A Newcomer's Experience

[Ajay]

As for Kelamis he had his ups and downs. Personally I'd say even in his early days Schemmel never sounded as off as this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uerSAbr-mz0

At that point in the series I'd say even Kirby Morrow's Goku was an improvement over Kelamis.

Haha, for sure. Westwood certainly had some severe ups and downs. Kelamis at his best though was just fantastic. It definitely teetered on the edge of too heroic but I think the pitch of his voice and general lightheartedness saved it.

Don't get me wrong, I genuinely don't hate Schemmel. I know I've done nothing but trash him so far but I do think many moments of Kai are spot on. Same goes for Sabat too. I just can't help but feel the caricatures of old tend to make their way into their performances just a touch too much at times.

Anyway! Back to writing up the Namek arc for this post. She is approaching the Goku vs. Freeza fight very quickly!

[Blade]

At that point in the series I'd say even Kirby Morrow's Goku was an improvement over Kelamis.

I dunno, I think Morrow at his best was better than Kelamis at his best, who, for me, always seemed to try a little too hard.

I think for fairness sake you can only really make proper comparisons between Morrow's end of Z Goku and Kelamis' Namek Saga Goku due to the fact that those are the only two points where each actor had a production situation that allowed for any kind of quality control in their performances. Kelamis during the Westwood days was dire, but I find that even at the lowest ebbs of the production Morrow was always at least stomach-able.

[ABED]

I feel like that entire section is build on rage rather than arrogance and cockiness. The latter traits come later in the battle.

I always found that speech in the original to be sinister and threatening rather than what I feel is heroic and cocky in Schemmel's performance.

I struggle to find anyone but Kelamis bearable as Goku in English but then I grew up with Ocean/Westwood so I have no deep seated feelings regarding Schemmel either way.

There's plenty of rage in Schemmel's performance at that moment, and Goku's "cockiness" is there at that point in the battle. Look at that smirk when he tells Freeza he's going to allow him a free shot.

I also grew up with the Ocean dub and never liked Kelamis, but that's subjective.

[90sDBZ]

At that point in the series I'd say even Kirby Morrow's Goku was an improvement over Kelamis.

I dunno, I think Morrow at his best was better than Kelamis at his best, who, for me, always seemed to try a little too hard.

I think for fairness sake you can only really make proper comparisons between Morrow's end of Z Goku and Kelamis' Namek Saga Goku due to the fact that those are the only two points where each actor had a production situation that allowed for any kind of quality control in their performances. Kelamis during the Westwood days was dire, but I find that even at the lowest ebbs of the production Morrow was always at least stomach-able.

I actually don't think Morrow is as bad as a lot of people say. And I'm someone who strongly dislikes the Westwood dub. Compared to some of the other Westwood performances Morrow's wasn't THAT bad. But I have to admit I did like Kelamis a lot in the Saban dub. For me Kelamis at his best is better than Morrow at his best but Kelamis at his worst is much worse than Morrow at his worst so it's a toss up. Personally I prefer Corlett to them both. He was the most consistent Ocean Goku even though he voiced him for the shortest time.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Was the ocean dub unedited after they came back? Or did they still horribly edit the episodes, I can't remember.

[Mewzard]

I feel like that entire section is build on rage rather than arrogance and cockiness. The latter traits come later in the battle.

I always found that speech in the original to be sinister and threatening rather than what I feel is heroic and cocky in Schemmel's performance.

I struggle to find anyone but Kelamis bearable as Goku in English but then I grew up with Ocean/Westwood so I have no deep seated feelings regarding Schemmel either way.

There's plenty of rage in Schemmel's performance at that moment, and Goku's "cockiness" is there at that point in the battle. Look at that smirk when he tells Freeza he's going to allow him a free shot.

I also grew up with the Ocean dub and never liked Kelamis, but that's subjective.

I agree, Schemmel captures that scene amazingly in my view. Even liking Nozawa's performance, I don't feel Schemmel has conveyed the wrong emotions for that "speech".

