he was the one who explained Vegeta what happened exactly as Goku explained it to Karin.

With the BMW, I would already have visual evidence of my friends car, so it'd be far easier to distinguish the difference between that and the Ferrari he would go on to show me later. With Vegeta, there was never an opportunity to know exactly where Goku's level of power was at, as he only could go off of the feel of his Chi while he powered-up. He could have a feel that Goku was stronger than he was showing, but at the end of the day, it's still just a guess. He had no idea Goku only used 50% of his power.

Piccolo was there, and Piccolo could've explained that. So yes, he had a way to know that Goku was at 50%.

Likewise, if he and the others (outside of Gohan) had known he was only using half his strength, why would they have been so shocked and surprised upon actually seeing Goku's full strength when he fought Cell. Even though ki sensing isn't an exact, down to the unit, level like a scouter would, they'd easily be able to make a good ballpark estimate if they knew it was about half.
Their reactions when he powered up to full were ones of total disbelief and amazement, that they couldn't comprehend that he was that powerful, and that pretty much confirms what Vegeta's initial line really suggests, that they had no idea just how powerful Goku was, and that even at that point, Goku was stronger than he, Trunks, Piccolo, etc were.

As I said, imagine power sensing like how you sense the fever you have. You may know you have fever, even if you have a lot of fever or not that much, but you can't say "now I'm at 38,5 Cº" nor know how you will feel once you're at 40ºC.
Look, we have tons of examples of characters having in front of them someone much stronger, and still thinking they can beat them and being even confident about that. Now imagine if a simple comparison between someone's own strength and the one they are fighting with can be inaccurate enough for the weaker to think that he is stronger, can you really affirm that power sensing is accurate enough as to have a precise idea of someone's power through power scaling?

Yeah, "if", which is implied nowhere.

It's implied from Vegeta's reaction to Goku's full power. You don't react in this way if you think you know something, and then you realize that what you thought is incorrect.

By the same token, it's unknown if Vegeta knew what level of power Goku was putting out. For all he knew, it could've been Goku's full-power or very close to it, at least. Seriously, it's not that difficult to understand.

"It's not that difficult to understand you say?" No, it wasn't his full power and it wasn't close to it (in DB terms that could mean him being at 90%).
The problem is that if he knew that Goku wasn't at full power, he had absolutely no reason to think that he was at 60% or 70% or 90%. How could he even know that Goku was hiding part of his power?
If he knew is because Piccolo told him, and Piccolo told him what he heard. Common sense.

Vegeta's words weren't a projection of Goku's power, but an indication that he's way above him at that point.

That's your assumption, not a fact by any means. Vegeta says Goku has surpassed him, and if he knew Goku wasn't at his full power, then of course he made a simple projection.

Goku outright tells Vegeta he's way stronger than him a few pages before, which is pretty obvious once he displays his power.

And how is that supposed to negate that Vegeta knew this was Goku's 50% if Piccolo already explained that to him? This isn't a proof of your opinion, because that reaction can also be explained with mine and it doesn't negate it by any means.

Uh, yeah. Vegeta's training was inferior to Goku's, but he's still implied to at least reach his expectation of getting stronger than what he thought was Goku's full-power.

Yes, and that can also be explained with an increase from 55% Goku's power to Goku's 80%. A brutal increase in DB terms, enough for him to even think that he had surpassed Goku, and enough to be 1-hit killed by Goku if Goku wanted to do that.
I mean, how much stronger was Gohan compared to Cell, and Cell still thought he was stronger? Of course if Vegeta was at the level Goku showed or even a bit above, and he knew Goku was double that level he could even with all those imprecisions to power-scale enough to know that he had been surpassed by Goku.
But this is because a 45% difference in strength in DB terms is enormously huge, not because he can power-scale with precision.

Once again, we have a clear example of how your stance totally hinges on "Piccolo told everyone", which doesn't say much.

NO! That would be a FALLACY for my part (it's a relieve that I've never did that). My stance hinges on how Vegeta reacts to Goku's full power. If we are discussing about something of the manga, it's obvious that we have to base this on facts that are directly stated on the manga.

Once I have a reason to think that Vegeta knew that Goku wasn't at full power on Karin's tower, I proceed to analyse how is that possible or if it was Toryama who made a mistake. If there's even a single possible logical explanation at that fact, then it can't be assumed that Toriyama did it wrong. Remember that we are trying (at least me) to accommodate our explanations to the manga, NOT THE MANGA TO OUR EXPLANATIONS.

Does the above not appear to be discovery or the first time seeing something he'd just seen...previously?

Yes, and considering that the last time he sensed Goku's power was against Trunks, who wasn't even an enemy and admitted he wasn't going at full force against Goku when he tested him, we can conclude that the "relaxed" Goku that transforms in front of Trunks was below the one that despite being ill was still going at full power against some androids that were said to be terrible and whose strength couldn't be even grasped because of their conditions as androids.