That was a terrible example to choose if you try to downplay Schemmel, as I felt that was a particularly powerful moment for his Goku.

Honestly...Schemmel IS Goku to me. As much as Nozawa is, so is Schemmel. What started as a brand new actor giving an imitation of a past performance to bad scripting, inappropriate music, and poor voice direction became an absolutely wonderful Goku that I can be proud to call my favorite performance of Goku with Nozawa herself. That's just a massive improvement. Kai fixed all those problems. The actors were now experienced, not mimicing old casts, dubbing to good scripts, to the music from the source, and all to rather good voice direction. It's a complete 180 from what DBZ's dub was. Really, no scene exemplified that more than "Goku's Speech":

DBZ: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPUvkfZiN9k

Kai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov0sx1-NrMg

It's just Night and Day.

Schemmel was never my first Goku, that would be Ian Corlett (whom I more enjoy now as Glitch Bob in Seasons 3 and 4 of Reboot). But, despite being the voice of Goku that replaced the ones I was familiar with in the endless repeats of DBZ on Toonami, he got better as we went on from the awful "Season 3", and I got the feeling that we could get a good dub if Funi would be willing to do it...but redubs are rare, so when Kai came along, it was hope, and that hope wasn't denied.

[90sDBZ]

Was the ocean dub unedited after they came back? Or did they still horribly edit the episodes, I can't remember.

It wasn't as edited as the Saban dub but was still more edited than Funi's edited TV dub. And instead of sticking with "Next dimension" they replaced every mention of "kill" with "hurt" or "destroy", even when it didn't make sense like when they wished back all the people that Cell absorbed by saying "Please heal all those hurt by Cell". Still at least they no longer merged episodes together.

[Fionordequester]

Still at least they no longer merged episodes together.

That was a bad thing? Because from what I see, even with the FUNI dub at it's absolute worst, I don't see "wow, the writing sucks! Wow, the musics sucks!" or anything like that. I see stuff like "Dragon Ball Z? More like Drag ON Ball Z!", and "so, how many DBZ characters are needed to screw in a light bulb? Only one, but it takes him 20 episodes to do it!".

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Was the ocean dub unedited after they came back? Or did they still horribly edit the episodes, I can't remember.

It wasn't as edited as the Saban dub but was still more edited than Funi's edited TV dub. And instead of sticking with "Next dimension" they replaced every mention of "kill" with "hurt" or "destroy", even when it didn't make sense like when they wished back all the people that Cell absorbed by saying "Please heal all those hurt by Cell". Still at least they no longer merged episodes together.

Ahh. Thanks for the info. I'm glad they got rid of that "next dimension" crap that was truly annoying.
Just wish there was a release for the dub (aside from RotD)

[90sDBZ]

Still at least they no longer merged episodes together.

That was a bad thing? Because from what I see, even with the FUNI dub at it's absolute worst, I don't see "wow, the writing sucks! Wow, the musics sucks!" or anything like that. I see stuff like "Dragon Ball Z? More like Drag ON Ball Z!", and "so, how many DBZ characters are needed to screw in a light bulb? Only one, but it takes him 20 episodes to do it!".

Apart from the early Namek episodes the pacing of DBZ never bothered me all that much. And I'd never heard it being referred to as "Drag ON Ball Z" before joining this forum. Sure you see casual comments that mention the pacing but I get the impression that most fans who watched the Funi and Westwood dubs weren't bothered by it. And the Saban dub would sometimes take out cool parts of fight scenes just so they could end the episode when they wanted to. Besides we now have Kai for a condensed version.

[Dalesy]

I'd have to agree that Schemmel's Goku feels way too heroic. Even if Goku is cocky at that point on Namek, Schemmel's inflection while delivering the speech sort of slips back into the "Hope of the Universe" style of delivery that I hate his original portrayal for.

On that note: Last night I was watching Battle of Gods with two friends who have very limited exposure to the Japanese cast. After the movie ended, one of them immediately commented that "Goku's American actor makes him sound too heroic." And that's coming from someone who has watched maybe 2 episodes in Japanese and doesn't even care for Masako Nozawa.

[Ringworm128]

And I'd say a newcomer to the series with no prior experience with the English dub thinking English Kai dub Goku doesn't sound right counts for far more than " someone who is a fan of both the Funimation dub and the original", who presumably (correct me if I'm wrong) grew up on the English dub of Z and had that voice imprinted on their brain as "how Goku sounds" long before they saw the original thinking he does fit in the role.

No I've only been watching the series for a few years and I've been watching DB subbed almost as long as I've been watching it dubbed.

And couldn't I assume the same about you? You've been waching Nozawa (or whoevers Goku you watch the most) for that long that you've closed your mind off to any other way of playing Goku?

[Blade]

I'd have to agree that Schemmel's Goku feels way too heroic.

But that's not Schemmel's Goku, that's Funimation Production's English adaptation of Goku. Heroism is a theme that young Western audiences identify strongly with, and the traditional white American hero is a well worn formula. Adapting Goku to take on recognisable traits of heroism was a deliberate ploy to captivate the American viewership, and as can be proved by the sheer number of times Goku's 'Hope of the Universe' speech has been quoted by Western fans - it worked.

[Dalesy]

I'd have to agree that Schemmel's Goku feels way too heroic.

But that's not Schemmel's Goku, that's Funimation Production's English adaptation of Goku. Heroism is a theme that young Western audiences identify strongly with, and the traditional white American hero is a well worn formula. Adapting Goku to take on recognisable traits of heroism was a deliberate ploy to captivate the American viewership, and as can be proved by the sheer number of times Goku's 'Hope of the Universe' speech has been quoted by Western fans - it worked.

Right, but the friend who said this also has familiarity with Kai and the more recent video games, as do I. It's not just Funimation's over the top original production that I take issue with. It's his portrayal as a whole. The script was pretty accurate in Kai, but the tone of voice still gave that tinge of over-the-top heroism that should have been entirely erased.

[Ringworm128]

I've never seen Dubku as a over heroic character. Apart from some of his speaches Goku in the dub was more of a "nicest guy in the world" character. He was more like Ned Flanders pre Flanderization.

[90sDBZ]

I've never seen Dubku as a over heroic character. Apart from some of his speaches Goku in the dub was more of a "nicest guy in the world" character. He was more like Ned Flanders pre Flanderization.

I've never thought he was overly heroic either aside from those speeches. He's more of a loveable goofball than anything. And I don't understand how people can think he sounds like Superman. Whether we're talking about Superman TAS or the Christopher Reeve movies Sean's Goku voice sounds absolutely nothing like him. And I also disagree with people who say Sean's Goku sounds too "manly". He often screams in a high-pitched voice and sounds like a manchild which feels appropriate for the character. And when he finds out he's got a strong opponent he appropriately sounds like a kid in a candy store who can't contain their excitement. He's the only English Goku who's truly convincing at both his goofy and angry side.

[Ajay]

UPDATED
See page 1.

[Dalesy]

I love the summary of her thoughts

Also it's a pleasant surprise that she's really putting so much thought into the series. I know that even now, I don't think this much about what I'm seeing while I'm seeing it.

[Kid Buu]

I'm in two minds with Kai's dub.

On one hand, it's a pretty well acted and faithfully translated version of the show. On the other, it still retains many of the same issues the original had; my primary issue being the exaggerated voices. And by that, I mean my issue is with Chris Sabat. He's improved but it's the jarring difference between Horikawa and Furikawa's performances compared to his that really make it difficult for me to watch.

I'm not going to damn anyone for enjoying Kai's dub like I do with Z's but it's certainly no touch on the original.

I agree; no offense to the man personally but I've never been a fan of Sabat. Even his Kuwabara in YYH used to bother me.

[Insertclevername]

I'm excited for her reaction to the late Cell and early Boo arcs since she seems to love Gohan so much. The Boo is really where his character develops into his own.