Now before you make a mistake comparing this situation with the one of Vegeta, look at Yamcha's sentence of Goku's power as a SSJ:
"Yamcha: “Wh…what ki…and he’s not even fighting…”
So it was pretty clear for them that Goku wasn't even going at full force at that point.

But let's ignore those facts, let's suppose that they thought that Goku was going at his maximum strength before, they sense that same power and they act as if they didn't. That would be a mistake by Toriyama's part, because it would be impossible to explain this reaction.
THE FACT THAT TORIYAMA COULD MAKE A MISTAKE AT SOME POINT OF THE MANGA DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE CAN ASSUME HE HAS MADE A MISTAKE EVERY TIME WE NEED THAT TO ACCOMMODATE THE MANGA TO OUR THEORIES.
We are trying to explain the manga with our theories, not to accommodate the manga to those, and from how you've spoken regarding that, it seems that you're more interested in demonstrate at any cost that you're right even if that implies to ditch out some pages of the manga insinuating they're product of a mistake made by the author more than to "find" the author's real intentions behind those pages.

We have a fact, and that fact is Vegeta speaking in a way that only makes some sense if he already knew that Goku wasn't going at full force. Now, could Vegeta possibly know that Goku was at 50% of his maximum power? Yes, he had a way to know it and it isn't even anything strange. Piccolo could know everything that happened down there thanks to the knowledge he acquired from God, he was focusing on what was happening at that moment and he was right with Vegeta & co to explain them something as important as that. In fact, him not explaining that it's much, much, much difficult to justify than him doing it.

Another thing that I'm starting to see that you are understanding wrong is the point of this discussion. Look, you're the one that are insinuating that Toriyama expressed in a wrong way what he wanted to transmit to the reader (and you've put an example that, despite being invalid because it's been demonstrated that both Yamcha and Ten-Shin knew that Goku wasn't at full strength at that point of the manga) and that Vegeta's way to express his surprise towards Goku's power wasn't the one that should have been.
You don't have to demonstrate that "if we go by that explanation the manga still makes sense", you have to demonstrate that "the only way to justify those pages is assuming that Toriyama made a mistake at that point". In other words, you have to demonstrate that Piccolo didn't explain what he saw to Vegeta and the others. The only reason that you've given in that sense is the precision of power scaling, but considering how imprecise that can be at some points, it's not enough in my opinion to affirm that Toriyama made a mistake at that point of the manga.

Besides all that discussion (that I find pretty interesting but it wasn't the reason I opened this thread), don't you have to explain me how could Goku be surprised by Freezer's increase from 50% to 70% while Freezer was strong enough to react to a sudden KKx10 activation from a much closer position and without even looking, where did the aura go at those other pages where Kaito says Goku is using KK and he has no aura and why that KK aura had Goku's eyes coloured in black?

Regards!

Nappa was 4,000, so of course he'd get scared if his opponent was 5,000.

According to the Daizenshuu. According to the manga he put a good fight against Goku after him powering up to over 8.000, and that isn't even possible with a power of 4,000. Not even close.

[Darkprince410]

Since now we know from Vegeta's words that he already knew that Goku wasn't at full power before, the rest can be deduced. I mean, how could Vegeta know that? He wasn't that good sensing other people's power, not to say other people's hidden power. And if he couldn't sense Goku's power, someone had to tell this to him.
We know that Piccolo was there, we know that Piccolo was focusing on what happened at Karin's tower, and we also know that he had the ability to know everything he wanted to know and happened on his domains (the earth) so the most logical explanation in my opinion is that he was the one who explained Vegeta what happened exactly as Goku explained it to Karin.

You can't assume though that he said that to Vegeta and the others said that though just by that statement. Something that significant would be logically have been shown, because it's not exactly an irrelevant bit of information amidst what else we get.

It's more logical to assume this given what we see.

Goku exits the Room of Spirit and Time, commenting about how he's a lot stronger than Vegeta and stuff, then leaves.
Vegeta, being Vegeta, doesn't really believe him, but admits that he can see the superiority of the form that he and Gohan have taken and how useful that would be in battle.
Goku then powers up to 50% strength, shocking everyone outside of Gohan.
Vegeta realizes that Goku has surpassed him with the power he has sensed, and orders Piccolo to hurry up and enter the Room so that Vegeta can quickly get another year in.
Vegeta, a year later, feels confident he's surpassed Goku again, but is shocked and bewildered when Goku finally reveals his full strength.

Vegeta was confident that he had surpassed Goku again with that additional year in the Room of Spirit and Time, but obviously in truth he was nowhere close. If he had any idea that Goku was only using half his strength when powered up for Karin, then he would have known what to shoot for, and wouldn't have believed he were stronger than Goku with the gain he had actually made. If anything, Vegeta's assumption that he had surpassed Goku proves that he didn't know it was only 50% of Goku's full strength.

Basically it'd be like this.

Vegeta - "Damn! I'm at 35 and Kakarot is at 60! No matter what, he always seems to be one step ahead of me! Piccolo, go train so I can hurry up"

One year of training later

Vegeta - "Now I am at 70! You can do what you want Kakarot, but I will be the one that defeats Cell!"

After watching Goku power up

Vegeta - "Kakarot was at 120! So that was his true power! I thought that his 60 was his true power, but it was only half!"

Vegeta's whole "So that was his true power!" isn't meant to be taken as a confirmation that he knew Goku wasn't at full strength before, but more of a bewilderment that what he had sensed before at Karin's wasn't his full strength by any means.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Piccolo was there, and Piccolo could've explained that. So yes, he had a way to know that Goku was at 50%.

He could've, but he was never implied to have known.

Look, we have tons of examples of characters having in front of them someone much stronger, and still thinking they can beat them and being even confident about that. Now imagine if a simple comparison between someone's own strength and the one they are fighting with can be inaccurate enough for the weaker to think that he is stronger, can you really affirm that power sensing is accurate enough as to have a precise idea of someone's power through power scaling?

That's because the opponent often had yet to show what they were capable of. Even #16 says Vegeta is stronger than Cell, which was shown to be way off. Android #16 was one of the best when it came to measuring power. If he could be shown to be inaccurate, it's only right that others could.

It's implied from Vegeta's reaction to Goku's full power. You don't react in this way if you think you know something, and then you realize that what you thought is incorrect.

That's your interpretation. The only thing shown from Vegeta's reaction is that Goku was stronger than he imagined. Nothing more.

No, it wasn't his full power and it wasn't close to it (in DB terms that could mean him being at 90%).
The problem is that if he knew that Goku wasn't at full power, he had absolutely no reason to think that he was at 60% or 70% or 90%. How could he even know that Goku was hiding part of his power?
If he knew is because Piccolo told him, and Piccolo told him what he heard. Common sense.

Again, "if" he knew. Since it was never implied in the story that Piccolo knew, much less shared this, Vegeta doesn't know how much power Goku put out; only that it's much stronger than his own power. Common sense.

That's your assumption, not a fact by any means. Vegeta says Goku has surpassed him, and if he knew Goku wasn't at his full power, then of course he made a simple projection.

Do you realize how your entire stance continuously comes down to "if" this or that was mentioned by Piccolo? Talk about assumptions.

Yes, and that can also be explained with an increase from 55% Goku's power to Goku's 80%. A brutal increase in DB terms, enough for him to even think that he had surpassed Goku, and enough to be 1-hit killed by Goku if Goku wanted to do that.
I mean, how much stronger was Gohan compared to Cell, and Cell still thought he was stronger? Of course if Vegeta was at the level Goku showed or even a bit above, and he knew Goku was double that level he could even with all those imprecisions to power-scale enough to know that he had been surpassed by Goku.
But this is because a 45% difference in strength in DB terms is enormously huge, not because he can power-scale with precision.

Cell was confident because he still had a lot of power he had yet to use. He was way off, but even Goku seemed to be in awe after seeing Cell's full-power.

I mean, yeah, all of that stuff is very possible. I like to take things at face value in the Manga. So I think 50% Goku is just stronger than Vegeta at his best.

NO! That would be a FALLACY for my part (it's a relieve that I've never did that). My stance hinges on how Vegeta reacts to Goku's full power. If we are discussing about something of the manga, it's obvious that we have to base this on facts that are directly stated on the manga.

Vegeta can't tell if someone's hiding their power or not. This information would have to be told to him directly. If Piccolo never shared this info, how would Vegeta know one way or another that Goku wasn't at full-power?

Yes, and considering that the last time he sensed Goku's power was against Trunks, who wasn't even an enemy and admitted he wasn't going at full force against Goku when he tested him, we can conclude that the "relaxed" Goku that transforms in front of Trunks was below the one that despite being ill was still going at full power against some androids that were said to be terrible and whose strength couldn't be even grasped because of their conditions as androids.

Read the quote again:

Tenshinhan: “Wh-what a ki! Amazing…! S-so this is Goku as a Super Saiyan…?!”

He talks as if he never sensed or saw Goku as a Super Saiyan before. That much is clear. This is before he even starts fighting #19. With that said, "So this is Goku as a Super Saiyan" is as much of a line of discovery as Vegeta's "So this is his true power" line during the Cell Games.

They can't suppress their power in Super Saiyan at this point, so naturally they're at full-power upon transforming. What they do have control of is effort.

Now before you make a mistake comparing this situation with the one of Vegeta, look at Yamcha's sentence of Goku's power as a SSJ:
"Yamcha: “Wh…what ki…and he’s not even fighting…”
So it was pretty clear for them that Goku wasn't even going at full force at that point.

Uh, Tien's quote on Super Saiyan Goku was before he started fighting. Yamcha remarks on how powerful Goku is without even fighting, with Tien later talking as if he never sensed or saw a Super Saiyan before. You did say "first time in front of" earlier, right? All you've managed to show with Yamcha's quote is that their Chi is even greater once they start fighting.

let's ignore those facts, let's suppose that they thought that Goku was going at his maximum strength before, they sense that same power and they act as if they didn't. That would be a mistake by Toriyama's part, because it would be impossible to explain this reaction.

Well, yeah. As I've shown above.

THE FACT THAT TORIYAMA COULD MAKE A MISTAKE AT SOME POINT OF THE MANGA DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE CAN ASSUME HE HAS MADE A MISTAKE EVERY TIME WE NEED THAT TO ACCOMMODATE THE MANGA TO OUR THEORIES.

Look, it's one thing to point out a mistake and acknowledge it; however, it's another when you're claiming certain reactions have to mean a certain thing in order to paint a specific picture. You're doing the latter. I've read over this part several times, and I'm not seeing why he has to be aware that Goku wasn't using all of his power. During this time, Vegeta goes into the rosat and grows much stronger than before after sensing Goku. Why is it so difficult to believe Vegeta thought he surpassed Goku again, only to see that Goku's true power ended up being too far out of his league? Like, how does this really change the way the story is presented?

We are trying to explain the manga with our theories, not to accommodate the manga to those, and from how you've spoken regarding that, it seems that you're more interested in demonstrate at any cost that you're right even if that implies to ditch out some pages of the manga insinuating they're product of a mistake made by the author more than to "find" the author's real intentions behind those pages.

Honestly, I'm not really interested in proving if I'm "right" here. I don't believe I've ditched any pages, though.

We have a fact, and that fact is Vegeta speaking in a way that only makes some sense if he already knew that Goku wasn't going at full force. Now, could Vegeta possibly know that Goku was at 50% of his maximum power?

He could possibly know, yes. He could possibly be unaware of this, too.

Yes, he had a way to know it and it isn't even anything strange. Piccolo could know everything that happened down there thanks to the knowledge he acquired from God, he was focusing on what was happening at that moment and he was right with Vegeta & co to explain them something as important as that. In fact, him not explaining that it's much, much, much difficult to justify than him doing it.

Him explaining this so quickly, and not being shown or indicated is more difficult to justify.

Another thing that I'm starting to see that you are understanding wrong is the point of this discussion. Look, you're the one that are insinuating that Toriyama expressed in a wrong way what he wanted to transmit to the reader (and you've put an example that, despite being invalid because it's been demonstrated that both Yamcha and Ten-Shin knew that Goku wasn't at full strength at that point of the manga) and that Vegeta's way to express his surprise towards Goku's power wasn't the one that should have been.

Nothing was invalid about my example, as I've clarified above. You citing Yamcha's piece of dialogue didn't change anything because it mentions that he wasn't fighting yet, which Goku wasn't during Tien's dialogue, either.

You don't have to demonstrate that "if we go by that explanation the manga still makes sense", you have to demonstrate that "the only way to justify those pages is assuming that Toriyama made a mistake at that point". In other words, you have to demonstrate that Piccolo didn't explain what he saw to Vegeta and the others. The only reason that you've given in that sense is the precision of power scaling, but considering how imprecise that can be at some points, it's not enough in my opinion to affirm that Toriyama made a mistake at that point of the manga.

I have to explain something that was never shown or implied to have taken place on the lookout, yes? I can easily just say Piccolo was overwhelmed by Goku's surge in power to the point where he had no time to concentrate and hear Goku say he only used half of his power right after; especially since there were others talking and equally as surprised during that moment as well.

Besides all that discussion (that I find pretty interesting but it wasn't the reason I opened this thread), don't you have to explain me how could Goku be surprised by Freezer's increase from 50% to 70% while Freezer was strong enough to react to a sudden KKx10 activation from a much closer position and without even looking, where did the aura go at those other pages where Kaito says Goku is using KK and he has no aura and why that KK aura had Goku's eyes coloured in black?

Freeza never used 70% of his power before fighting Super Saiyan Goku. He made that jump in power when he knocked Super Saiyan Goku away with his kiai.

Also, that wasn't a Kaio-Ken x10. It was most likely the regular Kaio-Ken. The Kaio-Ken x10 was the reserve power Goku was planning to use whenever Freeza got serious.